Entire Sanctification = "In Christ"

[marks]

We've been made the righteousness of Christ, yes....this is in our renewed inner man (why we delight in the law of God after the inner man) But there is a conflict with the old/outer man and this is the area where we need to overcome.

I think the question is, how exactly do we overcome?

For me - my life isn't easy, my inner battles are deep and ugly - I find the power to overcome in the truth of my reconciliation to God. I'm reconciled to God in Christ Jesus, and though I am changeable He is not, and His priesthood is based on an everlasting life, and He ever lives to make intercession for me. And therefore I am fully and completely "saved".

Knowing that God is with me, for He has promised, I will never leave you nor forsake you, knowing that He loves me, that He is active in my life controlling all those things that I cannot, to make them work for my good, knowing these things frees me to not regard sins committed, to joy in His forgiveness. It frees me to look to Him to make those changes in me that I struggle to make, and fail, in my own efforts.

When I stop trying to be better so that God will be OK with me I find myself getting better without effort. Knowing that He will transform me - the surety of my salvation - I find the purity of heart that I seek.

If I'm trying to control my bad thinking and bad behavior so that I can be OK with God, then I'm trying to use my own efforts to attain to what Christ accomplished in His death and resurrection. And that's not a spirit endeavor, it's fleshy, lacking faith in Christ, that He in fact reconciled us.

And once we've taken up fleshy thinking, we need to stop, and get back to spiritual thinking. Trusting in Christ.

And I'm not saying we aren't to do what the Bible tells us all to do. Be holy as I am holy, that's the command I yearn to keep in all my being! But I don't find holiness something I can try to be and then just do. I only seem to find holiness when I'm, well, cuddled up to God in His loving arms. It's like the flesh can't follow there.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

You are the sole exegete on the Pauline epistles and you are, as I have expected, deflecting, refusing to answer a very simple question-what is an Imperative,

Listen.

I dont care about your Koine Greek, fascination.

I have a HOLY BIBLE..................i'll stay there...............Thx.

You are too obsessed on "imperatives".

You have this strange idea that if someone is giving God and Christ some Credit for what they've done, you feel triggered to run to the Thread and post your cut and past REDUNDANT, annoying, LEGALISM.

All you have to do, is post that on your THrEAD.
Do not jam up mine with that TOPIC< as this Thread is about GOD's GRACE.

 

[Johann]

I would respond to this that in what @Behold is describing is how we are able to do as those imperatives tell us.

And the question to ask is, what is the result for the child of God who fails to keep all of those imperatives? If the result is condemnation and loss of salvation, then salvation is in the cross of Christ and in the keeping of those imperatives. If either were to fail then all is lost. And who among us keeps all the imperatives at all times?

Be ye holy, as He is holy, one or one thousand, if that is the one, we all fall short, as I see it.

Is salvation found in our having the right sort of dour demeanor over our failings? I believe we are saved in the cross of Christ, His death, His resurrection, and we are along for the ride. We contribute nothing. We believe, we receive.

How much we benefit, in this world and the next, depends to a certain extent on how committed we are, how much we are willing to sacrifice, how much we are willing to suffer for the sake of righteousness.

Much love!

Here is the thing-we can talk about the Scriptures day in and day out but if we don't put into practice of what stands written-our faith is dead and barren.

I don't endorse what @Behold is teaching, simple as that, and I don't accept your answer, it is all about obedience to what stands written, and we are not sponges "soaking it all up" without an outlet.
Shalom
Johann.

 

[Behold]

And once we've taken up fleshy thinking, we need to stop, and get back to spiritual thinking. Trusting in Christ.

1.) Salvation is God created and Jesus finished.

"roll credits"
"the end"

This is the : Gift of Salvation.

This is : The Cross of Christ.

2.) Discipleship, is what we do, that God spiritually empowers, because we already have Salvation.

The issue with the "its all about works" person, is that they cannot understand that Salvation is not Discipleship.

Thats the issue.
Just that.
That critical distinction eludes their revelation knowledge and their comprehension, until they can SEE IT.
Most are saved all their lives and never see it.
Never.

Self Righteousness, blinds them so that they can't see it.

They see it as ONE, and that is why they are working on it, and talk about working on it, and never do they see Salvation, theirs, as The FINISHED work of Jesus on the Cross..

Or as Jesus said from the Cross..............>"IT, (Salvation) is finished".

 

[marks]

but if we don't put into practice of what stands written-our faith is dead and barren.

Do you think there is someone here who is not doing that?

But I don't want to intrude on Behold's thread, so a different one if you wish . . .

Much love!

 

[Johann]

Do you think there is someone here who is not doing that?

But I don't want to intrude on Behold's thread, so a different one if you wish . . .

Much love!

Not interested-no offense.
Johann.

 

[Behold]

Here is the thing-we can talk about the Scriptures day in and day out but if we don't put into practice of what stands written-our faith is dead and barren.

Am i on your Thread?

