Error of Once Saved

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robert derrick

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Once we are being saved by faith, we are obeying Him by faith.

Once we are not obeying Him by faith, we are not being saved by faith.

When we are obeying God from a pure heart, we are being sons of God in deed and in truth.

When we are obeying the devil by sinning, we are being children of the devil in deed and in truth.

We will be one or the other at the end of this life, according to what we are doing: whether being sons of God, or being children of the devil.

And yes, if we mock God with ongoing sinning for the devil long enough, He will come as thief in the night and take away our candlestick of life:

Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
 

robert derrick

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Humans are all individuals, with their own individual Freewill to choose to hear, read, know, wonder, believe, disbelieve, understand, as they will at any given time.

Lumping ALL people together in a “WE” commentary is presumptuous on your part, AS IF, WHAT you believe APPLIES to all other people. It doesn’t.

The Law was given the Hebrews and thereafter the Tribes of Israel.
The Hebrews, and thereafter the Tribes Agreed to Obey the Law.
Sin is Violation Against the Law.
Where there is no Law, there is no Violation of the Law.
Where there is no Law, there is no Consequence for Violation of the Law.
...In determining “WE” are you a Hebrew? A Tribesman?
Jesus fulfilled the Mosaic Law.
The Law was Not Destroyed.
IF you be the “We” Hebrew or Tribesman, you can Accept Jesus’ fulfillment of the Law, or you can Continue Under the Law.
Thus you have a Division among the “WE”, Hebrews and Tribesmen, making their own individual Freewill choices.
IF being a Hebrew or Tribesman does NOT apply to you, then what DOES apply?
...In determining “WE” are you a Gentile?
* When and What Law was given a Gentile?
* When was determined at the time PAUL was appointed, agreed, sent out to teach the willing ears of the Gentiles.

Continued to page 2 of 3
Lumping ALL people together in a “WE” commentary is presumptuous on your part, AS IF, WHAT you believe APPLIES to all other people. It doesn’t.

If it's the truth of Scripture, then it applies to all. Instead of getting offended, trying correcting it, to show it is not Scripturally true at all. If you can do so soundly, then I'll thank you for it and correct it accordingly.

Otherwise, being offended by the truth of Scripture is not wise: God doesn't really care what we personally think about His word, only that we believe and do it from the heart, or not. It's our choice.

The Law was given the Hebrews and thereafter the Tribes of Israel.

If you want instruction on how to teach the law rightly, I can do so for you.

Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

Otherwise, what I offer has nothing to do with the law, other than: only them that are doing the law and word of Christ, shall be justified at the end of this life.

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

 

robert derrick

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Continued; @robert derrick

Eph 3:
[8] Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;
Acts 13:
[2] As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Ghost said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

As a GENTILE, is your SIN violation Against the Law NOT given you?
As a GENTILE, WHAT is your SIN?
...I can NOT answer FOR YOU, but I CAN answer for myself.
* I am a Gentile.
* I was never Under the Hebrew, Jewish, Tribesman, Mosaic Law.
* I recognize the WITHIN the Mosaic Law, are PRECEPTS, of Gods Beneficial Teachings for Behaviors AMONG MEN.
* MY SIN, was established, as I was naturally being procreated via the seed of man.
* MY SIN, was manifested, the moment I was naturally born.
* MY SIN, increased, in my flesh body, in my soul within my body, AS my body grew AND my flesh had NO KNOWLEDGE of the Lord God.
** By and Through Gods Grace, Gods Plan, Gods Works...Historical men, and Paul particularly appointed and fulfilled his preaching of God, of Christ the Lord Jesus, his writings, for the benefit of the Gentiles inclusion...Knowledge OF the Lord God FOR me (a Gentile), was spoken, was taught, was recorded, was available for me to hear, learn, trust to believe, or not.
* Per exercising my OWN Freewill, as I continued to grow in stature, in curiosity, I elected to hear, listen, bits and pieces of Biblical teachings, and then increased to hear more, read more, study in depth, and learned the KEY, to UNDERSTANDING the wealth of KNOWLEDGE presented within the Scriptures.

* As a Gentile, NOT Under the Law (of Hebrews, Jews, Tribes of Israel), what exactly WAS the the BASICS OF MY SIN, since it be NOT Violation of the Law?
* TWO THINGS...
1) Natural birth from a mans corrupt seed.
2) Disbelief IN the Lord God Almighty.

My natural birth, I could not “change”.
My Belief, IS solely my Freewill to “change”.
** My Dilemma, HOWEVER, by Gods Grace, Gods Works, Gods Power and faithful men’s efforts...men spoke words, men set Pen to Paper, men copied, men printed, men distributed, orally and written Words of God, for my benefit.
My Benefit. Hear mens spoken words, having the Written words, to verify their spoken words are True According to God Himself.

