Eve in the Garden

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BARNEY BRIGHT

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I had to think on this a little bit. I believe there is an amount of reverence in worshipping and thinking on God. His ways are not our ways. I was just thinking about this the other day on the discussion of being on our knees to pray. I always pray in bed under the covers. It has been a very long while before really showing reverence to my Father by praying on my knees.

Usually God comes to my mind concerning everything. So the Dr. Strange scene in Infinity War, that thought came up in my mind how predestination/free will/ God's amazing omniscience looks like. But this is the second time it has been laid on my heart to look at this week. God is my Father, but I also want to show Him the honor He deserves. Not so much into religious practice, but magnifying Him more in my walk...

But I do believe God can speak to us through anything, including a movie.

I think that the problem with what you said here is that things that have to do with something like Dr Strange is that media such as that is philosophy of men. The scriptures warns us about listening to philosophy of men. So as I have said before, people have the right to believe what they want. I don't have to agree with it however.
 
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amadeus

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As I understand, Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit apart from which we perform the best of our good works for the wrong reasons. But in the New Birth and especially after the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, we receive a new nature that produces good works for the right reasons.
Your few words bring a whole stream of questions and understandings and difficulties which I am not certain I need to deal with at the moment. In time as per Ecc 3:1-8 we may discuss this some more...

For now, give God the glory!
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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Greetings, Barney.

I actually like several of your posts in this thread, though to some extent I side with CoreIssue on the issue of God's foreknowledge (but certainly not on the sex thing). I believe He knew in His foreknowledge that His creation would eventually sin, and with it would come all the evils that transpired afterwards, but the way you put the above makes it sound like this was His will. The scripture states clearly that God would that all be saved, not perish.

I think of God in terms of the analogies He Himself encouraged us to use. He speaks of Himself as our Father, and like a human father He knew that those who loved Him would eventually stub their toes and get some bumps and bruises, so to speak, but that they would be healed from those things through the provision He would make. He also knew what would become of those who rejected Him as their Father, but this did not discourage Him from creating man anyway because of the hopes and intentions He had for those who would love Him and worship Him. Was it His will that some reject Him? Of course not. He loves mankind, and does not want any to perish...

I believe when all is said and done that the creation of man will bring tremendous joy to both God and His creation.

The problem I have with how you and others reason on foreknowledge, is basically, that it looks like God's ability of foreknowledge controls him rather than God controlling this ability. God is all-powerful but he obviously hasn't used all his power. When a wicked world of mankind was destroyed by a flood God didn't use all of his power. When he destroyed the cities of Sodom and Gommorah he didn't use all his power. If God had used all his power then creation itself would be destroyed. God can be selective on how he uses his power and still be all powerful so God can be selective on how he uses his ability of foreknowledge and still be all knowing. Myself I have never believed that God's ability to look into the future is what makes him all knowing. So did God look into the future to see that there would be an Angel that would become a Satan and a devil? No, I don't believe so.

Another thing that bothers me about how people reason on foreknowledge is how they ignore the fact that God is infallible. Like I have said in the past, if God had looked into the future before creating anything and saw exactly when sin would come into creation and exactly which Angel would become the Satan and the Devil and Eve would choose to be disobedient as well as Adam, then since God is infallible, God could not possibly be wrong about what he saw when he looked into the future, otherwise he would be fallible not infallible. So since God had looked into the future and seen these things happen before he created anything how could this Angel even choose to do anything but what God saw before he created him. This Angel didn't have the ability to choose nothing else except what God saw him do before creating him. If this Angel had the ability to use his free will to be obedient rather than disobedient that would prove God to be fallible not infallible. What i'm saying is that this Angel couldn't use his free will to be obedient. It's impossible for him to prove God wrong. So the only choice he could make was the one God saw him make before he created him. I don't believe any part of Creation can prove God wrong that's what makes God infallible is that no one can prove him wrong.
 
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Dave L

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Your few words bring a whole stream of questions and understandings and difficulties which I am not certain I need to deal with at the moment. In time as per Ecc 3:1-8 we may discuss this some more...

For now, give God the glory!
It's really simple if we are as sinful and incapacitated by it as scripture says. Apart from the New Birth and Baptism, we have only the sinful flesh (our minds) to work with. We cannot discern spiritual truth without the Spirit. So we always choose a false Christ and hear a false gospel even when the true is preached. It goes over our heads.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14) (KJV 1900)
 

101G

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I don't believe it to be a scientific fact just you and others say so.
first thanks for the reply, Second, "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children". one need to STUDY to show yourself approve unto God, no neeed to be ashame.

"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter". again we suggest you research the matter.

nothing from nothing leave nothing.

PICJAG.
 

101G

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Cain married his sister.

Population estimates run from 10 million to a few billion.

Remember the people at that time had many more years of reproductive lifespan than after the flood.
not saying that you're right or wrong, where in the bible do it say conclusive Cain married his sister? now we understand that his mother Eve had other children in the Garden, but how many Generation had already passed before he was born. his sisters could have had many generation of childrens themselves, and Cain could have married one of them. for the bible do not tell us how many children she had and they, (her Children had). scripture, Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth".

and they multiplied in the earth. hence the Scripture, Genesis 2:24 "Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh". why used this scripture here if there was no children yet to leave home?

PICJAG.
 
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Trekson

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Trekson

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Cain married his sister.

