Explaining the Trinity
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Yes; because God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost are all one.
The Father is the eternal Spirit who inhabiteth eternity: He descended to take on human form, and added nature of human flesh.
He then released Himself back to the Person who remained behind inhabiting eternity (since in inhabiting eternity, he cannot vacate eternity in the descending). His Spirit left His body; this is the Person of the Holy Ghost: who, if you think about it, is the same Person as the Father.
See Luke 23:46.
Also, consider and meditate on the meaning of the following scriptures: John 4:23-24, John 14:7-11.
One Person and yet three.
Not modalism because of the understanding of the difference between time and eternity.
God is not like shifting shadows as some say we believe.
God is one Person and yet exists also as three distinct Persons. That is the only way I can accurately describe it.
Not modalism because of the understanding of the difference between time and eternity.
God is not like shifting shadows as some say we believe.
God is one Person and yet exists also as three distinct Persons. That is the only way I can accurately describe it.
You still miss the glory of God thinking like the Pharisees did about God. You have no idea what you are missing out on.
I am 100% certain that what I believe about the Trinity is 100% accurate.
I am missing out on nothing; for I am smack-dab in the center of the truth.
I am missing out on nothing; for I am smack-dab in the center of the truth.
Evidently you are going to start up with these shenannigans again.
Gal 4:29, But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
101G
Well-Known Member
Addressing the OP videos, one need to a. READ their bible, b. with the Holy Spirit.
if there is a trinity, (which is not), we will do what the trinitarians been doing for years. put forth the same scripture until debunked, or is exposed. they have used Genesis 1:26 until it was taken away.
trinitarians has used many verses to try in prove their doctrine is correct, and they all has been debunked, or exposed. we has put forth just one scripture, and a few more others ...... and they have not been debunked, or is exposed.
the reconciling of John 1:3 with Isaiah 44:24 is just one example. until then the doctrine of the trinity is dead and buried.
so videos are a help, but the actual word of God, "the bible", is better.
PICJAG.
if there is a trinity, (which is not), we will do what the trinitarians been doing for years. put forth the same scripture until debunked, or is exposed. they have used Genesis 1:26 until it was taken away.
trinitarians has used many verses to try in prove their doctrine is correct, and they all has been debunked, or exposed. we has put forth just one scripture, and a few more others ...... and they have not been debunked, or is exposed.
the reconciling of John 1:3 with Isaiah 44:24 is just one example. until then the doctrine of the trinity is dead and buried.
so videos are a help, but the actual word of God, "the bible", is better.
PICJAG.
I see scripture being thrown about again to support a ridiculous worn-out hypothesis(es) of the Trinity - again, without regard to any understanding. At least I will do justice to one verse I saw Dave (@Dave L) lay down, as my commentary, that again ridicules and thwarts any attempt to show the Trinity is scriptural.
Romans 9:5:
Verse 5 is used by some false teachers to force their non-scriptural hypothesis that Jesus is actually the Almighty. There are no bounds or depths these teachers will not go in misapplying scripture in order to ram their wares down peoples’ throats.
Now Paul spoke to his fellow Judeans in truth, being in Christ, and not in God Almighty. The spirit of Christ of the Holy Spirit is Paul’s witness (Verse 1). Paul labored in pain and sorrow in the center and very core of his being, in the heart of his spirit (Verse 2). Paul attempted to win his blood brothers over as he was concerned that Christ should be in their lives, if not already.
Paul had such deep devotion and consideration for, and identification with his fellow Israelites that if he could, and if it would help him win them over to Christ, he would separate himself from Christ, to let them know his love for them as another brother, an Israelite. He spoke to his own kin of common ancestral fathers. He told them he is a brother in flesh with them (verse 3). He said all of them including himself are Israelites of the same blood line, then under the Law of God in his service, with the same Covenants given to them by God, and carrying the promise of God for ‘Israel’ (Verse 4). Christ was the ultimate promise given to Israel that began with Abraham.
Now Paul continued and said that Christ was a human being also of the same fathers as they, of the Israelites. Christ, Paul and they are of the same stock. And then Paul pronounced this thought and event with a cry of praise, for his God. He gave a short eulogy and gave praise and the glory to God Almighty who is ‘over all’, over all creation (Verse 5).
Then Paul encouraged them and said that God’s word and actions regarding Christ does not leave them stranded, outmoded or left out, being an Israelite of blood today. He said that these ‘all’ are not all Israelites of blood. They are of Israel and eventhough they are not of Abraham’s physical seed of Isaac (Verses 6 and 7).