* THE phenomenal exciting part of the Written Word of God, is it is ALL inclusive with Application to Every single Individual Ever naturally born upon this Earth.
* Since Every single natural born man IS an Individual with his own Freewill to Believe and Do as he chooses...That which APPLIES to one man does NOT APPLY to ALL men.
* POINT BEING...what APPLIES TO YOU, Applies to you, according to YOUR beliefs, YOUR doings. What APPLIES TO ME, Applies to me, according to MY beliefs, MY doings.
* WHAT or HOW you UNDERSTAND the knowledge IN Scripture, IS according to YOUR methods.
* WHAT or HOW I UNDERSTAND the knowledge IN Scripture, IS according to MY methods.
* I know NOT, YOUR method for CONCLUDING Understanding of the Knowledge written IN Scripture.
* I DO KNOW MY method for CONCLUDING Understanding of the Knowledge written IN Scripture.

* MY method, IS ASKING GOD for His Understanding, and TRUSTING His IS faithful to give me HIS Understanding of HIS provided Knowledge.

* My disagreement with YOUR claims and accusations, has very little to do with you, and a Great deal to do with my own freewill to read continually, study in depth, Ask God consistently for His Understanding of His provided Knowledge, to my utmost Trust and satisfaction.

Sin is Against God.
Against God, is Disbelief In God.
God is the Forgiver of Sin.
Gods Grace makes His Forgiveness of Sin Against Him Possible.

* My Sin WAS Against God.
* God, by His Grace Offered me, ( “according TO HIS WAY” ), Forgiveness of My SIN Against Him.
* God, by His Grace, through His Word; the Lord Jesus, Offered me, His WAY, to hear and learn ABOUT HIM.
* God, by His Grace, through His Wisdom, His SEED, and His Power; the Christ, Offered me, His WAY to RECEIVE HIS Salvation and Eternal Life.
* BY MY FREEWILL, I elected to RECEIVE HIS Offerings. (According to His WAY.)

* I ELECTED, to Receive During my physical lifetime, ALL the good and righteous Offerings, According to Gods WAY to Receive His Offerings DURING my physical lifetime.
* I am fully AWARE, God IS Spirit, and what God has GIVEN ME, IS Spiritual Gifts, and NOT manifested for Human earthly EYES TO physically See.

* I fully TRUST, Gods Gifts given me ARE Established PERMANENT Gifts, KEPT FOREVER unto me, BY the POWER OF GOD, IN ME, as I agreed and received, the Baptism of Gods Holy Spirit.

* Whereas YOU, may Believe YOU have Received Gods Gift of His Holy Spirit......IN YOU......HIS Gift of Salvation.....AND “preach YOU must do something” to KEEP His Spirit, KEEP His Gift of Salvation...IN you;
* I trust to believe, MY POWER, pales compared to Evil spirits present on this Earth, pales to Wicked men sitting in power seats present on this Earth....and Gods POWER IN ME, IS the SUPREME POWER over ALL things, ALL spirits, ALL men...and ACCORDING TO GODS WAY, His Spirit/Power IN ME, IS the Express Power that KEEPS ME “WITH” Him FOREVER.
Born with sin nature is a lie, and no excuse for sinning as man.

And you don't know what you are talking about pertaining to the law of God.

Want some help?
 

robert derrick

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Have you always been of this opinion, Rob, or have you had a shift of belief?

Just curious, was thinking you used to support OSAS.

Nothing wrong with growing and changing. We are all a work in progress.
I've never been OSAS, but only heard about it. Not till I came hear have I learned just how far into the depths of Satan they will go to justify themselves without works.

I am telling you something sincerely my friend, there is one of their leading gurus here, that has so impressed me with his near majestic ability to twist and turn and reshape Scripture to his own liking, so as to become the exact opposite of what is actually written, that I even applauded him for it.

At one time I merely thought him a middleweight intellect with lightweight knowledge of Scripture, but his ingenious revelations on how to be justified without works, has made me respect what a heavyweight intellect he has when applied to Scripture: Lucifer himself no doubt is proud of him.

Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

He has been spilling all their mysterious beans, and like John beholding all of Mystery Babylon the Great at once, I become equally wondering and admiring of it's perfected delusion.

