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Taken

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Rom 7
[1] Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
[2] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
[3] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
[4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
[5] For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
[6] But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
[9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
[10] And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
[11] For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
[12] Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
[13] Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
[14] For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[15] For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
[16] If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
[17] Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[18] For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
[19] For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
[20] Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
[21] I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[22] For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[23] But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
[24] O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

WHAT is Paul talking about IN Rom 7?
The STRUGGLE for every man. ISRAEL, faithful to their Law, but yet may become dead and delivered From the Law, and Gentiles without the Law...will both have the SAME STRUGGLES...should they BECOME “DEAD unto Christ”.
* WHAT STRUGGLE? THE CARNAL MIND!!
* Dead unto Christ, results in death of the FLESH BODY, and RESTORATION of the soul (Pss 23:3), results in REBIRTH of a mans spirit (mans truth in his heart, reborn of Gods SEED), (soul & spirit CONVERTED)
and the Carnal Mind? REMAINS the SAME.

The Carnal Mind “IS” naturally AGAINST God. (Rom 8:7)
Man himself, Becoming Dead unto Christ, WILL struggle with His Carnal Mind STILL wanting to Control what the man THINKS, SAYS, DOES.
* THE BIG PICTURE IS: A man IN CHRIST, (Converted) also has CHRIST “IN” him, the Spirit of TRUTH in his new heart (quickened spirit), and HAS greater POWER, to MAKE the mans Carnal Mind, acquiesce to the thought of the mans new spirit, in his new hearts...thoughts. However IT IS THE man himself, who has the DIFFICULT TASK of MAKING his Carnal Mind acquiesce to the thoughts of his new spirit, in his new heart, to think, to speak, to do...according to his new spirit, new truth, new heart!
* Paul acknowledges the CARNAL MIND IS STILL present, evil, not spiritual, not renewed, and ever ready to cause a man to think, say, do that which in conflict with his restored soul and born again spirit...thus there will be times,
We will find ourselves, thinking, saying, doing, according to our Carnal Minds, rather than our restored soul and born again spirit...and hate it, suffer the consequences for it.
* It is AFTER Conversion, a man continues a life long journey, of MAKING his Carnal Mind, acquiesce to the thoughts of his restored soul and born again spirit’s thoughts, speaking, doing.....FOSTERING the posturing of HAVING A MIND...”OF Christ”.
* Do men stumble, allow “their Carnal Mind”, to control and think stupid things? blurt out stupid stuff? Do stupid things? Yep.
* Does that ^ UNDO, a mans restored soul? UNDO a mans quickened spirit?
No.
* Was that Paul’s frustration? Yep.
* Is that every converted mans frustration? Yep.
* Is Paul’s preaching pointing to his wanting to daily die to the thoughts of his Carnal Mind? IMO, yes.

CONTINUED;
 

Taken

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1 John 1:
[5] This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
[6] If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
[7] But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
[9] If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
[10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1 John 1:
Is talking about, two different persons, and the individual decides, (by what he thinks, does) applies to him.
* a man either believes and submits to God or he doesn’t.
* It is revealing facts:
* You can not SUBMIT to the NEW Spiritual Conversion of Christ and then believe, act, say, do....that YOU REMAIN the SAME OLD man.
* It’s a conundrum of sorts...MEANING...
* It clearly is speaking about what “SPECIFICALLY” AN INDIVIDUAL, says, walks, confesses.
* THE CONUNDRUM...?
“OTHER MEN”...SPEAKING FOR an INDIVIDUAL...THEN BY WHAT “OTHER MEN HAVE SAID FOR YOU”...then ACCUSE the individual of .... having NOT confessed, having NOT been forgiven, having NOT fellowship with Christ, having NOT been cleansed, walking NOT in the Light, having made Christ a LIAR....
* “HOW”, by saying WHAT, does the other speak for the INDIVIDUAL to make these accusations?

Continued;
 

Taken

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Moving along TO: 1 John 3:
1 John 3:
[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 3:9, applies specifically to an individual WHO, has become CONVERTED... (forgiven, bodily dead in Christ, soul restored, spirit quickened, born again of the SEED of God)....and that troubling Carnal Mind still in a work in progress!

