Doe's God Destroy The Sole ???

[amadeus]

Romans 8 denies conditional salvation.

Some try to cite OT versus to prove conditional salvation. But that is a false argument. Christ move things from being justified to being saved. A huge change.

The Bible does not contradict itself. So you have to be able to explain how a different claim does not violate Romans 8.

Argue your case with someone else. On this point I see why people believe that way but my own position is seen by me in not one verse or one chapter but the whole of the scriptures. Only God gives the increase!

 

[CoreIssue]

@Deborah_ was right that that particular passage is actually about the church, not individuals.

But about your question, you won't find it in scripture because it's not there. There is no reference to suicide specifically in scripture, aside from the case of Judas, which we were discussing the other day (see my Posts #117, 123, 124 especially, and Stranger's comment at Post #138).
The Devil's Lies Must be Exposed - Do Not Be Deceived

I do not favor Christians teaching that people can commit suicide and go to Heaven. I believe it is taking one's life into one's own hands, and scripture states explicitly that our lives do not belong to us but to God (1 Corinthians 6:19-20). Many of the great figures of the Bible faced overwhelming depressions, and even wished they had never even been born. King David, (Psalm 13:2-4), the prophet Jeremiah, (Jeremiah 20:14-18), and Job, (Job 7:15-16) among others, all reached points where they despaired of their very lives. But they persevered nevertheless without killing themselves, never daring to take such matters into their own hands out of respect for the God who created them and whom they served.

Though it may offend some (and NO CoreIssue, I am not into discussing this), I believe the incredible depressions people suffer under that motivate them to commit suicide are the result of the influence of demonic spirits, and I therefore consider it irresponsible for Christians to excuse it. These same spirits of depression have the right to their souls after death if they gave themselves to obedience to them instead of God (2 Peter 2:19; Romans 6:16, "for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage."). I don't judge those who have done so, and I of course hold out hope. But I do not excuse it by assuring people they will go to Heaven if they take their own lives. There is too much in scripture that suggests they will not, rather than that they will.

Blessings in Christ,
Hidden in Him

No I'm not interested in debating you either. But you did use my name, so I will make my comments and then let it go you let it go.

Romans 8 is clearly OSAS. There's not a single verse in the Bible that teaches conditional salvation.

I fully understand that some reading archaic English in the KJV think there are. But that would say the Bible contradicts itself, which it does not.

 

[CoreIssue]

Argue your case with someone else. On this point I see why people believe that way but my own position is seen by me in not one verse or one chapter but the whole of the scriptures. Only God gives the increase!

I wasn't arguing with you, I was disagreeing with you.

I agree the whole Scriptures is what we need to study.

But the fact remains, the Bible never contradicts itself.

 

[Episkopos]

Doe's 1st Corinithians 3:16-17, mean that if a Christian takes their own life, God Will destroy their sole?

Just for the Halibut?

 

[Taken]

I have always felt kind of disappointed in this, as I love the water...

From a natural perspective...
The Seas, divide people.
The Seas, have provided food and pleasure for people.
The Seas have become polluted, corrupt.

From a spiritual perspective.
No Seas, no division.
No Seas, no fish-ies to eat.
No animals eaten.

A restored man on A NEW earth...no men eating of food provided on the OLD Earth...eating, fish and land animals, which are then in harmony with mankind.
A pure River, (humm, you will see Water!!), pure, uncorrupted Water.
You will have fruit, from 12 different trees...to gobble up....Like Fruit we have now, tangible, digests in stomach juice? No. Fruit from the "trees" which are the "teachers" of God, as there will be "always" more to learn in the day of the New Earth.


Rev 22

1. [1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2. [2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[Marymog]

Doe's 1st Corinithians 3:16-17, mean that if a Christian takes their own life, God Will destroy their sole?

My shoes eventually wear out. I don't think God had anything to do with it.....

 

[Marymog]

Doe's 1st Corinithians 3:16-17, mean that if a Christian takes their own life, God Will destroy their sole?

How does Hebrews 13:17 relate to your question?

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

Welcome to the forum.
May God Bless you abundantly.

A persons bodily death is inevitable.
IF the person was Saved; his soul is saved.
If the person was Not Saved; his soul will eventually be destroyed.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

Hi Taken.

Can you define the word "destroyed" when using it in this context?