The hallmark of every cult ministry is to reserve the hidden secrets, until after the new initiate is more fully into the program. Only then do they get the full doctrine of their cult, whether JW, Mormon, or the Holiness group I was in. OSAS I believe is the same. I don't think they would share all their dirty little secrets at once, lest they scare off anyone with a lick of sense about doing good or doing evil, rather than doing both good and evil.
 

robert derrick

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Let's put it in slightly different ~ more scriptural ~ terms:

Once one is born again of the Spirit and thus in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come (2 Corinthians 5:17).

There is then, therefore now no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1)

Therefore for these folks have become the righteousness of God (2 Corinthians 5:21).

This is all according to the purpose of God, which cannot be thwarted (Job 42:2).

We have been sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of His glory (Ephesians 1:13-14)

So there is ~ can be ~ no going back, because the righteous will never be moved, as God will not allow it (Psalm 55:22; 112:6). God's righteousness endures forever (Psalm 111:3, 112:3).

To wrap this up, we would all do well to remember that the grass withers, and the flower fades, but the Word of our God endures forever (Isaiah 40:8; 1 Peter 1:25)

Grace and peace to all.
Wow. An actual teaching. Good job.

You were doing great, until you inserted your on take on no thwarting and cannot turn back.

God's word cannot be thwarted by the devil for them that believe His Word from the heart: the devil cannot stop any soul from receiving Christ by faith, nor stop the believers from obeying Him with a pure heart at all times.

Only souls can thwart and frustrate God's desire to save all men.

And there can be no going back, and still win the race to obtain eternal salvation at the end.

Get rid of the self-justifying unconditional junk, and you too can become one of the sons of God, obeying the Son, even as He obeys the Father.
 

GEN2REV

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I am telling you something sincerely my friend, there is one of their leading gurus here, that has so impressed me with his near majestic ability to twist and turn and reshape Scripture to his own liking, so as to become the exact opposite of what is actually written, that I even applauded him for it.

At one time I merely thought him a middleweight intellect with lightweight knowledge of Scripture, but his ingenious revelations on how to be justified without works, has made me respect what a heavyweight intellect he has when applied to Scripture: Lucifer himself no doubt is proud of him.

Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

He has been spilling all their mysterious beans, and like John beholding all of Mystery Babylon the Great at once, I become equally wondering and admiring of it's perfected delusion.
Will we ever hear who this mystery member with the silver keystrokes is?
 

robert derrick

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These things are only true for those who dwell on the treadmill of unbelief waiting for what was promised to come quickly.

As for those who believe, there is no turning back, for no one can reenter what is dead. They receive their reward and it shall not be taken from them.

Take no counsel from those who do not have, for the promises are true in spite of their withholding spirit.

‘For to everyone who has, more will be given, and he will have abundance; but from him who does not have, even what he has will be taken away. Matthew 25:29
By Jove, I think I've got it again! I am certainly now learning to decipher your mysteries put mysteriously, because you have given me the keys to unlock them!

These things are only true for those who dwell on the treadmill of unbelief waiting for what was promised to come quickly.

I never could understand just what you are talking about here, but now I do:

You are saying, that what is coming quickly as promised by Jesus in Revelation, is not only Himself returning to earth, but also His 'promised' righteousness and true holiness, which is not in this life to Christian sinners to do, but only after the resurrection!!!

Perfect! You truly are impressive! This of course is the OSAS doctrine that the 'hope' of the believer is not just a glorified body, but also is to go and sin no more only with that body.

Going to sin no more and do His righteousness at all times, is not a commandment, but is only a 'hope' of the resurrection with spiritual bodies, which then will be for sure!

And so the treadmill unbelievers greatly err by believing and hoping uselessly to do His righteousness always in this life: they foolishly do not believe in OSAS patience to wait until the resurrection.

And finally, for them that actually think they are doing so now, have fallen from grace into self-righteous 'law doers'.

He said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more after the resurrection of the just.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God
and resurrected from the dead.


Leaders of OSAS are them that sought to do righteousness at all times, and quit, and since they couldn't do it themselves, then no man in 'sinful flesh' can.

Hence, being born with sin nature is a pillar in the church of OSAS.

How about these for OSAS:

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Doubtful disputation is anything about justification by works, and sinning no more, that harms the weak in faith who foolishly believe and hope they can live righteously on earth, as Jesus did in the flesh. Give them time to learn patience of OSAS: that hope is only in the resurrection of the body.

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection.

The better resurrection is when we are made better once for all, in an moment and twinkling of the eye, to do righteousness at all times without also sinning from time to time.
 

robert derrick

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Did Christ sin after He had won the victory?

The same is true for those who are His, those in Him and He in them as One. For it is no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them.

And those who speak against their salvation, speak against Christ.
No worries. I know how this works now.