So, I know what I have chosen and submitted to: (Conversion)
I know what I Trust is True and Faithful; (The Word & Promise of God)
I know what Gods Works have performed IN me; (Conversion)
I know MY SIN, “WAS” AGAINST GOD...ie Disbelief IN God.
I know MY SIN, “WAS” corrupting my soul...in me.
I know MY SIN, “WAS NOT” Against Violation of Mosaic Law.
I know MY SIN, “WAS NOT” Against man...ie Disbelief IN men.
I know MY SIN, “WAS NOT” my Behaviors Toward men.
I know “NEVER AGAIN” can I can “I SIN”...AGAINST GOD.
I know “BY my Conversion, that it is Precisely Gods POWER IN ME” (ie the Spirit of God, who IS Christ), fully accredited TO KEEPING ME, from EVER AGAIN SINNING (disbelieving) (Standing Against God)...AGAINST GOD.

So, WHEN I boldly and with confidence CLAIM...
“I SIN NO MORE...I DO NOT SIN”....
** And An OTHER, whips out 1 John 8:, and SAYS, (For me), I am Claiming “I HAVE no SIN”...further claiming...I am Claiming to “BE SINLESS”...
THAT IS A COMPLETE “LIE”, “FALSE ACCUSATION”.

I have never claimed “to have NO SIN”.
I have never claimed “to BE Sinless”.
The FACT IS:
I Acknowledged MY SIN, TO the Lord God.
I asked HIS forgiveness.
He IS the Forgiver of SIN.
He forgave me.
He Covered my sin...With HIS Light.
He Remembers my sin...NO MORE.
He DWELLS IN me...
He KEEPS ME, from EVER “AGAIN”...Sinning AGAINST HIM!
He Restored my soul, with HIS gift of Salvation.
He Quickened my spirit.
He Alone has FREED me FROM SIN.
He Alone has given me Jesus’ risen body to reside IN.

Men twist the Scriptures to FIT their Understanding.
* Men, who ARE GENTILES, repeatedly SPEAK of “men sinning against men”... They Claim, they sin against men. They Claim, men sin against them.
And by default, such Claims of men sinning Against men...THEN becomes ACTS of SIN, Against God....??

I am NOT a Jew. Laws of the Jewish Mosaic Religion, of men Against men, being a SIN...UNDER THE LAW, does NOT APPLY TO ME.
Thus, NO, I do NOT sin against men. NO, I do NOT forgive men of sin.
NO, Men do NOT sin against me. NO, Men do NOT forgive me of sin.

My SIN “WAS” solely AGAINST GOD.
Solely GOD forgave my “SIN”.
My SIN AGAINST GOD “DID NOT POOF DISAPPEAR, have some pretense it never existed”....
My SIN AGAINST GOD......IS FORGIVEN. Does my SIN AGAINST GOD, have a CONSEQUENCE? OF COURSE. MY FLESH BODY MUST PHYSICALLY DIE!
Does my SIN Against GOD ALSO have a POSITIVE Consequence? YES.
IT IS FORGIVEN......AND COVERED......AND REMEMBERED NO MORE.
Does my CONVERSION “of Gods WORKS IN ME”...
Have a POSITIVE Conclusion? YES.
I can NEVER......AGAIN......sin, disbelieve or stand Against God.
BY MY POWER? No
Expressly BY Gods POWER IN ME. All accredited to God.
My FLESH is Temporary. Gods PROMISE to be WITH me Forever, and me be WITH Him Forever, is TRUE, Is Permanent...ie OSAS.

1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Heb 10:
[
12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[
14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

IF you KNOW, Sanctification IS a division, of SETTING APART, those IN Christ, from those NOT IN Christ...THOSE IN CHRIST, are Sanctified and are once and forever, WITH the Lord God Almighty.
Ie OSAS. Ie born of Gods Seed. Ie Forgiven of their sin and can sin NO MORE.

One (the Lord) offering, One (man) taking the offering...

ONCE and FOREVER one WiTH the OTHER...that NO ONE can UNDO.
(Not by words, accusations, or lack of understanding).