Population estimates run from 10 million to a few billion.

Remember the people at that time had many more years of reproductive lifespan than after the flood.

Does that sound reasonable? absolutely, but if you don't believe Eve had children before the fall, where did the sister come from? If one adheres strictly to what the bible says, Seth and all the children born after him were born after Cain had left the garden and since the "others" were already in existence before Cain sinned, the only logical conclusion is they were children from before the fall.
 
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bbyrd009

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The meaning of that verse isn't as obvious as it seems. What I believe Jesus is saying is that no one before had come from heaven and returned back up as the same person/human. We know angels have done so. It's certainly not that he is the only one that gets to go to heaven.
"certainly," so you say. Fam with the "Dunning/Kruger Effect?"
thankfully we have plenty of other Scripture to contemplate on the matter,
There is only One Immortal
you and your sons will be here with me
why do you stand there looking up into the sky
the kingdom of heaven is within you

etc
and yes, I am aware of the contrasting vv, that we may all find what we seek
 

farouk

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It's really simple if we are as sinful and incapacitated by it as scripture says. Apart from the New Birth and Baptism, we have only the sinful flesh (our minds) to work with. We cannot discern spiritual truth without the Spirit. So we always choose a false Christ and hear a false gospel even when the true is preached. It goes over our heads.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14) (KJV 1900)
Good verse to remember!
 

amadeus

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It's really simple if we are as sinful and incapacitated by it as scripture says. Apart from the New Birth and Baptism, we have only the sinful flesh (our minds) to work with. We cannot discern spiritual truth without the Spirit. So we always choose a false Christ and hear a false gospel even when the true is preached. It goes over our heads.


“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14) (KJV 1900)

Yes, simple to us in our own hearts when God has filled in any gaps there [spiritually discerned], but in our minds to formulate an expression in man's language that anyone listening could understand requires an interpretation by that same Holy Spirit for the benefit of the listener. Just knowing it and wanting to share it with others is not enough:


"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28
 

Helen

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Do you think if Eve didn't eat the fruit in the Garden of Eden, Adam would have, or one of their children? Was it bound to happen?

First I have to confess I have only read the OP ...I will read the other posts after I have posted here.

Personally...I believe Eve would have..at some point.
I have often wondered just how long they both lived in the Garden before eating...it may have been years!!
"For me" the bible patterns are there for a reason...I do not believe Adam would have eaten first.
I believe, for love sake...after she had eaten, he chose to eat. He chose her ..he wanted to be 'with her'. Just as the Last Adam chose to lay down His life for His Bride.

Yes, I believe it was destiny. God's divine Plan.
If it were not so...then God wouldn't have set the tree there with the Serpent in it.
Some people, because of of childhood Sunday School say she bit into an apple :rolleyes: I personally believe she took into herself the seed of Doubt. "Hath God said ..." She took it and believed it, and passed it on the Adam..

Just my own thoughts. ♥︎
 
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CoreIssue

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Does that sound reasonable? absolutely, but if you don't believe Eve had children before the fall, where did the sister come from? If one adheres strictly to what the bible says, Seth and all the children born after him were born after Cain had left the garden and since the "others" were already in existence before Cain sinned, the only logical conclusion is they were children from before the fall.

None of the children were conceived or born in the garden.

Adam and Eve had a lot of children that lived for centuries. So what is so hard to understand about sisters being born, growing up and having sex with their brothers.

There was no one else and it was not a sin at that time.
 
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Dave L

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Yes, simple to us in our own hearts when God has filled in any gaps there [spiritually discerned], but in our minds to formulate an expression in man's language that anyone listening could understand requires an interpretation by that same Holy Spirit for the benefit of the listener. Just knowing it and wanting to share it with others is not enough:


"But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God." I Cor 14:28
You imply we cannot know the truth. But study cures this.
 

amadeus

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You imply we cannot know the truth. But study cures this.
Negative on that! If study alone were the answer then people with good minds who applied themselves fully to studying the Bible would become better believers in God than anyone else. If you have been around a while you will have met some dedicated students of the Bible who were atheists studying to be able to put down some lazy followers of God. Study is important and is required, but alone in our flesh alone with the highest IQ around the result is found in these words:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

John writes from the words of Jesus where Truth is to found:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26
 
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Dave L

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Negative on that! If study alone were the answer then people with good minds who applied themselves fully to studying the Bible would become make better believers in God than anyone else. If you have been around a while you will have met some dedicated students of the Bible who were atheists studying to be able to put down some lazy followers of God. Study is important and is required, but alone in our flesh alone with the highest IQ around the result is found in these words:

"And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh." Ecc 12:12

John writes from the words of Jesus where Truth is to found:

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26
This happens in conjunction with studying the bible. The words are Spirit and life. An ignorance of scripture leaves one a baby christian unskillful in the word.
 

amadeus

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This happens in conjunction with studying the bible. The words are Spirit and life. An ignorance of scripture leaves one a baby christian unskillful in the word.
I am certainly not against reading and studying the scriptures. My point is that study alone is a weariness of the flesh.

We need to both eat His flesh and drink His blood regularly in order to have Life!
 
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Dave L

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I am certainly not against reading and studying the scriptures. My point is that study alone is a weariness of the flesh.

We need to both eat His flesh and drink His blood regularly in order to have Life!
Bible Study is a discipline that is tiring. But time well spent for the rewards associated with it.