How can the OSAS Christian sinner confess to being a sinner like all sinners born with sin, committing sins naturally from time to time in the flesh, and yet as Christians, not sin like Christ?

Well, because once they're saved, it's no more I, my soul, that sinneth, which is hid in Christ, but it is now the old man of sinful flesh that sins, which still walks on earth.

Added to this, they can say: It is no more I, the body, that liveth, but Christ that liveth in me, the soul, for the flesh is dead because of sin, and the soul is alive because of Christ.

It's the same way the OSAS sinners can have both a new pure heart given by God for the soul, while still having the old lustful heart of flesh given by birth: Dual Nature theology.

"It all falls into place sir, after you learn the language." (The Last Samurai)

OSAS for Christian Sinners: Christian in spirit, Sinner in flesh!
 

ScottA

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By Jove, I think I've got it again! I am certainly now learning to decipher your mysteries put mysteriously, because you have given me the keys to unlock them!

These things are only true for those who dwell on the treadmill of unbelief waiting for what was promised to come quickly.

I never could understand just what you are talking about here, but now I do:

You are saying, that what is coming quickly as promised by Jesus in Revelation, is not only Himself returning to earth, but also His 'promised' righteousness and true holiness, which is not in this life to Christian sinners to do, but only after the resurrection!!!

Perfect! You truly are impressive! This of course is the OSAS doctrine that the 'hope' of the believer is not just a glorified body, but also is to go and sin no more only with that body.

Going to sin no more and do His righteousness at all times, is not a commandment, but is only a 'hope' of the resurrection with spiritual bodies, which then will be for sure!

And so the treadmill unbelievers greatly err by believing and hoping uselessly to do His righteousness always in this life: they foolishly do not believe in OSAS patience to wait until the resurrection.

And finally, for them that actually think they are doing so now, have fallen from grace into self-righteous 'law doers'.

He said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more after the resurrection of the just.

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God
and resurrected from the dead.


Leaders of OSAS are them that sought to do righteousness at all times, and quit, and since they couldn't do it themselves, then no man in 'sinful flesh' can.

Hence, being born with sin nature is a pillar in the church of OSAS.

How about these for OSAS:

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

Doubtful disputation is anything about justification by works, and sinning no more, that harms the weak in faith who foolishly believe and hope they can live righteously on earth, as Jesus did in the flesh. Give them time to learn patience of OSAS: that hope is only in the resurrection of the body.

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection.

The better resurrection is when we are made better once for all, in an moment and twinkling of the eye, to do righteousness at all times without also sinning from time to time.
It's hard to tell whether you are being facetious or not, so I will explain:

"Those who dwell on the treadmill of unbelief waiting for what was promised to come quickly." are those who do not believe what Jesus said about His coming "quickly", which was to "shortly take place" after His ascension. And because of that unbelief, they have to wait until they die in the flesh before they ever see all that Christ promised.

To the contrary, those who believe that when Jesus knocks on that door in their heart leading to salvation, and they open it--those things do come "quickly."

Thus, each "by their faith" are saved: To the believer, "quickly", and to the unbeliever, not "quickly", but not until they leave this world.

Which is to say, that those who believe that Christ does and has come "quickly" as He promised, have died to self and are no longer of the world even though they remain in the world in His service--even in a body that has been pronounced dead by Christ: "to live is Christ." This is that "first resurrection"--or which it is written, "Blessed are they", for they held out until the End--not of the flesh, but until He came who is the "End." Which those who do not believe that He comes "quickly" will not see, for by lack of understanding they merely hold out until the end of the flesh.​
 
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ScottA

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No worries. I know how this works now.

How can the OSAS Christian sinner confess to being a sinner like all sinners born with sin, committing sins naturally from time to time in the flesh, and yet as Christians, not sin like Christ?

Well, because once they're saved, it's no more I, my soul, that sinneth, which is hid in Christ, but it is now the old man of sinful flesh that sins, which still walks on earth.

Added to this, they can say: It is no more I, the body, that liveth, but Christ that liveth in me, the soul, for the flesh is dead because of sin, and the soul is alive because of Christ.

It's the same way the OSAS sinners can have both a new pure heart given by God for the soul, while still having the old lustful heart of flesh given by birth: Dual Nature theology.

"It all falls into place sir, after you learn the language." (The Last Samurai)

OSAS for Christian Sinners: Christian in spirit, Sinner in flesh!
You mock.

Which was also to come.