Glory to God,
Taken
 

ScottA

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So, Scott, you are saying ~ much like Paul ~ that if you sin, it is no longer you who does it, but the sin that dwells within you. But, outwardly speaking, you still sin. Thus, you are striving ~ again, much like Paul ~ to put off the old man and put on the new. If you can say yes to that ~ and I think you are, long-winded though it may be (sorry; just poking a little fun at you :)) ~ then we're good. :)

Grace and peace to you.
What Paul said is good, but does not exactly fit with all that has become. You see, he spoke from both sides and to both sides on the cusp of changing times--literally from and to death and also to life--where time meets eternity. He was a witness for Christ in His death, but also in His resurrection. Therefore he says the words of truth must be rightly divided--something that never before would have ever been considered necessary. And this, looking back we either perceive all that has occurred, or carry on unaware--but I am not unaware, nor need anyone be who can hear what is written and what was to come by the Holy Spirit as promised by Christ who has framed it all.

I did by the way, start a new thread regarding the mystery that causes us to view what is true from two different perspectives: A Mystery Revealed (for the first time). .

This mystery revealed pertains to much of the scriptures, but specifically regarding this topic, not unlike the days of looking back from the crucifixion to say it was so since before the foundation of the world--these are the days of future past. In other words, if we are to fully understand the crucifixion we must consider the greater truth to be in that timeless context of God rather than on the created timeline within the kingdom of God where exists no time, except that those things were revealed to us in that manner. Likewise then, if we are to fully understand where and when sin was finished in all who "were" crucified with Christ, there remains no further argument that those whom God has allowed to be alive and remain until His work is finished on that would-be timeline, continue in sin where time does not exist--for they are with and in God in Christ. Which things are not only true, but written, only to unfold to these last generations in their time.
 
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PinSeeker

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Scott. I agree that many scriptural passages have subtleties and ramifications beyond what at first may appear on the surface. As for what I said, though, what I asked, you should be able answer yes or no to that. But if you don't want to, I understand. Thanks for your time. Grace and peace to you.
 

ScottA

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Scott. I agree that many scriptural passages have subtleties and ramifications beyond what at first may appear on the surface. As for what I said, though, what I asked, you should be able answer yes or no to that. But if you don't want to, I understand. Thanks for your time. Grace and peace to you.
Well...doesn't surprise me.

Destine to be like that guy Paul never mentioned, who upon hearing the mystery of marriage, went, "huh?" and walked away.

Peace. Sure. Whatever.
 

Cassandra

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Moving along TO: 1 John 3:
1 John 3:
[8] He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
[10] In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

1 John 3:9, applies specifically to an individual WHO, has become CONVERTED... (forgiven, bodily dead in Christ, soul restored, spirit quickened, born again of the SEED of God)....and that troubling Carnal Mind still in a work in progress!

So, I know what I have chosen and submitted to: (Conversion)
I know what I Trust is True and Faithful; (The Word & Promise of God)
I know what Gods Works have performed IN me; (Conversion)
I know MY SIN, “WAS” AGAINST GOD...ie Disbelief IN God.
I know MY SIN, “WAS” corrupting my soul...in me.
I know MY SIN, “WAS NOT” Against Violation of Mosaic Law.
I know MY SIN, “WAS NOT” Against man...ie Disbelief IN men.
I know MY SIN, “WAS NOT” my Behaviors Toward men.
I know “NEVER AGAIN” can I can “I SIN”...AGAINST GOD.
I know “BY my Conversion, that it is Precisely Gods POWER IN ME” (ie the Spirit of God, who IS Christ), fully accredited TO KEEPING ME, from EVER AGAIN SINNING (disbelieving) (Standing Against God)...AGAINST GOD.

So, WHEN I boldly and with confidence CLAIM...
“I SIN NO MORE...I DO NOT SIN”....
** And An OTHER, whips out 1 John 8:, and SAYS, (For me), I am Claiming “I HAVE no SIN”...further claiming...I am Claiming to “BE SINLESS”...
THAT IS A COMPLETE “LIE”, “FALSE ACCUSATION”.

I have never claimed “to have NO SIN”.
I have never claimed “to BE Sinless”.
The FACT IS:
I Acknowledged MY SIN, TO the Lord God.
I asked HIS forgiveness.
He IS the Forgiver of SIN.
He forgave me.
He Covered my sin...With HIS Light.
He Remembers my sin...NO MORE.
He DWELLS IN me...
He KEEPS ME, from EVER “AGAIN”...Sinning AGAINST HIM!
He Restored my soul, with HIS gift of Salvation.
He Quickened my spirit.
He Alone has FREED me FROM SIN.
He Alone has given me Jesus’ risen body to reside IN.