Paul said that the children or the seed of God are not necessarily an Israelite of blood, or not. These are of the promise given through Abraham. They are in Christ, all of them (Verse 8).
In conclusion: The last thing Paul intended to say or mean, was to say Christ is his own Father or God over all creation. That would have scattered his audience immediately. The audience was monotheistic not tri-theistic, or even di-theistic. That would be a ridiculous thought, indeed, and would have cost him all the credibility he built with his audience.
Other scripture speaks of giving praise to God Almighty or for being ‘over all,’ as used in Verse 5. There is no precedent set in scripture to say Christ is ‘over all’ of creation as intended by some. It is wishful thinking.
No, Paul, whenever he spoke of who was ‘over all,’ or who was worthy of praise it was always God Almighty as the Father of Christ. Examples include Romans 1:23; 2 Corinthians 11:31, Ephesians 1:3, 4:6 and 1 Timothy 6:15.
Now many translators of Verse 5 were busy changing the context of it by moving around words and punctuation to benefit their thinking. Most were Trinitarians and made it appear that Christ is ‘over all’ and he should be praised as being the same as God. This is called scripture butchery. In light of the context already explained in associated verses is becomes quickly obvious that scripture was altered deliberately and dishonestly.
Here are some translations of Verse 5 that states that God, not Christ is ‘over all.’
(Rom 9:5) They have those famous ancestors, who were also the ancestors of Jesus Christ. I pray that God, who rules over all, will be praised forever! Amen. (Contemporary English Version)
(Rom 9:5) of whom are the fathers and from whom Christ came, according to the flesh, He who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. (English Majority Text Version)
(Rom 9:5) they are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised forever! Amen. (Good News Bible)
God chose and created Christ as a blessing to the blood line Israelites, for his purpose of salvation, to seed his Kingdom of true Israel. This is what Paul’s audience took away. Not that Christ, the Israelite, was God himself!
From the renowned Trinitarian, R.S. Frank, the Principal Emeritus of the Western College in Bristol England. From his book, entitled ‘The Doctrine of the Trinity’, he states:
” It should be added that Rom. 9:5 cannot be adduced to prove that Paul ever thought of Christ as God. The state of the case is found in the R.V. margin…He [Paul] never leaves the ground of Jewish monotheism. It has been pointed out that Rom. 9:5 cannot be brought in to question this statement. On the contrary, God is spoken of by the Apostle as not only the Father, but also the God of our Lord Jesus Christ”
Blessings,
APAK
Romans 9:5:
Verse 5 is used by some false teachers to force their non-scriptural hypothesis that Jesus is actually the Almighty. There are no bounds or depths these teachers will not go in misapplying scripture in order to ram their wares down peoples’ throats.
Now Paul spoke to his fellow Judeans in truth, being in Christ, and not in God Almighty. The spirit of Christ of the Holy Spirit is Paul’s witness (Verse 1). Paul labored in pain and sorrow in the center and very core of his being, in the heart of his spirit (Verse 2). Paul attempted to win his blood brothers over as he was concerned that Christ should be in their lives, if not already.
Paul had such deep devotion and consideration for, and identification with his fellow Israelites that if he could, and if it would help him win them over to Christ, he would separate himself from Christ, to let them know his love for them as another brother, an Israelite. He spoke to his own kin of common ancestral fathers. He told them he is a brother in flesh with them (verse 3). He said all of them including himself are Israelites of the same blood line, then under the Law of God in his service, with the same Covenants given to them by God, and carrying the promise of God for ‘Israel’ (Verse 4). Christ was the ultimate promise given to Israel that began with Abraham.
Now Paul continued and said that Christ was a human being also of the same fathers as they, of the Israelites. Christ, Paul and they are of the same stock. And then Paul pronounced this thought and event with a cry of praise, for his God. He gave a short eulogy and gave praise and the glory to God Almighty who is ‘over all’, over all creation (Verse 5).
Then Paul encouraged them and said that God’s word and actions regarding Christ does not leave them stranded, outmoded or left out, being an Israelite of blood today. He said that these ‘all’ are not all Israelites of blood. They are of Israel and eventhough they are not of Abraham’s physical seed of Isaac (Verses 6 and 7).
Paul said that the children or the seed of God are not necessarily an Israelite of blood, or not. These are of the promise given through Abraham. They are in Christ, all of them (Verse 8).