So be it.
 

robert derrick

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What Paul said is good, but does not exactly fit with all that has become. You see, he spoke from both sides and to both sides on the cusp of changing times--literally from and to death and also to life--where time meets eternity. He was a witness for Christ in His death, but also in His resurrection. Therefore he says the words of truth must be rightly divided--something that never before would have ever been considered necessary. And this, looking back we either perceive all that has occurred, or carry on unaware--but I am not unaware, nor need anyone be who can hear what is written and what was to come by the Holy Spirit as promised by Christ who has framed it all.

I did by the way, start a new thread regarding the mystery that causes us to view what is true from two different perspectives: A Mystery Revealed (for the first time). .

This mystery revealed pertains to much of the scriptures, but specifically regarding this topic, not unlike the days of looking back from the crucifixion to say it was so since before the foundation of the world--these are the days of future past. In other words, if we are to fully understand the crucifixion we must consider the greater truth to be in that timeless context of God rather than on the created timeline within the kingdom of God where exists no time, except that those things were revealed to us in that manner. Likewise then, if we are to fully understand where and when sin was finished in all who "were" crucified with Christ, there remains no further argument that those whom God has allowed to be alive and remain until His work is finished on that would-be timeline, continue in sin where time does not exist--for they are with and in God in Christ. Which things are not only true, but written, only to unfold to these last generations in their time.
Which was regarding salvation and the error in the idea that sin continues in those who are [actually] saved.

Another way of saying alive soul in Christ, dead flesh in sins: Soul separation from body, and so separation of soul from deeds of the body.

The body isn't a corpse yet, nor is the flesh dead, because the 'spirit of the new name' remains in the brain, while lust remains in the blood pump.

I serve Christ in my mind with my Spirit, while that old body of sin just keeps on a sinnin'. Sort of like Peter went a fishin'.

There remains no further argument that those whom God has allowed to be alive and remain until His work is finished on that would-be timeline, continue in sin where time does not exist-

This must be the more mysterious version: My soul is without sin in Christ, the eternal One, far above the heavens, where time does not exist.

If we are to fully understand where and when sin was finished in all who "were" crucified with Christ

Even with the keys provided, I'm not so sure about this one.

I'm thinking that we 'were' crucified with Christ, means sin was finished in our souls? And it is our bodies that are dead, having crucified the flesh, like that of Jesus left on the cross, yet not hanging dead, but still hanging around naturally sinning?

And since we are of His flesh and of His bones, then our dead flesh and bones on earth, are as His dead body on the cross?

I may be missing something here, because it's only a very small step to thus conclude:

Our old man crucified dead bodies, are still walking around in the death of sins and trespasses, while our souls are far above alive in the resurrected Christ, yet the mind of our spirits are imprisoned in the brains of the dead.

Hello Zombieland of OSAS salvation for Christian Sinners: Dead men walking doing evil, and don't know how to do good, nor can their frustrated brain-spirits make them.

For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

And think of. All this just to be justified without works. Incredible.

I'm thinking it's way easier on the brain and the spirit just to go ahead and repent of sinning with the flesh:

Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
 

ScottA

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The body isn't a corpse yet, nor is the flesh dead, because the 'spirit of the new name' remains in the brain, while lust remains in the blood pump.
I am not going to keep jousting with you while you squirm and struggle over those things you do not want to hear.

But, just as a sample of your being generally wrong about it all--here above you speak contrary to Christ, who said of these times...which is in accord with what I also said:

Matthew 24:28
For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
 

robert derrick

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It's hard to tell whether you are being facetious or not, so I will explain:

"Those who dwell on the treadmill of unbelief waiting for what was promised to come quickly." are those who do not believe what Jesus said about His coming "quickly", which was to "shortly take place" after His ascension. And because of that unbelief, they have to wait until they die in the flesh before they ever see all that Christ promised.

To the contrary, those who believe that when Jesus knocks on that door in their heart leading to salvation, and they open it--those things do come "quickly."

Thus, each "by their faith" are saved: To the believer, "quickly", and to the unbeliever, not "quickly", but not until they leave this world.

Which is to say, that those who believe that Christ does and has come "quickly" as He promised, have died to self and are no longer of the world even though they remain in the world in His service--even in a body that has been pronounced dead by Christ: "to live is Christ." This is that "first resurrection"--or which it is written, "Blessed are they", for they held out until the End--not of the flesh, but until He came who is the "End." Which those who do not believe that He comes "quickly" will not see, for by lack of understanding they merely hold out until the end of the flesh.​
While I do agree about the spiritual resurrection of the soul, life from death, and living from the dead, but I do not agree it is the first resurrection of the blessed at His return.