Men twist the Scriptures to FIT their Understanding.
* Men, who ARE GENTILES, repeatedly SPEAK of “men sinning against men”... They Claim, they sin against men. They Claim, men sin against them.
And by default, such Claims of men sinning Against men...THEN becomes ACTS of SIN, Against God....??

I am NOT a Jew. Laws of the Jewish Mosaic Religion, of men Against men, being a SIN...UNDER THE LAW, does NOT APPLY TO ME.
Thus, NO, I do NOT sin against men. NO, I do NOT forgive men of sin.
NO, Men do NOT sin against me. NO, Men do NOT forgive me of sin.

My SIN “WAS” solely AGAINST GOD.
Solely GOD forgave my “SIN”.
My SIN AGAINST GOD “DID NOT POOF DISAPPEAR, have some pretense it never existed”....
My SIN AGAINST GOD......IS FORGIVEN. Does my SIN AGAINST GOD, have a CONSEQUENCE? OF COURSE. MY FLESH BODY MUST PHYSICALLY DIE!
Does my SIN Against GOD ALSO have a POSITIVE Consequence? YES.
IT IS FORGIVEN......AND COVERED......AND REMEMBERED NO MORE.
Does my CONVERSION “of Gods WORKS IN ME”...
Have a POSITIVE Conclusion? YES.
I can NEVER......AGAIN......sin, disbelieve or stand Against God.
BY MY POWER? No
Expressly BY Gods POWER IN ME. All accredited to God.
My FLESH is Temporary. Gods PROMISE to be WITH me Forever, and me be WITH Him Forever, is TRUE, Is Permanent...ie OSAS.

1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Heb 10:
[
12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
[
14] For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

IF you KNOW, Sanctification IS a division, of SETTING APART, those IN Christ, from those NOT IN Christ...THOSE IN CHRIST, are Sanctified and are once and forever, WITH the Lord God Almighty.
Ie OSAS. Ie born of Gods Seed. Ie Forgiven of their sin and can sin NO MORE.

One (the Lord) offering, One (man) taking the offering...

ONCE and FOREVER one WiTH the OTHER...that NO ONE can UNDO.
(Not by words, accusations, or lack of understanding).

Glory to God,
Taken
Why does Jesus, when He teaches us to pray, tells us we are are to ask for forgiveness. This prayer is a model, not a one and done.
 
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Taken

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Why does Jesus, when He teaches us to pray, tells us we are are to ask for forgiveness. This prayer is a model, not a one and done.

Why? Because He is the Way and He is the teacher of the Way.
And The Way, is “According to God.”

According to God, Jesus was GIVEN TO the whole world, TO PAY THE PRICE REQUIRED FOR the whole world TO BE SAVED.
* The PAYMENT for the GIFT of SALVATION ‘for’ whole world, was MADE ONCE.
* The PAYMENT is Gods Works.
* The OFFERING TO the whole world is Gods Way.
* The whole world RECEIVING of Gods Gift of Salvation, IS per every individual mans, FREEWILL, to ONCE, reach out and TAKE Gods Gift of Salvation, or NOT.
* Gods Gift of Salvation was bought and paid for FOR the Whole world.
* The Gift of Salvation IS the Whole world’s to TAKE.
* HOW a man NOTIFIES God, he wants to TAKE Gods Gift of Salvation...
IS TO “ASK” God for that GIFT.
* Because ‘otherwise’ the GIFT is FORCED on a man to TAKE., whether or not an individual man, wants to TAKE and HAVE Gods Gift of Salvation.

It’s the SAME concept, that happened with Adam.
God Gave Adam the “tree of life”, expressly for Adam to eat of that tree.

Gen 2:
[9] And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Gen 2:
[15] And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The TREE of Life, Adam was given.
The TREE of Life, Adam was instructed by Adams’ own FREEWILL, to TAKE and EAT.
Adam did NOT choose by his own Freewill to Take and Eat of the Tree of Life Given him.

