Entire Sanctification = "In Christ"

[Randy Kluth]

Are you "Living as Jesus lived" when you watch a Movie that has sex in it, or doesn't?

I don't think it's possible to watch movies today without sex in it. I avoid pornography, and endure a little "sex."

Medical doctors aren't perverts when they are exposed to some "nudity." Neither am I necessarily "contaminated" by the perversion that are going to be in the movies. I watch them, but screen out obvious smut or something intent on communicating perversion to an audience.

Paul said not to Marry, because you have to give your life to your family, (>your time<), and you will be caught up in it, and that is time you dont have for Christ....
So, are you like that, Randy?
Are you married?

Yes, happily married--only once (PTL). I tried the "monk" thing because of that Bible passage, but didn't have good advice on interpreting it. I gave up celibacy out of fear of becoming a pervert. ;)

"As Jesus Lived", and notice, Jesus wasn't married.
Are you ?

You don't seem to understand what "living like Jesus" meant? Well, actually I think you do.

It didn't mean we "become Jesus," or adopt his individual attributes. It only means we become "like" him, spiritually and morally.

We have our own individual gifts, and we aren't sinless like Jesus. But we can indeed partake in his righteousness. We can do so without being sinless precisely because we were saved *by grace.*

We have continued access to his righteousness, even though we sometimes fail and have a Sin Nature in our flesh. We "overcome" our flesh. That means we persevere in righteousness despite our "flesh" knocking on our door everyday, trying to produce envy and jealousy in us, anger and revenge, etc. etc.

We all have the tendency to want to fight back in a carnal way. I don't wish to provoke you in that direction, nor do I wish you to do that to me.

Are you "living as Jesus Lived" when you watch "NetFlix"? Maybe "Game of Thrones"?

I gave up Netflix for that reason--someone gave me a free subscription as a gift. I quit. I do, however, look for a reasonably-good movie on Amazon or via Roku/Sling or Tubee.

Do you have Any of the 'Movie" packs, that you can get with your Cable TV or DIRECT TV subscription?

No. I used to, but got frustrated with them cutting programs I liked. I liked Fox News and HGTV, among others. They cut so many programs I felt it wasn't worth the cost.

If you have Cable TV, and you just watched something for an hour.......was your mind on Jesus for that hour?
Were you "living as Jesus lived"?

My mind is *always* on Jesus. Whenever you feel challenged by something ungodly, your mind naturally turns to Jesus. You simply have to deal with it in some way. Sometimes that means I have to turn the program off. Life is like that--full of decisions.

I don't believe being holy is the same thing as being "puritanical." I raised one of my kids in a puritanical way, and it hurt her. She didn't adjust well in society. I homeschooled her, and kept her from all secular TV. She wasn't well-prepared for college and military life. Fortunately, she's recovered.

Do you watch TV or Use the Internet?

I basically Stream. I watch Net-max now, instead of Fox so much. Ever since the Tucker Carlson thing, I've stopped watching so much Fox news. I do like Mark Levin and Maria Bartiromo on Sundays, though. And weekdays I watch Hannity.

Are you "Living as Jesus lived", when you are spending hours doing that, later?
So, exactly when does your "must live as Jesus lived" actually begin for you, Randy?

You are quite annoying, with your verses that you post that you dont actually understand, much less anything else.

Well, I don't wish to annoy you. Taking in the thoughts of fellow Christians who live in a different place than you do can open up your thinking and cause you to be more flexible. I hope that's happening?

 

[Behold]

I don't think it's possible to watch movies today without sex in it.

This type of inane comment, that is obviously delusional, does not even rate an answer.

 

[Behold]

Medical doctors aren't perverts when they are exposed to some "nudity." Neither am I necessarily "contaminated" by the perversion that are going to be in the movies. I watch them

I hope the members, the mods, read what you just wrote.
Unbelievable that a person who states they are a "Christian" could state such obvious self deception., as an EXCUSE to do it.
And at the same time you are on the same Thread talking about "Sanctification", trying to teach your self effort as your sanctification.

 

[Behold]

It didn't mean we "become Jesus," or adopt his individual attributes. It only means we become "like" him, spiritually and morally.

Which explains why you watch, movies with sex in them....or as you said......it does not really contaminate you.
Just bounces right off your carnal mind, i guess.

 

[Behold]

My mind is *always* on Jesus.

Randy Klute said :

""""""I don't think it's possible to watch movies today without sex in it. I avoid pornography, and endure a little "sex.""""""

 

[Randy Kluth]

This type of inane comment, that is obviously delusional, does not even rate an answer.

So, who is the "Legalist?" ;)

 

[Randy Kluth]

Which explains why you watch, movies with sex in them....or as you said......it does not really contaminate you.
Just bounces right off your carnal mind, i guess.

Thank God for the "helmet of Salvation." I'm starting to think I will need that helmet when conversing with you?

