Eternal Life is a Harvest Reaped by Doers of Good

[Ronald David Bruno]

You realize there are more than a couple passages in Romans 3 and 4 that address the issue, right?

You are not discerning scripture. You are missing that God gives rewards for the people who are already saved.

About Romans 2
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
>>> So far this is unbelievers and Jews.

13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
>>> again Jews living under the Law - not saved

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

>>> unbelievers, Gentiles who do not have the Law and do not have Christ.

So, in verses 12-16 the are no Christians referred to.

 

[GracePeace]

You are not discerning scripture. You are missing that God gives rewards for the people who are already saved.

Yeah, the "reward" is eternal life. LOL Stop pretending Romans 2:6-7 isn't there.

About Romans 2
12 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law
>>> So far this is unbelievers and Jews.

13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
>>> again Jews living under the Law - not saved

14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) 16 in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ, according to my gospel.

>>> unbelievers, Gentiles who do not have the Law and do not have Christ.

So, in verses 12-16 the are no Christians referred to.

Oops! Paul is castigating the Jewish Christians in the Roman Church who are looking down their noses at their Gentile Christian counterparts because the Gentiles lack the physical lineage from Abraham, the physical circumcision, the physical code (Torah), but Paul corrects this : "You think just because you're Jewish God will play favorites? No, being Jewish means nothing--yes, Gentile sinners will die, but Jewish sinners will die too! And by the same token when the Gentile Christians fulfill God's Law by the Spirit of Grace writing God's Law on their hearts, they are going to be justified and repaid with eternal life despite the fact that they are 'Gentile' and not 'Jewish'."

Look at verses 26 and 27--these Gentiles are doers of the Law, and v29 says they're circumcised in the heart by the Spirit. They're Christians.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Yeah, the "reward" is eternal life. LOL Stop pretending Romans 2:6-7 isn't there.


Oops! Paul is castigating the Jewish Christians in the Roman Church who are looking down their noses at their Gentile Christian counterparts because the Gentiles lack the physical lineage from Abraham, the physical circumcision, the physical code (Torah), but Paul corrects this : "You think just because you're Jewish God will play favorites? No, being Jewish means nothing--yes, Gentile sinners will die, but Jewish sinners will die too! And by the same token when the Gentile Christians fulfill God's Law by the Spirit of Grace writing God's Law on their hearts, they are going to be justified and repaid with eternal life despite the fact that they are 'Gentile' and not 'Jewish'."

Look at verses 26 and 27--these Gentiles are doers of the Law, and v29 says they're circumcised in the heart by the Spirit. They're Christians.

Sorry, I don't accept your view. You lack discernment. Probably a Catholic. Your view is legalistic.
Jesus saves us. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit. I don't think you know what that means.
I'm done here, no use to continue.

 

[justbyfaith]

I've already refuted this,

You couldn't have possibly refuted the thing in question; because it is biblical doctrine.

 

[justbyfaith]

I've already refuted this, you can respond to it when it pleases you.


1. You realize there are more than a couple passages in Romans 3 and 4 that address the issue, right?

2. You must not have read God's Words I referred you to. I will cite them here for your enrichment and correction :

Romans 2
6who WILL REPAY EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7to those who by perseverance in doing good seek glory, honor, and immortality, He will give eternal life; 8but to those who are self-serving and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give wrath and indignation. 9There will be tribulation and distress [g]for every soul of mankind who does evil, [h]for the Jew first and also for the Greek, 10but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who does what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11For there is no partiality with God.
12For all who have sinned [j]without the Law will also perish [k]without the Law, and all who have sinned [l]under the Law will be judged [m]by the Law; 13for it is not the hearers [n]of the Law who are [o]righteous before God, but the doers [p]of the Law who will be justified. 14For when Gentiles who do not have [q]the Law [r]instinctively perform the requirements of the Law, these, though not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience testifying and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of mankind through Christ Jesus.

