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Engraven Spiritual Death

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Behold, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Lets find out exactly what is : spiritual death.

    Look at this verse...

    """But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones,"""......

    Notice.....this specific death is "engraven in stones"....or in other words.....written in stone.

    So, what is that? ???
    Thats God's Moral Law, = The 10 Commandments.
    Isn't that interesting?
    It is... because its amazing that the very morality of God = IS the enemy of our behavior, in our natural state......our fallen nature..
    Here is the dichotomy.... On one hand, God's Morality is pure and lovely and holy, but its this very holiness as the Commandments themselves, that brings DEATH to your Spirit......
    Or as Paul said, it will deceive you and slay you..
    Here he is talking about the 10 commandments , God's Moral Law, that are engraven in stone, that are "DEATH"....... Spiritual Death to a human being's Spirit.

    We , as the "Adamic nature", prior to being born again, ....are "fallen".
    Well, to fall means you had a status, were at a level and left it, or fell from it..
    So, that is Adam and Eve....They had holiness, they were righteous, they were like God's Righteousness, and they FELL from this spiritual position, and this "fallen spiritual state" was passed to you and me.
    God, as Jesus THE Christ, came here, to restore you to that original Righteousness, as a "GIFT".
    This is Salvation...

    Now.... notice what happens when the Commandments are 1st given..
    You have Moses, you have the people, you have the 10 Commandments.. 'engraven in Stones".
    And what happens when this that is "engraven in stone" that IS God's Moral Law comes to humans?
    Your Bible says that 3000 DIED.. as soon as the Commandments were upon them..
    See that? That is this verse..... "But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones"".
    See what the 10 Commandments "ministered" to the people? = 3000 DIED.
    That very moral law, those very 10 commandments, as soon as they show up, you have 3000 die that day..
    That is the effect of GOD's MORAL LAW = and the dominion that is brings to a human who is Spiritually fallen.
    Its DEATH.......to us.

    So what is the cure?
    What is the rescue? What is the ANSWER?
    A.) Jesus is the WAY = OUT. He is the WAY BACK. John 14:6

    Its this Reader........ Peter, in Act 2....preaching NOT the law, and not the 10 commandments, but the GRACE of God.......and what is the instant result?
    3000 are SAVED..

    Now do you see that?
    First you have the Commandments given = and 3000 die.
    Next you have the Cross Preached, and God's Grace offered, = and 3000 are saved..

    So what does this mean in practical terms regarding your spiritual understanding ?

    It means this......It means that if you are trying in your own power to keep those Commandments, they will cause you to fail....to fall.
    They will bring a spiritual dominion over you that is not GRACE, but is Legalism, and that power will cause you to sin and live a life of Christian Failure, which is sinning and repenting as your Christianity.
    That's a FAIL.
    Is that you?

    So, what Spiritually SLAYS the unbeliever, also ruins the Believer's Discipleship if you try in your own will and by your own power to obey.
    Striving to BE Righteous is how you fail to be righteous.
    Most are failing, and most Denominations preach and teach you to be this very born gain discipleship = failure.

    So Then.. what is the purpose of God's "engraven in Stone"?
    Galatians 3:24,25.
    Its to bring you to God's Grace, so that you stop living in self righteousness and turn completely to the Grace of God and EXIST there in your mind and in your heart and in your Faith. No longer struggling to FAIL to be good, but instead understanding that God's Righteousness has become yours as "the gift of Righteousness".
    And once you SEE this, once you have this LIGHT, then your discipleship turns from striving to be good and failing, because you have learned to exist in the Peace of God who has made you righteous.......which is none of you.....but its "the GIFT of Righteousness".."The Gift of Salvation".
    When you can SEE this, when this LIGHT has been revealed inside you, regarding your Spiritual Eyes and your Spiritual Understanding, then this is RIGHT BELIEVING.

    TO Exist there in your heart and in your head, is Right Believing = and this is how you escape the struggle with what is "engraven death", = having truly found your RESTING PLACE in God's Grace.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    God told them to write the laws on their hands and as frontlets between the eyes so they would not forget what God requires from man to follow Him.
    God gave Adam a commandment.. Do not eat. They Ate. They Died.. spiritually.
    This breaking of the commandments seperates us from God.
    When we find Jesus, and we confess our "breaking the laws" sins, By his Grace and Forgiveness are we saved.