New Covenant. Tree of Life, (ie Christ Jesus, ie Gods LIFE)), freely given the whole world.
New Covenant. Tree of Life, (ie Christ Jesus), every individual must Heartfully Desire, and Choose to Eat, and DO SO BY ASKING God to GIVE to them His Gift.

Matt 7
[7] Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
[8] For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
[9] Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
[10] Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
[11] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Every individual man, has a process of growing, maturing, with cognitive skills, TO Hear of God, To Hear of Gods Offering, To Seek to learn About God, About Gods Offering, To Freely Choose IF He wants, what he Hears, to Seek after what he wants, to Knock ( ie Approach God and ASK for what He Offers).
AND...God is Faithful to Give the WILLING man, what he HEARD, what he SOUGHT, what he ASKS for.

It’s the same concept, that ANYONE can BUY a GIFT expressly FOR YOU.
You do not possess that gift, UNTIL, you freely reach out and TAKE that gift.

God’s offered Gift of Salvation IS Offered ONCE.
Man of his own Freewill can ONCE reach out and TAKE that gift or not.
ONCE a man TAKES Gods Offered Gift of Salvation, FOREVER, that man HAS that Gift.

Can a man say, Oops, he has taken (by his MINDS DESIRE), Gods Gift of Salvation, changed his MIND, and say, he no longer WANTS Gods Gift, and Give that Gift Back to God?
No.
Why not?
Because According to Gods WAY, “Asking” for Gods Gift of Salvation, has “nothing” to do with a mans “MIND”. (Carnal minded thoughts).
According to Gods WAY, an individual man, ASKS for Gods Gift of Salvation;
According to: the Thoughts of a mans “spirit (ie truth), in a mans Heart.
According to Gods WAY, asking for Gods gift of Salvation IS a REQUIRED Asking, expressly, by, through, of a MANS HEARTS THOUGHTS.
* If a man ASKS, by, though, of his own “HEARTS thoughts”...God WILL Hear that man, and God Himself BE faithful to Once and Forever, GIVE that man, his HEARTS DESIRE, of Gods Gift of Salvation.
* If a man ASKS, by, through, of his own “MINDS thoughts”...God NEITHER Heard that man, NOR Gave that man, his Carnal MINDS DESIRE, of Gods Gift of Salvation.

Rom 10: (the caveat, Gods WAY....”IF”)
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Many others scriptures reveals Gods WAY, of HOW a man Agrees to TAKE, RECEIVE, HAVE, ONCE and Forever, Gods Gift of Salvation.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

ScottA

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It is forever but like I keep saying, I still sin I'm human.
Unfortunately, this is true for those who do not know the times, that the work that He started was finished before you were born. Nor do they know who's child they carry, therefore they fear miscarry.

But to those who know, He who is in them is greater than he who is in the world--even those left alive bearing children of God.
 

Cassandra

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Why? Because He is the Way and He is the teacher of the Way.
And The Way, is “According to God.”

According to God, Jesus was GIVEN TO the whole world, TO PAY THE PRICE REQUIRED FOR the whole world TO BE SAVED.
* The PAYMENT for the GIFT of SALVATION ‘for’ whole world, was MADE ONCE.
* The PAYMENT is Gods Works.
* The OFFERING TO the whole world is Gods Way.
* The whole world RECEIVING of Gods Gift of Salvation, IS per every individual mans, FREEWILL, to ONCE, reach out and TAKE Gods Gift of Salvation, or NOT.
* Gods Gift of Salvation was bought and paid for FOR the Whole world.
* The Gift of Salvation IS the Whole world’s to TAKE.
* HOW a man NOTIFIES God, he wants to TAKE Gods Gift of Salvation...
IS TO “ASK” God for that GIFT.
* Because ‘otherwise’ the GIFT is FORCED on a man to TAKE., whether or not an individual man, wants to TAKE and HAVE Gods Gift of Salvation.

It’s the SAME concept, that happened with Adam.
God Gave Adam the “tree of life”, expressly for Adam to eat of that tree.

Gen 2:
[9] And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
Gen 2:
[15] And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
[16] And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[17] But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

The TREE of Life, Adam was given.
The TREE of Life, Adam was instructed by Adams’ own FREEWILL, to TAKE and EAT.
Adam did NOT choose by his own Freewill to Take and Eat of the Tree of Life Given him.