No, you are AGAIN, on my "work"

Im proven.
I do more WORK on this Forum, then anyone ever has, or ever will.............already.
Why?
Because its my duty to God and to these members to push them, and teach them, and give to them my very best.

Its my "fruit". = here.

Check it out.
Im being honest.

So, when you judge me as that idea you have of not presenting Fruit, then you are apparently blind regarding who you are dealing with, on the Forum.

Step back, and take a better look, using Panoramic Eyes.

See the LIGHT.

 

[Lizbeth]

You have the conflict.

Listen, You are teaching the exact words of Episkopos. "outer man"..

His theology is Cross Denying, self invented, deception.

It's the flesh nature...our old man (where Paul said no good thing dwells) that needs to be put to death as it were, to be put under our and Christ's feet. The chastisments and breakings that we go through and why it is necessary.

(Epi doesn't equate old man with outer man, and neither do I agree with his take on the gift of righteousness - there is no need to deny what we have received in Christ.)

It seems (in my observation) that we need to learn righteousness (being tutored in the word/law) and this leads us to realize the inadequacy of flesh and self and this in turn leads us to look to Jesus for more of Him. In other words, we seem to follow the same pattern as Israel, our ensample - except with one important difference - that we have been made alive and made righteous in the inner man (in our heart/spirit) through Christ. After coming to faith we then have things to learn and to bring down to our experience. If I'm understanding her correctly, this is even Ritajanice's testimony.

But if I may put it this way, I think it is counterproductive and a mistake to deny the process of getting there. We sometimes are arguing from two opposite ends when the truth is really somewhere in the middle, or both at once maybe we could say...?

 

[Ritajanice]

I dont' disagree in principle. Walking in the spirit. But it's a battle to get there isn't it

Yes, I agree with this 100% @Lizbeth .

 

[Behold]

It's the flesh nature...our old man

LIsbeth.

"the old man of sin"..."the flesh nature" is CRUCIFIED with Christ."""""

Its DEAD..

Paul told you that ....

Paul told you to "reckon it dead", and you are not.. You are trying to resurrect it.
You have to stop doing that, or you will stay in "Episkopos world" of "trying to DO righteousness", instead of existing as "made righteous". "In Christ'". as your REAL Faith.

See. When you try to DO righteousness, you are "fallen from GRACE" and "in the Flesh", and that is why you STRUGGLE.

You are trying to manifest the power of the Spirit.............with your self effort.

That is.."Episkopos 101" ..... that is the error of Legalism.

A.) Make a spiritual and theological U-Turn.

 

[Ritajanice]

LIsbeth.

"the old man of sin"..."the flesh nature" is CRUCIFIED with Christ.

Its DEAD..

Paul told you to "reckon it dead", and you are not.. You are trying to resurrect it.
You have to stop doing that, or you will stay in "Episkopos world" of "trying to DO righteousness", instead of existing as "made righteous".

It just takes time to understand this ,Brother, it’s great that you are committed to teaching this, I Praise God that you do this, and very patiently so.

 

[marks]

I dont' disagree in principle. Walking in the spirit. But it's a battle to get there isn't it...I don't think anybody is "born" perfect and spiritually mature. And all those things you listed in your first sentence we are to do, nevertheless. We have our part....denying our self, taking up our cross....asking, seeking, knocking....acknowledging and repenting when we blow it...etc. Seems to me that even "Present your body a living sacrifice" is on our part. We're not passive in the process of seeking God and wanting to be found pleasing to Him. We are to "labour to enter His rest"....kind of a paradox with these things.

Everything you say here I agree with fully. Just the same, understanding that condemnation is off the table for the child of God changed everything for me. And when I labor in my heart to cast away doubt, and to trust in Jesus having reconciled me to God, to rest in that truth, that is when the struggle stops, peace enters, and I overcome.

And I'm still in process being renewed. The more I grow the more I see that I need to grow. But I know from the course of my life that my efforts are small, and weak, and require much time to show effect. But I've also learned that as I have this basic trust that I am forever redeemed and beloved of God, that's where the power is. I win when I stop fighting, and believe in His victory.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

It just takes time to understand this ,Brother, it’s great that you are committed to teaching this, I Praise God that you do this, and very patiently so.

Its a stronghold in the mind.
Its a root of deception, and its not going to just give up.

We are inclined toward self righteousness, all the time.

And most believers fell victim to a Minister that reinforced it for years............and its a deep root.

 

[Lizbeth]

I be

I would respond to this that in what @Behold is describing is how we are able to do as those imperatives tell us.

And the question to ask is, what is the result for the child of God who fails to keep all of those imperatives? If the result is condemnation and loss of salvation, then salvation is in the cross of Christ and in the keeping of those imperatives. If either were to fail then all is lost. And who among us keeps all the imperatives at all times?

Be ye holy, as He is holy, one or one thousand, if that is the one, we all fall short, as I see it.

Is salvation found in our having the right sort of dour demeanor over our failings? I believe we are saved in the cross of Christ, His death, His resurrection, and we are along for the ride. We contribute nothing. We believe, we receive.