And therefore, Jesus does come quickly and spiritually alive, being that quickening Spirit within them that receive Him on earth. He also comes quickly in His second coming as lightening. And finally He returns quickly in that He could have returned at any time since His ascension, which is why all His saints are exhorted to watch patiently for it, as well as one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, which would make us in the beginning of the early morning of the third day.

He ascended to heaven in His resurrected Spiritual body, but in His quickening Spirit, he remains upon all flesh knocking on all doors by the word of the Gospel. He coming a second time therefore, is bodily only, first in mortal body, next in immortal body. (What the Jews demanded the first time, and still look for in another.)

for they held out until the End--not of the flesh, but until He came who is the "End."
Once again, you are heavy on spiritual, but off on what is written. As I've said, I do marvel at your intellectual ability, but not well used, like zeal without knowledge, and affecting but not well.

Once we are being saved, it is indeed an end to the old life of sin: however, you over spiritualize trying to apply it to enduring temptation and overcoming sin physically unto the end of this life: and of course you do so, to do away with only obtaining eternal salvation at the end of this life lived as a saint overcoming all flesh, even as He did. (Rev 3)

are those who do not believe what Jesus said about His coming "quickly", which was to "shortly take place" after His ascension. And because of that unbelief, they have to wait until they die in the flesh before they ever see all that Christ promised.

And knowing that you justify sinners continuing to sin naturally, I see how you are trying to make difference between classes of Christians in the resurrection, which I term Christian losers in the race.

There are those who believe to receive Him quickly now in the days of our flesh, and there are those who believe only in His second coming, and so their souls do not experience the same resurrecting power, but remain in the flesh unto the end of this life.

I am not saying you have never experienced the spiritual power of His resurrection; however, I am saying you have gone seriously off the deep end pertaining to sinning with the flesh unto the end.

I know that I don't need to ask this, but just to cover all questions: is your body still the old man sinner sinning naturally, while your soul is the resurrected new man far above preserved in Christ in heavenly places?

Which those who do not believe that He comes "quickly" will not see, for by lack of understanding they merely hold out until the end of the flesh.

Which would be holing out hope of spiritual power only at the resurrection of the dead, while enduring carnal minded sold under sin double mindedness in this life?

You mock. Which was also to come. So be it.

Hey, I have been totally upfront with you about how I consider you to be totally amazing in your ability to spiritualize almost every Scripture in your direction for salvation and justification of God. I have been openly awed by your ability to spiritualize things into an area of mystical space I have never been before. (I don't mock Spock, and I don't mock you)

And I don't want you to run away. If you can correct what I am saying you are saying, then please do. Agreeing is not the issue here. But I only want to know more perfectly what you are teaching in these matters. It is most fascinating.

What I am saying is that I was writing you off as a lightweight OSAS, but compared to you, the others here are stumbling pikers, trying to say things that are not nearly as deep as you go.

I'll tell you what. So long as you honestly show me and correct me of your teaching, I will not mock nor disrespect you in any manner.

That includes other threads. I say this honestly, you have surprise and impressed me greatly. I no longer belittle you in my mind.
 

ScottA

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Born with sin nature is a lie, and no excuse for sinning as man.

And you don't know what you are talking about pertaining to the law of God.

Want some help?
Another sample of your error:

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:1-3​
 

ScottA

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While I do agree about the spiritual resurrection of the soul, life from death, and living from the dead, but I do not agree it is the first resurrection of the blessed at His return.

And therefore, Jesus does come quickly and spiritually alive, being that quickening Spirit within them that receive Him on earth. He also comes quickly in His second coming as lightening. And finally He returns quickly in that He could have returned at any time since His ascension, which is why all His saints are exhorted to watch patiently for it, as well as one day with the Lord is as a thousand years, which would make us in the beginning of the early morning of the third day.

He ascended to heaven in His resurrected Spiritual body, but in His quickening Spirit, he remains upon all flesh knocking on all doors by the word of the Gospel. He coming a second time therefore, is bodily only, first in mortal body, next in immortal body. (What the Jews demanded the first time, and still look for in another.)

for they held out until the End--not of the flesh, but until He came who is the "End."
Once again, you are heavy on spiritual, but off on what is written. As I've said, I do marvel at your intellectual ability, but not well used, like zeal without knowledge, and affecting but not well.

Once we are being saved, it is indeed an end to the old life of sin: however, you over spiritualize trying to apply it to enduring temptation and overcoming sin physically unto the end of this life: and of course you do so, to do away with only obtaining eternal salvation at the end of this life lived as a saint overcoming all flesh, even as He did. (Rev 3)

are those who do not believe what Jesus said about His coming "quickly", which was to "shortly take place" after His ascension. And because of that unbelief, they have to wait until they die in the flesh before they ever see all that Christ promised.