New Covenant. Tree of Life, (ie Christ Jesus, ie Gods LIFE)), freely given the whole world.
New Covenant. Tree of Life, (ie Christ Jesus), every individual must Heartfully Desire, and Choose to Eat, and DO SO BY ASKING God to GIVE to them His Gift.

Matt 7
[7] Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
[8] For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
[9] Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
[10] Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
[11] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?

Every individual man, has a process of growing, maturing, with cognitive skills, TO Hear of God, To Hear of Gods Offering, To Seek to learn About God, About Gods Offering, To Freely Choose IF He wants, what he Hears, to Seek after what he wants, to Knock ( ie Approach God and ASK for what He Offers).
AND...God is Faithful to Give the WILLING man, what he HEARD, what he SOUGHT, what he ASKS for.

It’s the same concept, that ANYONE can BUY a GIFT expressly FOR YOU.
You do not possess that gift, UNTIL, you freely reach out and TAKE that gift.

God’s offered Gift of Salvation IS Offered ONCE.
Man of his own Freewill can ONCE reach out and TAKE that gift or not.
ONCE a man TAKES Gods Offered Gift of Salvation, FOREVER, that man HAS that Gift.

Can a man say, Oops, he has taken (by his MINDS DESIRE), Gods Gift of Salvation, changed his MIND, and say, he no longer WANTS Gods Gift, and Give that Gift Back to God?
No.
Why not?
Because According to Gods WAY, “Asking” for Gods Gift of Salvation, has “nothing” to do with a mans “MIND”. (Carnal minded thoughts).
According to Gods WAY, an individual man, ASKS for Gods Gift of Salvation;
According to: the Thoughts of a mans “spirit (ie truth), in a mans Heart.
According to Gods WAY, asking for Gods gift of Salvation IS a REQUIRED Asking, expressly, by, through, of a MANS HEARTS THOUGHTS.
* If a man ASKS, by, though, of his own “HEARTS thoughts”...God WILL Hear that man, and God Himself BE faithful to Once and Forever, GIVE that man, his HEARTS DESIRE, of Gods Gift of Salvation.
* If a man ASKS, by, through, of his own “MINDS thoughts”...God NEITHER Heard that man, NOR Gave that man, his Carnal MINDS DESIRE, of Gods Gift of Salvation.

Rom 10: (the caveat, Gods WAY....”IF”)
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Many others scriptures reveals Gods WAY, of HOW a man Agrees to TAKE, RECEIVE, HAVE, ONCE and Forever, Gods Gift of Salvation.

Glory to God,
Taken
Of course, Jesus death saves us, but we can still sin. That is why the Lord's prayer model is for everyone to pray more than once.. If He says we are to ask for forgiveness, in the model, He didn't mean once, He meant for us to pray and ask for forgiveness. If if were not so,He would have told us...
 
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Earburner

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Matt 12
[30] He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
Yes, I agree to verse 30, but the evidence for a christian, which is NOT Born Again by the Holy Spirit of God, is that they can only scatter souls abroad.
"....he that gathereth NOT with me scattereth abroad."

Mat. 12:30 should be read in conjunction with verse 29, because Jesus was revealing how it is that Satan claims rulership over us.
[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's [satan's] house [dwelling place], and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man [satan]? and then he will spoil his house [to the Victor goes the spoils, which in this case, is each of us who are saved]. Satan is a "scatterer" of souls, as is also everyone who "is none of His". Romans 8:9.

Jesus was revealing how He overtakes satan and his claim over people. For all who repent and come to God through faith in Jesus, satan is booted out of them, when God the Father and God the Son take up residence within the believer.

If you think that this interpretation should be otherwise, don't forget that the "tares" also now "gather" among the "wheat", until the Lord comes.

Only the Born Again Christian knows how to "gather" souls WITH Christ unto God. Spiritually, Born Again Christians are quite literally with Christ 24/7, and He with them.
Luke 3[17] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge* his floor, and will gather [*separate] the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
As an Ambassador for Christ, in His stead, are you "gathering" souls WITH Him, unto their salvation?
 
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Taken

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Of course, Jesus death saves us, but we can still sin.

