Except a man be born of WATER and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

[Nancy]

Where did that come from... That's not what we were talking about. We were talking about the interpretations of born again.
Such a massive shift to a whole other topic. I sense much anger and hate, calm down mate.
Im not here to discuss RCC conspiracy theories, just born again.

We've been baptized and we believe in Christ. God Bless

Hi Cristo,
I don't understand the Catholic hatred either. Although, I am no longer Catholic, I was born and raised as such. I have no doubts in my heart where my wonderful grandmother is right now, she was a devout Catholic her whole life, played the organ at her Church for over 40 years. The woman exhibited every single fruit of the Spirit and never ever had a bad word to say about anybody...I believe God has a remnant in EVERY Church.
God Bless,
nancy

 

[justbyfaith]

There is clearly a delineation in this thread between those who have been baptized in Jesus' Name and those who have not been.

Just as it was in the case of John's baptism:

Luk 7:29, And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.
Luk 7:30, But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

Those of us who have been baptized in Jesus' name, understand the truth; that baptism in Jesus' name has the power to remit sins and impart the Holy Ghost to a man.

Those who have not received this baptism, want desperately to believe that they are saved without it...and they may in fact be right.

However, if they are wrong, they are gambling on eternity in their contention that they are right.

 

[Joseph77]

......

 

[Tong2020]

No, you've missed the discussion. I was presenting both sides



No, again you've just missed the discussion. That is his view. My view is that of the RCC

An since you say I missed the discussion, please tell me what is the RCC view.

Tong
R0722

 

[mjrhealth]

Those who have not received this baptism, want desperately to believe that they are saved without it...and they may in fact be right.

No desperation, just a lack of understanding on your part. Make it all so complicated.

 

[justbyfaith]

No desperation, just a lack of understanding on your part. Make it all so complicated.

No lack of understanding on my part.

 

[Cristo Rei]

i.e. deceived.

First you were all friendly with me and now that you learnt that im a Catholic u tried changing the topic and started treating me like im evil or something. What's up with that? U hate the RCC therefore u hate all Catholics? Seriously? U hate me cos of who i was born to?

Your last two post were antagonizing attacks and both times i handed out the olive branch by saying we are both baptized and we both believe in Jesus. But you cannot bring yourself to come to any agreement, your not even explaining your self. Your just throwing out accusations and judgements without any basis...

Were u born in 1977? I was too. We're not kids anymore. We should be able to have a civilized conversation at our age.

Ever heard of the "Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification" All the leaders of the RCC and the reformed churches came together. But instead of arguing and remaining divided they decided to unite together to come to an agreement to create this doctrine.
I think it's a beautiful thing what they did and should be an example to us all. If the leaders of our churches can come together like this then why can't ordinary people do the same.

 

[Cristo Rei]

An since you say I missed the discussion, please tell me what is the RCC view.

Tong
R0722

Look i really can't be bothered with anymore anti-Catholic attacks, you'll have to try find another one to bash
The OP presents both the Protestant view and the RCC/Orthodox view

Peace out

 

[justbyfaith]

Look i really can't be bothered with anymore anti-Catholic attacks, you'll have to try find another one to bash
The OP presents both the Protestant view and the RCC/Orthodox view

Peace out

Peace in.

 

[Cristo Rei]

@Joseph77 Whats this now... You've gone back and deleted all your messages... Why???

 

[Tong2020]

Look i really can't be bothered with anymore anti-Catholic attacks, you'll have to try find another one to bash
The OP presents both the Protestant view and the RCC/Orthodox view

Peace out

Why? Had I bashed you? Such attitude you got there CR.

Nice talking to you, even for a short while.

Peace out.

Tong
R0741

 

[justbyfaith]

Why? Had I bashed you? Such attitude you got there CR.

Nice talking to you, even for a short while.

Peace out.

Tong
R0741

Peace in.

 

[marksman]

Ja! Heed your own advice!

In case you had not noticed I always do. it is one of the foundations of all my teaching.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Why? Had I bashed you? Such attitude you got there CR.

Nice talking to you, even for a short while.

Peace out.

Tong
R0741

Mate, ur weren't informed on our discussion so u don't know my attitude, ur just making false assumptions...
My only attitude has been to avoid confrontation while i was being attacked and abused by him just for being Catholic...
Try reading the conversation first at least before coming from no mans land with unfounded allegations...

 

[user]

Therefore, as supported by Scripture, Jesus is saying that "Except a man be born of WATER [the Word of God] and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Let's take a look at the scripture...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water[G5204] and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

G5204
ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos

Thayer Definition:
1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples


God Bless!

 

[07-07-07]

As to the OP, the WATER that Jesus spoke of is the "Word of God". One cannot enter the Kingdom of God without being born of the Word of God. The Word of God does teach that once one has received the miraculous born again experience, he/she should go forth to be baptized in water to fulfill all righteousness. However, if one is baptized in water without receiving the miracle of the born again experience, then he/she would go down a dry sinner and come up a wet one. This doctrine of men has replaced the true doctrine of Messiah Jesus. Jesus said, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:44. The real born again experience comes from above, by the drawing of the Spirit, and not that of men -- so water cannot wash away the sin of an unconverted sinner no matter how much they believe it does.

2 Corinthians 7
[10] For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

 

[user]

As to the OP, the WATER that Jesus spoke of is the "Word of God".

Let's take a look at the scripture you had used...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water[G5204] and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

G5204
ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos

Thayer Definition:
1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples

water cannot wash away the sin of an unconverted sinner no matter how much they believe it does.

First, the sinner needs to believe, then be baptized...

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

In other words: He that believeth and is baptized = shall be saved


Now as for water washing away sin...

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


God Bless!

 

[07-07-07]

Let's take a look at the scripture you had used...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water[G5204] and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

G5204
ὕδωρ / ὕδατος
hudōr / hudatos

Thayer Definition:
1) water
1a) of water in rivers, in fountains, in pools
1b) of the water of the deluge
1c) of water in any of the earth’s repositories
1d) of water as the primary element, out of and through which the world that was before the deluge, arose and was compacted
1e) of the waves of the sea
1f) fig. used of many peoples






First, the sinner needs to believe, then be baptized...

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

In other words: He that believeth and is baptized = shall be saved


Now as for water washing away sin...

Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


God Bless!

The blood of Jesus washes away sin, not water. If water could wash away sin, then there would have been no need for Jesus to have been born into the human race to eventually go to the Cross of Calvary.. Read my signature. Jesus fulfilled that Scripture on the Cross. It's the blood of Jesus!

 

[Cristo Rei]

First, the sinner needs to believe, then be baptized...

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

In other words: He that believeth and is baptized = shall be saved

It doesn't specify any order. If it said he who believes THEN GETS baptized. then that would be saying believe first

But it says He who believes AND IS baptized. "And is" could even mean if u believe and is already baptized.

So if anything the balance of probability goes in favour of baptizing first. But the text is too inconclusive to be sure either way.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Either way it's the same outcome. We all get baptized and we all accept Christ. End of story really.

God Bless