And knowing that you justify sinners continuing to sin naturally, I see how you are trying to make difference between classes of Christians in the resurrection, which I term Christian losers in the race.

There are those who believe to receive Him quickly now in the days of our flesh, and there are those who believe only in His second coming, and so their souls do not experience the same resurrecting power, but remain in the flesh unto the end of this life.

I am not saying you have never experienced the spiritual power of His resurrection; however, I am saying you have gone seriously off the deep end pertaining to sinning with the flesh unto the end.

I know that I don't need to ask this, but just to cover all questions: is your body still the old man sinner sinning naturally, while your soul is the resurrected new man far above preserved in Christ in heavenly places?

Which those who do not believe that He comes "quickly" will not see, for by lack of understanding they merely hold out until the end of the flesh.

Which would be holing out hope of spiritual power only at the resurrection of the dead, while enduring carnal minded sold under sin double mindedness in this life?

You mock. Which was also to come. So be it.

Hey, I have been totally upfront with you about how I consider you to be totally amazing in your ability to spiritualize almost every Scripture in your direction for salvation and justification of God. I have been openly awed by your ability to spiritualize things into an area of mystical space I have never been before. (I don't mock Spock, and I don't mock you)

And I don't want you to run away. If you can correct what I am saying you are saying, then please do. Agreeing is not the issue here. But I only want to know more perfectly what you are teaching in these matters. It is most fascinating.

What I am saying is that I was writing you off as a lightweight OSAS, but compared to you, the others here are stumbling pikers, trying to say things that are not nearly as deep as you go.

I'll tell you what. So long as you honestly show me and correct me of your teaching, I will not mock nor disrespect you in any manner.

That includes other threads. I say this honestly, you have surprise and impressed me greatly. I no longer belittle you in my mind.
Again...I'm not going to debate against your accusations against the spiritual nature of God--God is spirit, and you mock Him and me both.
 

robert derrick

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I am not going to keep jousting with you while you squirm and struggle over those things you do not want to hear.

But, just as a sample of your being generally wrong about it all--here above you speak contrary to Christ, who said of these times...which is in accord with what I also said:

Matthew 24:28
For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
Thank you. If you read my above post, and agree with my promise, then we can continue.

I am not trying to squirm and struggle away from what you say, but I am trying worm my way into exactly what you are saying.

So correct me, if I get you wrong. Perfect my learning of your teaching.

Once again. it's not about agreeing with one another, but only perfectly understanding one another. I assure you, we are not unequal in intelligent understanding of what others say and think.

I'll get back on the carcass. It's an interesting take.
 

ScottA

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Thank you. If you read my above post, and agree with my promise, then we can continue.

I am not trying to squirm and struggle away from what you say, but I am trying worm my way into exactly what you are saying.

So correct me, if I get you wrong. Perfect my learning of your teaching.

Once again. it's not about agreeing with one another, but only perfectly understanding one another. I assure you, we are not unequal in intelligent understanding of what others say and think.

I'll get back on the carcass. It's an interesting take.
If we are going to reason with one another, it will need to be one thing at a time, no long multiple issue exhortations, but concise and point by point. Explanation on one point is one thing, but rattling on with a myriad of issues is not working.

Pick one.
 

PinSeeker

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Wow. An actual teaching. Good job.
LOL! It is what it is. Glory to God.

You were doing great, until you inserted your on take on no thwarting and cannot turn back.
With all due respect, Robert, your critiques are worth nothing to me, frankly.

God's word cannot be thwarted by the devil for them that believe His Word from the heart: the devil cannot stop any soul from receiving Christ by faith, nor stop the believers from obeying Him with a pure heart at all times.
I've never said otherwise. :)

Only souls can thwart and frustrate God's desire to save all men.
Certainly, God's heart is that all would come to knowledge of the truth. But God gets what he purposes to get. He saves who He purposes to save. He has mercy on whom He will have mercy, compassion on whom He will have compassion. Those whom He foreknows ~ foreloves ~ which is not everyone, He also predestines to be conformed to the image of His Son, and those whom He predestines He also calls, and those whom He calls He also justifies, and those whom He justifies He also glorifies.

And there can be no going back, and still win the race to obtain eternal salvation at the end.
Right. Agreed. For those whom God foreloves, predestines, calls, and justifies, they do not "go back."

Get rid of the self-justifying unconditional junk, and you too can become one of the sons of God, obeying the Son, even as He obeys the Father.
LOL! Thanks be to God, I am. Again, your talking down to me means absolutely nothing in the face of who I am in Christ.