Galatians 6
6Let the one who is taught the word share all good things with the one who teaches. 7Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap. 8For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life. 9And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up. 10So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone, and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

Commentary on Romans. (post #18 and #19)

 

[GracePeace]

Sorry, I don't accept your view. You lack discernment. Probably a Catholic. Your view is legalistif.
Jesus saves us. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit. I don't think you know what that means.
I'm done here, no use to continue.

So, in other words, you have no place in your life for Christ's teaching that eternal life is a repayment for good deeds. That's fine, but don't lie to people and pretend I invented it. Be a man, stand and face the truth. Don't invent lies. Yeah, you are "done"--your position is indefensible. I'm glad you have shown everyone that fact.

 

[justbyfaith]

So, in other words, you have no place in your life for Christ's teaching that eternal life is a repayment for good deeds. That's fine, but don't lie to people and pretend I invented it. Be a man, stand and face the truth. Don't invent lies. Yeah, you are "done"--your position is indefensible. I'm glad you have shown everyone that fact.

Actually, your position is indefensible.

Scripture is clear that we are regenerated and renewed "not by works of righteousness which we have done" (Titus 3:5) and that we are saved "not of works, lest any man should boast" (Ephesians 2:9)

 

[GracePeace]

Jesus saves us.

I don't think you know what that means.

As Paul warns 1 Corinthians 10, the Jews were also "saved by the blood of the Lamb", and were "baptized", and yet with most of them God was displeased so they fell under God's wrath in the wilderness and never inherited the promise.
Now, according to Paul, that was written down for Christians to understand what can happen to them.

We are sealed by the Holy Spirit. I don't think you know what that means.

Ironically, the opposite is the case: you clearly don't understand what it means to be sealed with the Spirit : you'd better not grieve the Spirit, or He'll leave like He did with Samson (again, it was written down for our instruction to let us know the dynamics of life before God today).

 

[justbyfaith]

@GracePeace,

@Ronald David Bruno has left the building.

And I am not inclined to answer for him.

So, I think that you are now left to argue with the Lord over your doctrine.

 

[GracePeace]

Absolutely!
We cooperate and participate, but Jesus gets all the credit.

Gold!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

So, in other words, you have no place in your life for Christ's teaching that eternal life is a repayment for good deeds. That's fine, but don't lie to people and pretend I invented it. Be a man, stand and face the truth. Don't invent lies. Yeah, you are "done"--your position is indefensible. I'm glad you have shown everyone that fact.

Over 100 scriptures state that salvation is by FAITH ALONE!
100+ Bible Verses On Salvation By Faith Alone | New Covenant Baptist Church - Spokane, WA
BEING SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IS NOT SOME OBSCURE DOCTRINE THAT CHRISTIANS LIE OR PRETEND ABOUT. ABRAHAM WAS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. WE ARE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH NOT BY WORKS.

Pray for the Holy Spirit to help you discern scripture. You are spreading a false gospel based on faith + works
Twisting and distorting the truth of the Bible is a dishonor to Christ.
Your whole premise is baseless - you have nothing. You try to distort what I say and put words into my mouth, is bearing false witness! Be advised.
IF YOU LIVE BY THE LAW, YOU WILL BE JUDGED BY IT! AND JUDGMENT DAY IS COMING SOON!

 

[justbyfaith]

...and those who sin without the law shall also perish apart from the law (Romans 2:12).

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

...and those who sin without the law shall also perish apart from the law (Romans 2:12).

Of course, unbelievers will be judged.

 

[GracePeace]

Over 100 scriptures state that salvation is by FAITH ALONE!
100+ Bible Verses On Salvation By Faith Alone | New Covenant Baptist Church - Spokane, WA
BEING SAVED BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH IS NOT SOME OBSCURE DOCTRINE THAT CHRISTIANS LIE OR PRETEND ABOUT. ABRAHAM WAS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH. WE ARE JUSTIFIED BY FAITH NOT BY WORKS.