 

[Randy Kluth]

I hope the members, the mods, read what you just wrote.
Unbelievable that a person who states they are a "Christian" could state such obvious self deception., as an EXCUSE to do it.
And at the same time you are on the same Thread talking about "Sanctification", trying to teach your self effort as your sanctification.

You hope the Mods see this, just after you complained about how a Mod attacked you? Sounds a bit hypocritical, don't you think? Do you really think the Mods consider it their job to police the notion we watch movies with some sex in them? After all, you asked me what I do--not what I think others should do. They should walk according to their own faith. Pestering me with questions in an effort to find something wrong or hypocritical with me sounds a lot like what the Pharisees did to Jesus. Hmmmmm....

 

[Behold]

So, who is the "Legalist?" ;)

You are.
The issue is, also, that you have posted to me a lot on this forum about that "present your body" sanctification, and now you told us that some sex is ok in a movie that you enjoy, as you are not affected by watching the fornication in a movie.

Jesus would be affected by that.
You didn't know?
Now you do.
But you aren't, you told us..... and that is curious, isn't it Randy?

Also, I teach Paul's Doctrine,....remember? "made righteous"... "free from Sin"...>"no confessing"...>"no losing salvation, that you can't earn".

I believe in personal freedom, as long as you understand that personal freedom has a Twin.

The Twin's name is : Consequences.

 

[Behold]

Thank God for the "helmet of Salvation." I'm starting to think I will need that helmet when conversing with you?

You don't know what that is.

I wrote a Thread on it.

If you can find it, and study it, then you'll know as i promise you that you dont know, nor does your Denomination.


that's not a boast.
thats a reality check.

 

[Behold]

You hope the Mods see this, just after you complained about how a Mod attacked you?

U are making connections that are not actually there, again.
First of all, the "mod" was not on ChristianityBoard....which i explained in the Post.
Also, i do hope they see your comments, about your sex movies, as well as your laughing at your ""sin confessing"" post.
You can go back and try to edit it all out, but as i quote you, its not going anywhere.
That one defined you, as even Episkopos does not make fun of his confessing sin.
He has some Theological crazy going on, but he does not laugh at something like that..
But you did.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You are.
The issue is, also, that you have posted to me a lot on this forum about that "present your body" sanctification, and now you told us that some sex is ok in a movie that you enjoy, as you are not affected by watching the fornication in a movie.

You're adding words and ideas not present in my comments. I didn't say limited pornography in an otherwise-good movie is okay. I just said I can handle it. I don't have to end every movie with limited sex in it. My wife often tells me to fast forward some scenes, which I do when she requests that.

I didn't say I'm not affected by pornography. One just has to harden himself against it, and not let it induce the same in our own behavior.

But you sound like the Legalist, because legalists take pride in their works, in their abstinence from certain activities, as if that makes them pure and righteous. It may help you avoid temptation in the case of avoiding certain movies, but what makes us pure on the inside is keeping Jesus in our heart and mind.

Using your argument, every medical doctor who performs a routine physical exam is being forced into sin by his occupation? Is someone whose job is to be a movie critic to also be viewed a "pervert?" Are police detectives who have to review sex tapes guilty of "perversion?" You don't think through any of this, in my opinion.

 

[Randy Kluth]

U are making connections that are not actually there, again.
First of all, the "mod" was not on ChristianityBoard....which i explained in the Post.
Also, i do hope they see your comments, about your sex movies, as well as your laughing at your ""sin confessing"" post.
You can go back and try to edit it all out, but as i quote you, its not going anywhere.
That one defined you, as even Episkopos does not make fun of his confessing sin.
He has some Theological crazy going on, but he does not laugh at something like that..
But you did.

I have no intention of editing or moving what I said--I answered questions you posed to me. And obviously, your motive was to find fault with me.

Is this the way you "win" your arguments? You smear people with distortions of what they said? I never once justified putting dirt in movies. That is your insinuation alone. And it is a false one.

 

[Randy Kluth]

We must choose to be like Christ if we want to participate in the renewing of our minds. But we don't "must choose to be like Christ" as a part of being reborn, and receiving eternal life. Right?

Much love!

I do recognize how difficult it is to say this in the context of the age-long argument over the role our human will plays in human Salvation. I read Luther's Bondage of the Will. Reading that you will understand how difficult it is to say things without sounding like a Pelagian, ie one who believes he can earn his way to heaven. I was raised a Lutheran--I know!

What I believe, brother, is that our human will is free and essential in choosing Christ as our Savior. That is the role we play in our Salvation--accepting him as our Way, Truth, and Life. Our will also plays a role in our continuing Sanctification, which simply means we choose to cooperate with the Spirit of Christ within us. When he leads us to avoid certain things, we choose to cooperate, thus "consecrating ourselves" to the cause of Christ. It's something we freely choose to do *after we get Saved.*

So we *choose* to get Saved, and we choose to live by our decision. Short and sweet.