It seems either our soul is in heaven or hell. It doesn't get "destroyed". To destroy something is to make it no longer be or put an end to it's existence.

Mary

 

[Nancy]

From a natural perspective...
The Seas, divide people.
The Seas, have provided food and pleasure for people.
The Seas have become polluted, corrupt.

From a spiritual perspective.
No Seas, no division.
No Seas, no fish-ies to eat.
No animals eaten.

A restored man on A NEW earth...no men eating of food provided on the OLD Earth...eating, fish and land animals, which are then in harmony with mankind.
A pure River, (humm, you will see Water!!), pure, uncorrupted Water.
You will have fruit, from 12 different trees...to gobble up....Like Fruit we have now, tangible, digests in stomach juice? No. Fruit from the "trees" which are the "teachers" of God, as there will be "always" more to learn in the day of the New Earth.


Rev 22

1. [1] And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2. [2] In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

Awesome, how could I forget the pure river and the trees with a different "fruit" each month!!!! Thanks for all the great reminders ♥
One question about the healing leaves...will there be a need for healing at that time? This has always made me wonder.

 

[Taken]

Hi Taken.

Can you define the word "destroyed" when using it in this context?

It seems either our soul is in heaven or hell. It doesn't get "destroyed". To destroy something is to make it no longer be or put an end to it's existence.

Mary

Destroy may mean to some TO MAKE the thing....Like "uncreated".

Destroy is simply to CHANGE something FROM what it APPEARED AS, so that it APPEARS as something else.

The Earth has already experienced "one Destruction" in the Flood.

The Earth shall experience "another Distriction" by Fire.

Some may take that "Distruction" to mean, like "uncreating" the Earth, or that it will no longer exist.

The Earth IS Everlasting. However the "condition" of the Earth, WILL CHANGE.

The Earth was once "WASHED" with water.
The Earth will be "PURIFIED" with fire.

Then shall ALL the corruption, and corrupt things men have established and built and polluted upon the earth, shall be but rubble, and ash.

The SAME effect, is taught and prepared for the inhabitants of the Earth....mankind and fallen angels who are temporarily occupying the earth as their secondary estate (having lost their first estate, ie Heaven).

There is another place, prepared for fallen Angels, and the souls and bodies of men, who have rejected thee Lord God.

It is NOT in heaven, it is NOT on the earth, is is NOT in the clouds, it is NOT in the firmament, between Heaven and Earth....

It IS "IN the center of the Earth", ie simply called Hell.

The body's of men, (without a Born again spirit) and souls of that body, shall have life from Gods breath departed out of that body and soul...and that body and soul...shall be destroyed, burned, turned to ash, and utter darkness, in the lake of fire...

Now "are they Uncreated", no they are turned to ash, and no longer recognizable in the likeness of a body and soul, that they once were...and there they shall be remembered no more.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

 

[CoreIssue]

Destroy may mean to some TO MAKE the thing....Like "uncreated".

Destroy is simply to CHANGE something FROM what it APPEARED AS, so that it APPEARS as something else.

The Earth has already experienced "one Destruction" in the Flood.

The Earth shall experience "another Distriction" by Fire.

Some may take that "Distruction" to mean, like "uncreating" the Earth, or that it will no longer exist.

The Earth IS Everlasting. However the "condition" of the Earth, WILL CHANGE.

The Earth was once "WASHED" with water.
The Earth will be "PURIFIED" with fire.

Then shall ALL the corruption, and corrupt things men have established and built and polluted upon the earth, shall be but rubble, and ash.

The SAME effect, is taught and prepared for the inhabitants of the Earth....mankind and fallen angels who are temporarily occupying the earth as their secondary estate (having lost their first estate, ie Heaven).

There is another place, prepared for fallen Angels, and the souls and bodies of men, who have rejected thee Lord God.

It is NOT in heaven, it is NOT on the earth, is is NOT in the clouds, it is NOT in the firmament, between Heaven and Earth....

It IS "IN the center of the Earth", ie simply called Hell.

The body's of men, (without a Born again spirit) and souls of that body, shall have life from Gods breath departed out of that body and soul...and that body and soul...shall be destroyed, burned, turned to ash, and utter darkness, in the lake of fire...