Pray for the Holy Spirit to help you discern scripture. You are spreading a false gospel based on faith + works
Twisting and distorting the truth of the Bible is a dishonor to Christ.
Your whole premise is baseless - you have nothing. You try to distort what I say and put words into my mouth, is bearing false witness! Be advised.
IF YOU LIVE BY THE LAW, YOU WILL BE JUDGED BY IT! AND JUDGMENT DAY IS COMING SOON!

1. So, if I link you to a site entitled "verses that prove salvation is by works of the Law" does that prove I'm right, too, or does that rule only work when you post a website? LOL

2. If you want to respond with facts to my (ostensible) "errors", go ahead--I've numbered my points to make it easier for you to respond explicitly to each of them. I'm not hiding, I'm right here. "Act like men".

 

[Windmillcharge]

You didn't reply to my points.

Why debate minor points when there is a major error.

 

[Windmillcharge]

The commandment to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength; and your neighbor as yourself: can be fulfilled as you place your trust in Christ so that He gives you the Holy Spirit (Galatians 3:14) through whom the love of the Lord can be shed abroad in your heart (Romans 5:5)

Yes Jesus' saved us and he sustains us but no where does it say that we do not have to obey him.

He summed up all the commandments with, A new commandment I give you, Love one another as I have Loved you.'

Do you? I know I don't..

Failure to live the unlovely in a costly sacrificial way is disobeying Jesus.

It means we are not demonstrating our love for him.

 

[GracePeace]

Why debate minor points when there is a major error.

Why are you on a discussion forum pretending to know things and want to discuss them when you have no knowledge and no wish to discuss things?

 

[justbyfaith]

Yes Jesus' saved us and he sustains us but no where does it say that we do not have to obey him.

He summed up all the commandments with, A new commandment I give you, Love one another as I have Loved you.'

Do you? I know I don't.

I do.

Not out of any love intrinsic in me as a human being; but because the love of the Lord has been shed abroad in my heart through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5).

 

[mailmandan]

Sorry, I don't accept your view. You lack discernment..

So it's not just me. Eternal life is clearly a free gift (Romans 6:23) and not a reward that we work for and earn. In regards to Romans 2:6-10, (which often gets misinterpreted by works-salvationists to imply we are saved by works) if this passage of scripture gets interpreted in isolation from the rest of the book of Romans, one might conclude that Paul was teaching salvation by works. However, as you read and study these passages, it's critical to keep in mind that these verses do not describe how one becomes saved, but the way the saved (and unsaved) conduct their lives. These works done are the result of, not the means or basis of receiving eternal life.

So patient continuance in well doing, seeking for glory, honor, and immortality; (vs. 7) is not at all set forth as the means of their procuring eternal life, but as a description of those to whom God does render life eternal. *Notice that ALL who receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does good (vs. 10). Good deeds flow from a heart that is saved and evil deeds flow from a heart that is unsaved. Verse 8 - but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath. *Notice that ALL who do not receive eternal life are described as such, everyone who does evil (vs. 9).

What those passages convey is that though our deeds are judged by God, it's not the good deeds themselves which are the basis or means by which we obtain eternal life, but the type of deeds expose whether our heart was saved, or not. These deeds done out of faith are the fruit, not the root of salvation. If Paul wanted to teach that we are saved by works, then he would have clearly stated that we are saved through faith and works in Ephesians 2:8,9 and that we are justified by faith and works in Romans 5:1 but that is clearly NOT what Paul said. *Also see (Romans 4:2-6; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9 etc..).

 

[Hidden In Him]

Good morning, Gentlemen!

Hope everyone is blessed. I was reading through this discussion and thought I should create a separate thread to delineate between good works and works of the Law. I think that is at the heart of much of the confusion on this subject.

All are welcome to attend,
Hidden In Him

Good Works Vs Works Of The Law

@GracePeace, @Windmillcharge, @justbyfaith, @Ronald David Bruno, @mailmandan, @Enoch111, @Daniel Veler,