    These same laws which were written on stone, because this people was very stubborn and backsliding, he made them wear on them bodily.
    They still do today.
    God told us that His laws are already engraved in our hearts and minds, but they couldn't see their own sin.
    They were very good with finding fault with others, but were self-righteous in their own eyes.

    Jesus Himself explained it this way. And He is the greatest Teacher ever known. Let's hear from the Lord Himself.

    Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
    Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
    Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
    Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Mat 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
    Mat 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
    Mat 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

    I didn't hear however, Forgot everything God told you to do and just follow me. Nope, He never said that.
    However He did make it clear that just obeying the law by not physically harming others, wasn't enough.
    It was much deeper and much more spiritual than the Law which was written in stone.

    Example:
    Stone:
    Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

    Heart:
    Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    Stone:
    Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

    Heart:
    Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

    This law is a lot more difficult because you have to check yourself at the door before you actually commit the sin.
    But the harder it is, and it is hard to stop those thoughts from entering into your heart and mind..
    The harder it is, the more Grace God supplies us to overcome those very thoughts from enetering.
    And if they do, and we recognize the law in our hearts and minds telling us something is wrong.. don't do it..
    And if we confess and don't give those thoughts any power to manifest themselves in the flesh by acting on them,
    We know and have confidence that By the Grace of God and His Mercy, He won't hold those thoughts against us.

    Sin leads to death.. it seperates us from God.
    By recognizing the warnings and stops signs that prevent one from sinning,
    is what the purpose of the Law is.

    STOP!
    Don't DO IT!
    Turn Around!
    Clean your mind!
    REPENT!

    Nobody likes laws..
    Nobody likes listening to their parents either..
    We live in God's House. God made rules for us to live by.
    If you don't want to live by God's rules...
    Pack your bags and find your own house.

    This is not a personal reply to you Behold.
    This is my reply in General.

    Thank You!
    HUGS
     
  3. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The law of the Lord is written on the hearts and in the minds of believers according to the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10).

    It is not that we obtain righteousness by attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts...

    No; we obtain righteousness by placing our faith in Jesus Christ...so He gives us the Spirit (Galatians 3:14).

    As we bear the fruit of the Spirit, there is no law that will condemn our behaviour (Galatians 5:22-23); because bearing the fruit of the Spirit is something that does not violate the law of the Lord.

    We have a righteousness of the Lord which is apart from the law, that is nevertheless attested to by the law and the prophets (Romans 3:21), that it is righteousness indeed.

    So then, the avenue by which we obtain this righteousness (of becoming law-abiding citizens of God's kingdom) is not through our attempts at obeying the law.

    It is through walking according to the Spirit rather than the flesh (Philippians 3:9, Romans 8:4).

    I would say that the result is the same...that you have a righteousness that is attested to by the law and the prophets...

    Except the result is not the same. Those who attempt to obtain this righteousness through law-keeping (through attempting to obey a set of do's and don'ts) will always fail to meet that standard (Galatians 6:13).

    But those who seek to be obedient to the Spirit of the Lord will be obedient and will not violate the standard because they are bearing the fruit of the Spirit.

    We are not any longer bound by the letter as believers in Christ...however, we will be obedient to the spirit of what is written.

    In the case of situational ethics...we will, by the Holy Spirit, always choose the lesser of two evils or the greater of two goods if one is in conflict with the other.

    As in the case of Corrie Ten Boom, who lied to the Nazis in order to preserve human life...she chose the principle of love over the principle of truth and turned out to be right.

    We have been delivered from the letter of the law in order that we might be able to be obedient to the spirit of what is written (Romans 7:6).

    Even as our Lord said to the Pharisees that they needed to judge righteous judgment when He healed a man on the sabbath day...citing the fact that men were circumcised the eighth day (though it be the sabbath) in order that the law of Moses might not be broken...and that He was in fact obeying the law of Moses in pulling a man "out of a pit" on the sabbath day by healing him (for how much better is a man than a sheep?) although He did truly violate the letter of the sabbath law which said that you shall not do any work on the sabbath day (Exodus 20:10)...nevertheless our Lord was taking the whole of the law of Moses into account.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Are you addressing Christians here? "DEATH to your Spirit"?