Grace and peace to you. Especially grace, since you seem to have none.
 

robert derrick

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Another sample of your error:

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Ephesians 2:1-3​
We disagree firmly on this one. I have offered my readings on this several times, but you overlook them and only continue with your interpretation. So, we'll leave it at that. I am far more interested in learning all I can about your other teachings of a m
The very essence of God is not "mystical space." Woe.
True. Just playing around.

As I said, you are impressive in your depth, and I do want to perfectly learn your meaning.

If we are going to reason with one another, it will need to be one thing at a time, no long multiple issue exhortations, but concise and point by point.

I completely agree. It is rare on this sight, when there are actual debate rules followed, but instead we all talk over each other. I have tried to stick to one point at a time fruitlessly. You would agree that the most aggravating thing is to offer a sincere point of Scripture, only to have it disregarded, and overlooked, so that the other party only continues with their own interpretation.

Here is a point by point list of things I believe you are teaching. You can address them one at a time in any order, or go through with an initial agree or disagree. If you disagree, then correct my understanding of it. I believe at the end, I will be able to teach it like you. And perhaps add to it.

At this point it is not about agreeing or not, but must come later, once I understand you to your satisfaction.

The Natural Man vs the Spiritual Man
1. The natural man, who becomes the old man of sin at salvation, is the natural body born with sin nature: the physical brain and heart are the carnal mind and heart of lust within flesh of sin: sinful flesh.
2. The saved soul is preserved blameless high above in heavenly places in Christ.
3. The spirit of the new man in the body wrestles with the old man of the body.
4. The constant state of the born again Christian is of wretched double minded war with the flesh: the mind of the spirit of the new man wars with the carnal mind and lust of the old man: the physical body.
5. With the mind of the new man, we serve the Lord in the spirit, but with the flesh of the old man, we serve serve the devil with sins of the flesh. (Rom 7) We walk after the Spirit with the mind of the new man, but after the flesh with the old flesh of sin.
6. The preserved soul in Christ is not judged dead, nor condemned, for the sins of the flesh, but the flesh is dead because of sins. (Rom 8)
7. The soul waits patiently for the resurrected body, while the spirit strives with the old sinful body unto the end of this life.
8. Only with the first resurrection of the blessed, is the glorified saint able and free to cease from all sinning and to do righteousness at all times: having no more sin.
9. The hope of the resurrection from the dead is twofold: the resurrection of the body from mortal to immortal, and the perfection of the soul and spirit from all sinning: the sin nature is once for all done away inwardly and outwardly.

The Law of God
1. The law of God is dead outwardly in stone and paper, broken to pieces and nailed to the cross, and the only law of Christ is now written inwardly.
2. Faith alone is simply living by faith only, and not by outward law of man nor God.
3. The only law we now do and fulfill righteously is written inwardly by the Spirit, which we do by faith only.
4. Being dead to the law, which is outwardly dead, we can no longer sin after Adam's transgression against the law: Where no law is, there is no transgression. (Rom 7)
5. We continue to do natural sins of the body, only when we do anything without faith (Rom 14:23). So long as it is by faith, then the inward law of the spirit is fulfilled without sinning.

Natural Sins vs Transgressions of the Law
1. All are still sinners, so long as they are in sinful flesh on earth, and so all still sin naturally.
2. Doing works of the law is by doing anything according to written law on paper, which is impossible to do, since the law on paper is nailed to the cross. Therefore it is impossible to be justified by works, as by law, since all such works are dead, even if it were by faith: decieved bewitched faith according to outward law, not inward Spirit.
3. There is difference between natural sins and sins of transgression against an outward law written on stone or paper: no man can transgress God's written on on stone and paper, because it is dead at the cross: the written law of God on paper no longer exists to obey, nor has power to condemn. It is deception to try and obey a law according to the letter on paper, that is dead to God, even as the body of His Son was dead on the cross.
4. With the resurrection of Jesus' body, His law is now only written spiritually within the hearts and minds of them that believe Him and receive Him by faith.
5.. Therefore any works as by law on paper becomes man's own works of righteousness, and neither saves no justifies any man: they are dead works of a dead law.
6.. There is still sinning by nature, but no more sinning by transgression of outward law: God no more judges any man for trasngressing His written law that is dead, even if man does: the is only One Lawgiver, who only gives His law inwardly after the cross. (James 4:11-12)
7. Natural born sinners still sin naturally without faith in Christ, and born again Christian sinners still can sin naturally, if they do anything not by faith.

As I said, it's up to you how to respond, whether one point at a time in any order, or groups of them that are of the same context. Let the spirit guide you, and I will look forward to what you have.