How much we benefit, in this world and the next, depends to a certain extent on how committed we are, how much we are willing to sacrifice, how much we are willing to suffer for the sake of righteousness.

Much love!

I think realizing our shortcomings is like an unfolding revelation and doesn't seem to begin to happen until we start to grow - the bible says blessed are you who mourn now for you will be comforted. It's a necessary part of maturing. We don't begin to seek what we don't realize we need until we start to realize it. Brother, I believe we are covered by grace like children who are provided for and protected and not expected to perform at an adult level by their parents while they are still children. But there comes a time when we each need to be doing better than we were as children in the faith....growing up and bringing fruit to perfection. But see if what I said about being tutored by the word/law makes sense.

 

[Ritajanice]

Its a stronghold in the mind.
Its a root of deception, and its not going to just give up.

We are inclined toward self righteousness, all the time.

And most believers fell victim to a Minister that reinforced it for years............and its a deep root.

AMEN!!!.....

 

[Behold]

I be

I think realizing our shortcomings

Dont think about any of that., Lisbeth.

Instead center your mind of Faith on the eternal reality of having become a "New Creation in Christ".

'I am the righteousness of GOD...........In Christ"..

This is your born again spiritual Identity., forever.

THAT is the born again child of God.

That is the "Son/Daughter" of God.

Get that MIND, and keep that MIND., as that is REAL Faith.

 

[Lizbeth]

LIsbeth.

"the old man of sin"..."the flesh nature" is CRUCIFIED with Christ."""""

Its DEAD..

Paul told you that ....

Paul told you to "reckon it dead", and you are not.. You are trying to resurrect it.
You have to stop doing that, or you will stay in "Episkopos world" of "trying to DO righteousness", instead of existing as "made righteous". "In Christ'". as your REAL Faith.

See. When you try to DO righteousness, you are "fallen from GRACE" and "in the Flesh", and that is why you STRUGGLE.

You are trying to manifest the power of the Spirit.............with your self effort.

That is.."Episkopos 101" That is the error of Legalism.

A.) Make a spiritual and theological U-Turn.

Please don't try to lump me in with anyone, brother, and just address what I post as an individual. Last I heard, Epi thinks I'm a Calvinist.

As I said there is a paradox with these things and I'm sure there is a lot we will not fully understand this side of heaven. I just take everything as written in the bible....the wonderful encouraging things as well as things that are harder to digest. Sometimes my mind may form questions that are carnal and God doesn't have to even answer those. Carnal mind can't perceive the things of the spirit.

 

[Behold]

Please don't try to lump me in with anyone, brother, and just address what I post as an individual. Last I heard, Epi thinks I'm a Calvinist.

As I said there is a paradox with these things and I'm sure there is a lot we will not fully understand this side of heaven. I just take everything as written in the bible....t

So, the key to understanding the way out of a struggle with the flesh, is to understand that the flesh is your Thinking.
= There is the problem, found, when a believer is battling flesh.
You're battling your thinking.
A.) your born again Spirit is at odds with thinking that is not correct faith.

Thinking is "Mind". Such as being double minded...............that's not 2 Brains in one head, that is Thinking that can't find a place to land and be stable.

Walking in the Spirit, is thinking...only and always.... according to the understanding of being "made Righteous", as a "new Creation, in Christ".

 

[Lizbeth]

Dont think about any of that., Lisbeth.

Instead center your mind of Faith on the eternal reality of having become a "New Creation in Christ".

'I am the righteousness of GOD...........In Christ"..

This is your born again spiritual Identity., forever.

THAT is the born again child of God.

That is the "Son/Daughter" of God.

Get that MIND, and keep that MIND., as that is REAL Faith.

Hmm...don't think about any of that? But what is His LIGHT for then? The Lord even gave me a dream about a searchlight....it was partly humorous because He wanted me not to fear His searching, but rather allow it. David prayed search me and know me O Lord and see if there be any wicked way in me.

This isn't about feeling good about ourselves. We need to let the Lord do His work in us and be prepared to go through seasons that aren't joyous at the time but afterward result in peaceable fruit of righteousness.

 

[Lizbeth]

Im addressing what you are posting, as Paul teaches.
That's all.

Episkopos has these "buzz words" that are always in his mouth., such as 'outer man".......>>>He loves that term.

So, the key to understanding the way out of a struggle with the flesh, is to understand that the flesh is your Thinking.

There is the problem, found, when a believer is battling flesh.
You're battling your thinking.

Walking in the Spirit, is thinking according to the understanding of being "made Righteous", as a "new Creation, in Christ".

Epi and I don't agree on what the outer man is. I've been re-reading a booklet by Watchman Nee that talks about God breaking the outer man. Breaking is very scriptural...who falls on the rock will be broken....by reason of breakings they purify themselves...etc. In my opinion Epi is partly right on some things, but I believe he needs to go back to the drawing board and reconsider a lot of the basic context.

There are lots of terms that get used wrongly but aren't wrong in themselves. I just speak as I speak without reference to how others might use or misuse the same terms.