    1. All humans beings are spiritually dead before they are born again. The Commandments do not make them "deader".

    2. All sinners understand that the Ten Commandments are a death sentence to all, since the whole world is guilty before God. Thus they are convicted.

    3. When they hear the Gospel, they also hear that Christ took that death sentence upon Himself, so that God could offer the gift of eternal life freely to all. Thus they are convinced.

    4. Those who repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ receive the gift of the Holy Spirit (which includes the gift of eternal life).

    5. Those who receive the gift of eternal life DO NOT face eternal or spiritual death.

    You are trying to unnecessarily complicate Gospel truth. Which means that you will be held accountable for trying to MISLEAD people.
     
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Democrats are convinced Joe Biden is President too..

    The gift of Eternal life is to Know God.
    There a lot of kids out there who know God a lot better than the adults do..
    Just saying..
    HUGS
     
  6. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    God gives us more then His Spirit. He gives us His Righteousness..."The Gift of Righteousness"
    The is why the born again are Righteous. Its because God's Righteousness has become them, its become US.....it's who we are "in Christ'.
    God's Righteousness, that is imputed, charged to us, and seal unto us, never leaves us.
    We never stop having this God given Gift of Righteousness, but, wrong believing will convince a person that their God given righteousness is only going to last as long as they are Good.
    This is the Carnal Christian mind and how it thinks.

    Also, there is no law that can condemn you, if you are born again because Jesus has already been condemned and slain in your place.
    But what can happen, is that if you are not resting in God's Grace, by Right Believing..... having ceased to try to please God by effort,..... then you are putting yourself under bondage to a mindset that is not in agreement with Grace and has "fallen" from Grace.

    = This type carnal believer will be trying to stay saved. And they will confessing and committing works of the flesh as their idea of "christianity".
    This person's MIND is VEILED by the Law, which is caused by the Devil's deception. He is the mind blinder.
    This deceived person will teach that : "well, what you do is sin, then you run to 1st John and confess it, then you go and sin more, then run back to 1st John and confess more and more and more ......>".
    So, that is how their broken Christianity actually looks when you hear them talk about their actual failed discipleship of sinning and confessing.
     
  7. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    And you'll again be held accountable for being dishonest.
    Nothing new.

    Here is the reality.
    My Thread is not complicated, so, that you find it complicated and used a quote with no Context given..., vs, being able to actually discern the Thread, is your issue, not mine.
    My Thread offers the person who is Legalistic, who is chasing commandment keeping, who is trying to keep themselves saved, a way to SEE the distinction between the damning effect of God's Moral Law, vs the Saving effect of God's Grace.
     
  8. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    The righteousness of the Lord is not only imputed and positional; it is imparted and practical (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

    And yes, we are told to continue in His goodness, lest we be cut off from the olive tree as a branch (Romans 11:20-22).
     
  9. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    Again you try to use a non literal verse, a symbolic verse, to deny God's Grace.

    You again are misusing and abusing God's Grace with Symbolic verses, trying to prove that self righteousness is how YOU stay saved.

    Try to understand that SYMBOLIC verses are not to be used as LITERAL DOCTRINE, especially when you are talking about THE GIFT of Salvation.

    You continue to change the GIFT into a person's SELF EFFORT by twisting symbolic verses into your self righteousness.

    This denies the Cross.
    Dont do that.
     
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  10. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    My continuing in His goodness has nothing to do with self-effort and everything to do with my relationship with Christ as a branch connected to and abiding in the vine.
     
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  11. Behold

    Behold Well-Known Member

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    You believe that if you stop the self effort of abiding (good works) you are lost.
    That is the theology of the Legalist.
    = "my self effort of abiding by my LIFESTYLE = i get to keep myself saved".

    That's legalism.
     
  12. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

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    Real abiding has nothing to do with self-effort.

    It is a relationship of being connected to Jesus Christ; drawing up nourishment from the vine.
     
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