 

[marks]

I do recognize how difficult it is to say this in the context of the age-long argument over the role our human will plays in human Salvation. I read Luther's Bondage of the Will. Reading that you will understand how difficult it is to say things without sounding like a Pelagian, ie one who believes he can earn his way to heaven. I was raised a Lutheran--I know!

What I believe, brother, is that our human will is free and essential in choosing Christ as our Savior. That is the role we play in our Salvation--accepting him as our Way, Truth, and Life. Our will also plays a role in our continuing Sanctification, which simply means we choose to cooperate with the Spirit of Christ within us. When he leads us to avoid certain things, we choose to cooperate, thus "consecrating ourselves" to the cause of Christ. It's something we freely choose to do *after we get Saved.*

So we *choose* to get Saved, and we choose to live by our decision. Short and sweet.

I agree with you, except, I think sanctification isn't the correct word here. Jesus is made unto us sanctification, as we are in process of being renewed, of maturing, putting of and putting on.

I think sanctification is a spiritual reality that God does to us. We have a perception of "progressive sanctification" as we feel our behavior is improving over time.

I think more in terms of, the Potter sets aside a certain portion of the clay for special use, and though it is still unformed, yet it has still been set aside, and that is what makes it holy.

Much love!

 

[Randy Kluth]

I agree with you, except, I think sanctification isn't the correct work here. Jesus is made unto us sanctification, as we are in process of being renewed, of maturing, putting of and putting on.

I think sanctification is a spiritual reality that God does to us. We have a perception of "progressive sanctification" as we feel our behavior is improving over time.

I think more in terms of, the Potter sets aside a certain portion of the clay for special use, and though it is still unformed, yet it has still been set aside, and that is what makes it holy.

Much love!

Yes, I believe in Progressive Sanctification. I also believe what you said, that Christ is our Sanctification. It is his work, along with Justification.

Our only difference is that I believe there is more than one sense of Sanctification in the Bible. Definitely, you're correct that Christ did the work of not just our Justification, but also our Sanctification. But I think there is another sense of Sanctification in which we Sanctify ourselves.

I know that sounds terrible in the climate of Protestant Theology of Justification by Faith alone. But I've studied this a long time as someone raised in Lutheran theology. And in real time experience it didn't work out too well for me. I used Grace as an excuse to cover my sins, and I never felt good about it. I always knew I had to a choice *not* to sin, and I simply had to exercise my will to obey.

This is what I call Self-Sanctification, the setting apart of ourselves from ungodly things in obedience to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. We are not "saving ourselves," but rather, participating in God's work of Salvation by practicing obedience.

So I think we have this problem with language. And that's okay. Maybe we'll work it out someday? Unless of course, Christ already did the work for us? ;)

Rev 22.11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”

 

[Behold]

And obviously, your motive was to find fault with me.

Its not about that.

 

[marks]

And I concur @marks-why take excerpts of the post?

I only just now in this reading understood your question, at least, I think I do. Because I wanted to make sure my comment was limited to just the part I quoted.

Much love!

 

[Johann]

I only just now in this reading understood your question, at least, I think I do. Because I wanted to make sure my comment was limited to just the part I quoted.

I appreciate it brother-you are the only person willing to understand me, my character, and my reasoning, my communication-simply love you marks and enjoy having you around and commenting/correcting my posts-pride is long gone, I seek truth.
Don't give up on me just yet.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

Yes, I believe in Progressive Sanctification. I also believe what you said, that Christ is our Sanctification. It is his work, along with Justification.

Our only difference is that I believe there is more than one sense of Sanctification in the Bible. Definitely, you're correct that Christ did the work of not just our Justification, but also our Sanctification. But I think there is another sense of Sanctification in which we Sanctify ourselves.

I know that sounds terrible in the climate of Protestant Theology of Justification by Faith alone. But I've studied this a long time as someone raised in Lutheran theology. And in real time experience it didn't work out too well for me. I used Grace as an excuse to cover my sins, and I never felt good about it. I always knew I had to a choice *not* to sin, and I simply had to exercise my will to obey.

This is what I call Self-Sanctification, the setting apart of ourselves from ungodly things in obedience to the prompting of the Holy Spirit. We are not "saving ourselves," but rather, participating in God's work of Salvation by practicing obedience.

So I think we have this problem with language. And that's okay. Maybe we'll work it out someday? Unless of course, Christ already did the work for us? ;)

Rev 22.11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”

A lighthearted note-

Consult Du Bose’s Ecumenical Councils, p. 70–73. Luther says “the Word was God” is against Arius: “the Word was with God” against Sabellius.

According to the above statement-what am I?
I hold that both is true
Sabellius and Lutheran, Arian?
Lol
Johann