You can STILL sin against God, STILL Not believe in Him? How so, when His Spirit is IN you. How so, can Gods Spirit IN you Stand Against Himself?
 

Taken

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Yes, I agree to verse 30, but the evidence for a christian, which is NOT Born Again by the Holy Spirit of God, is that they can only scatter souls abroad.
"....he that gathereth NOT with me scattereth abroad."

Mat. 12:30 should be read in conjunction with verse 29, because Jesus was revealing how it is that Satan claims rulership over us.
[29] Or else how can one enter into a strong man's [satan's] house [dwelling place], and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man [satan]? and then he will spoil his house [to the Victor goes the spoils, which in this case, is each of us who are saved]. Satan is a "scatterer" of souls, as is also everyone who "is none of His". Romans 8:9.

Jesus was revealing how He overtakes satan and his claim over people. For all who repent and come to God through faith in Jesus, satan is booted out of them, when God the Father and God the Son take up residence within the believer.

If you think that this interpretation should be otherwise, don't forget that the "tares" also now "gather" among the "wheat", until the Lord comes.

Only the Born Again Christian knows how to "gather" souls WITH Christ unto God. Spiritually, Born Again Christians are quite literally with Christ 24/7, and He with them.
Luke 3[17] Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge* his floor, and will gather [*separate] the wheat into his garner; but the chaff he will burn with fire unquenchable.
As an Ambassador for Christ, in His stead, are you "gathering" souls WITH Him, unto their salvation?

I have said nothing different...
Aware tares are among the wheat....ON this Earth.
Also aware the wheat that has become separated, IS exclusive to those, “IN” Christ and Christ “IN” them.
Even Jesus Himself, while ON this world was not OF this world, and YET was among the tares.
Men “IN” Christ as well, are not OF this world. Like Jesus, they “IN” Christ, absolutely are among the tares, but not OF the tares. The wheat, separated, IN Christ, have been prepared, IN Christ, IN the Word of God, to do as Jesus did, SPEAK the Word of God, that the tares OF the world, might hear, be curious, listen, learn, read, and freely choose for themselves to become Converted “IN” Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Earburner

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I have said nothing different...
Aware tares are among the wheat....ON this Earth.
Also aware the wheat that has become separated, IS exclusive to those, “IN” Christ and Christ “IN” them.
Even Jesus Himself, while ON this world was not OF this world, and YET was among the tares.
Men “IN” Christ as well, are not OF this world. Like Jesus, they “IN” Christ, absolutely are among the tares, but not OF the tares. The wheat, separated, IN Christ, have been prepared, IN Christ, IN the Word of God, to do as Jesus did, SPEAK the Word of God, that the tares OF the world, might hear, be curious, listen, learn, read, and freely choose for themselves to become Converted “IN” Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken
Taken, when I respond to a post, I always consider the audience who is reading it, who might not reply.
I was just clarifying the issue at hand, of how others might erroneously interpret the words "he that gathereth NOT with me".

Thanks for your reply, I agree with it.
 
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robert derrick

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I have to agree with you on this, saying one is once saved always saved is like giving that person a green pass to commit sin.

As we are human and will always sin intentionally or unintentionally, so we must pray everyday for God's forgiveness and repent for our wrong doings, I'm by no means perfect and do sin, not that I want to, but it's human nature.
The one main difference between an OSAS sinner and a Christian saint is simple:

Saints believe if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father.

OSAS declares when they sin, they will be forgiven.

Their presumptive sinning is a mockery of the wage for sinning, and the cost to forgive by the blood of the Lamb of God.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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The one main difference between an OSAS sinner and a Christian saint is simple:

Saints believe if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father.

OSAS declares when they sin, they will be forgiven.

Their presumptive sinning is a mockery of the wage for sinning, and the cost to forgive by the blood of the Lamb of God.

if you’re gonna hate on OSAS, at least learn what it is first.
 

Lifelong_sinner

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The one main difference between an OSAS sinner and a Christian saint is simple:

Saints believe if we sin, we have an advocate with the Father.

OSAS declares when they sin, they will be forgiven.

Their presumptive sinning is a mockery of the wage for sinning, and the cost to forgive by the blood of the Lamb of God.

newsflash!!!! You DO sin. Everyday.