Now "are they Uncreated", no they are turned to ash, and no longer recognizable in the likeness of a body and soul, that they once were...and there they shall be remembered no more.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

Instead of using uncreated, which would mean to return to a nonexistent state, I think disassembled, decomposed, our torn apart were similar is a better fit. .

 

[Marymog]

Destroy may mean to some TO MAKE the thing....Like "uncreated".

Destroy is simply to CHANGE something FROM what it APPEARED AS, so that it APPEARS as something else.

The Earth has already experienced "one Destruction" in the Flood.

The Earth shall experience "another Distriction" by Fire.

Some may take that "Distruction" to mean, like "uncreating" the Earth, or that it will no longer exist.

The Earth IS Everlasting. However the "condition" of the Earth, WILL CHANGE.

The Earth was once "WASHED" with water.
The Earth will be "PURIFIED" with fire.

Then shall ALL the corruption, and corrupt things men have established and built and polluted upon the earth, shall be but rubble, and ash.

The SAME effect, is taught and prepared for the inhabitants of the Earth....mankind and fallen angels who are temporarily occupying the earth as their secondary estate (having lost their first estate, ie Heaven).

There is another place, prepared for fallen Angels, and the souls and bodies of men, who have rejected thee Lord God.

It is NOT in heaven, it is NOT on the earth, is is NOT in the clouds, it is NOT in the firmament, between Heaven and Earth....

It IS "IN the center of the Earth", ie simply called Hell.

The body's of men, (without a Born again spirit) and souls of that body, shall have life from Gods breath departed out of that body and soul...and that body and soul...shall be destroyed, burned, turned to ash, and utter darkness, in the lake of fire...

Now "are they Uncreated", no they are turned to ash, and no longer recognizable in the likeness of a body and soul, that they once were...and there they shall be remembered no more.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

Thank you and merry Christmas to you.

Mary

 

[Taken]

Awesome, how could I forget the pure river and the trees with a different "fruit" each month!!!! Thanks for all the great reminders ♥
One question about the healing leaves...will there be a need for healing at that time? This has always made me wonder.

The river of Life...is the Constant reminder of the Ever presence of the Lord God who IS Life.

The 12 Fruit Trees are the Constant reminder of the 12 Tribes and those within the Tribes who remained Constant forever with God.

The Branches reveal the Gifts the Lord sent forth out into the World, His Word, spread spread, spreading...Salvation for ALL men.. beyond the Jews.

The Leaves: Read closely about the Leaves...
"WERE"... I believe the Leaves, are the actual men WHO, participated in Spreading the Word of God...for Healing the Nations....(ie ongoing, until the last day, ie end of millennium, and the Earth renewed...the Heavens renewed, the firmament separating the heavens and earth opened, and Heaven and Earth ajoined. )

Saying, their work done, during their time On Earth, but remembered in Gods Kingdom, as being Connected to the branch (who is Jesus).

As Hell will maintain reminders of the fallen..(not people), but fallen angels....of the rising smoke...a new earth will have reminders of God, Christ Jesus, The Faithful Hebrew/Jews and The Faithful Gentiles.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas
Taken

 

[Taken]

Marymog ~

Should have included this scripture to you.
FEAR of the Lord God, is the Beginning of Faith.
When a man has become Converted...he is NOT in FEAR of His Lord God....he is a Friend and Brother of Jesus....and a son of God.

That same Converted man should have no fear of other men...who MAY kill their body...but can never kill their soul or spirit.

The Destruction of a mans body and soul, is reserved, for the man who Rejected God, knew of Christ Jesus, and Rejected Him also, and physically died, NEVER having Confessed Belief in God or Christ Jesus.
They will have no part in occupying the re-Newed Earth.

Matt 10: [28] And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able todestroy both soul and body in hell.

Thank you for the Christmas greeting.
God Bless,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

"The Leaves: Read closely about the Leaves...
"WERE"
I can see this as an ongoing happening...interesting take you have on the leaves.
Lot's to chew on in your post and, it is not that I am lazy minded because of not responding line per line...as of late, my mind is very overwhelmed with some very big changes so, forgive me for not responding better. But! Thank you for your very full and well though out response, it makes me think

 

[Taken]

Instead of using uncreated, which would mean to return to a nonexistent state, I think disassembled, decomposed, our torn apart were similar is a better fit. .

Ya, that's a tough one to put into words, since multiple people can view that as multiple things....non-existent, vanished, whatever.

The fact is, Everything God "created", remains created....and simply changes in its visible and invisible Form.

Gold, Diamonds, Rock bolders, dirt, men...whatever...no matter how they are hidden, found, polished, reformed, molded, built, knocked down, crushed, burned, turned to ash...they still exist. Maybe not recognizable because the matter has changed, become a different form...

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

Destroy may mean to some TO MAKE the thing....Like "uncreated".

Destroy is simply to CHANGE something FROM what it APPEARED AS, so that it APPEARS as something else.

The Earth has already experienced "one Destruction" in the Flood.

The Earth shall experience "another Distriction" by Fire.

Some may take that "Distruction" to mean, like "uncreating" the Earth, or that it will no longer exist.

The Earth IS Everlasting. However the "condition" of the Earth, WILL CHANGE.

The Earth was once "WASHED" with water.
The Earth will be "PURIFIED" with fire.

Then shall ALL the corruption, and corrupt things men have established and built and polluted upon the earth, shall be but rubble, and ash.

The SAME effect, is taught and prepared for the inhabitants of the Earth....mankind and fallen angels who are temporarily occupying the earth as their secondary estate (having lost their first estate, ie Heaven).

There is another place, prepared for fallen Angels, and the souls and bodies of men, who have rejected thee Lord God.

It is NOT in heaven, it is NOT on the earth, is is NOT in the clouds, it is NOT in the firmament, between Heaven and Earth....

It IS "IN the center of the Earth", ie simply called Hell.

The body's of men, (without a Born again spirit) and souls of that body, shall have life from Gods breath departed out of that body and soul...and that body and soul...shall be destroyed, burned, turned to ash, and utter darkness, in the lake of fire...

Now "are they Uncreated", no they are turned to ash, and no longer recognizable in the likeness of a body and soul, that they once were...and there they shall be remembered no more.

God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken

Maybe the "destruction" of the earth would bring everything right back to: THE BEGINNING? "...the earth was without form, and void..."

"IN the center of the Earth"...
Agreed.

"The SAME effect, is taught and prepared for the inhabitants of the Earth....mankind and fallen angels who are temporarily occupying the earth as their secondary estate (having lost their first estate, ie Heaven).

Would you consider these fallen angels, on this Earth, demons?

 

[Taken]

"The Leaves: Read closely about the Leaves...
"WERE"
I can see this as an ongoing happening...interesting take you have on the leaves.
Lot's to chew on in your post and, it is not that I am lazy minded because of not responding line per line...as of late, my mind is very overwhelmed with some very big changes so, forgive me for not responding better. But! Thank you for your very full and well though out response, it makes me think

Friend, I think about you, and hope all is well, also knowing we get loaded up with multiple things that need our attention, and get overwhelmed with seeing our plate full.

You respond in a most excellent way, and I have no issues whatsoever about that.

Pick out each thing on your plate, pray about it...and wait. When you require the need for the answer, the Lord will provide....regardless if we think, everthing should have been resolved yesterday! Ha!

God Bless you abundantly,
Merry christmas,
Taken

 

[Nancy]

Friend, I think about you, and hope all is well, also knowing we get loaded up with multiple things that need our attention, and get overwhelmed with seeing our plate full.

You respond in a most excellent way, and I have no issues whatsoever about that.

Pick out each thing on your plate, pray about it...and wait. When you require the need for the answer, the Lord will provide....regardless if we think, everthing should have been resolved yesterday! Ha!

God Bless you abundantly,
Merry christmas,
Taken

Why thank you for your kind words.
"....regardless if we think, everthing should have been resolved yesterday! Ha! " <---Awesome ♥

 

[CoreIssue]

Ya, that's a tough one to put into words, since multiple people can view that as multiple things....non-existent, vanished, whatever.

The fact is, Everything God "created", remains created....and simply changes in its visible and invisible Form.

Gold, Diamonds, Rock bolders, dirt, men...whatever...no matter how they are hidden, found, polished, reformed, molded, built, knocked down, crushed, burned, turned to ash...they still exist. Maybe not recognizable because the matter has changed, become a different form...

Glory to God,
Taken

I agree. But remember created is only used in Genesis 1:1.