In conclusion: The last thing Paul intended to say or mean, was to say Christ is his own Father or God over all creation. That would have scattered his audience immediately. The audience was monotheistic not tri-theistic, or even di-theistic. That would be a ridiculous thought, indeed, and would have cost him all the credibility he built with his audience.
Other scripture speaks of giving praise to God Almighty or for being ‘over all,’ as used in Verse 5. There is no precedent set in scripture to say Christ is ‘over all’ of creation as intended by some. It is wishful thinking.
No, Paul, whenever he spoke of who was ‘over all,’ or who was worthy of praise it was always God Almighty as the Father of Christ. Examples include Romans 1:23; 2 Corinthians 11:31, Ephesians 1:3, 4:6 and 1 Timothy 6:15.
Now many translators of Verse 5 were busy changing the context of it by moving around words and punctuation to benefit their thinking. Most were Trinitarians and made it appear that Christ is ‘over all’ and he should be praised as being the same as God. This is called scripture butchery. In light of the context already explained in associated verses is becomes quickly obvious that scripture was altered deliberately and dishonestly.
Here are some translations of Verse 5 that states that God, not Christ is ‘over all.’
(Rom 9:5) They have those famous ancestors, who were also the ancestors of Jesus Christ. I pray that God, who rules over all, will be praised forever! Amen. (Contemporary English Version)
(Rom 9:5) of whom are the fathers and from whom Christ came, according to the flesh, He who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen. (English Majority Text Version)
(Rom 9:5) they are descended from the famous Hebrew ancestors; and Christ, as a human being, belongs to their race. May God, who rules over all, be praised forever! Amen. (Good News Bible)
God chose and created Christ as a blessing to the blood line Israelites, for his purpose of salvation, to seed his Kingdom of true Israel. This is what Paul’s audience took away. Not that Christ, the Israelite, was God himself!
From the renowned Trinitarian, R.S. Frank, the Principal Emeritus of the Western College in Bristol England. From his book, entitled ‘The Doctrine of the Trinity’, he states:
” It should be added that Rom. 9:5 cannot be adduced to prove that Paul ever thought of Christ as God. The state of the case is found in the R.V. margin…He [Paul] never leaves the ground of Jewish monotheism. It has been pointed out that Rom. 9:5 cannot be brought in to question this statement. On the contrary, God is spoken of by the Apostle as not only the Father, but also the God of our Lord Jesus Christ”
Blessings,
APAK
@APAK,
Have you considered that there is one Lord in scripture (Ephesians 4:5); and that that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21)?
But no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3).
Mar 12:29, And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; even one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
The Greek word that I translated as even there is kai, usually translated as and, but which is translatable as even.
Because there is one Lord: and since Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21 identify Him as the Father, if Jesus is also Lord (and He is), then that makes Him the Father (even as is declared by Isaiah 9:6).
Consider that at the very least Mark 12:29, quoted above, declares that the one Lord is God.
Have you considered that there is one Lord in scripture (Ephesians 4:5); and that that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21)?
But no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3).
Mar 12:29, And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; even one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
The Greek word that I translated as even there is kai, usually translated as and, but which is translatable as even.
Because there is one Lord: and since Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21 identify Him as the Father, if Jesus is also Lord (and He is), then that makes Him the Father (even as is declared by Isaiah 9:6).
Consider that at the very least Mark 12:29, quoted above, declares that the one Lord is God.
The most simple "trinitarian" passages crumple your argument. Any Sunday school kid beyond the grasp of a cult can see this.
Just saying, Christendom is trinitarian, you are part of a break-away sect from the early 1900s who follows a different Christ.
You insist that I am not trinitarian. I know that what I believe in is not disparate from the doctrine of the Trinity.
But I feel that you have some sort of vendetta against me. In one thread, you tried to assert over and over again that I do not believe in the Trinity and that my understanding is false.
You are not me, so how would you know what I believe in? You do not even know me.
You yourself were baptized in Jesus' name, so I suppose that you are a part of the same group, except for the fact that you are a Tritheist and therefore could not possibly be a part of it since your doctrine is Tritheist and theirs emphasizes the Oneness of the Lord.
But what I am saying is, that the fact that I was baptized according to Acts 2:38 does not mean that I deny the Trinity. Because I don't. I emphasize the Oneness of the Lord and I teach the Trinity for their sake.
My understanding is that the Lord is more one than He is three; and I believe that this is a safe position so that I don't depart from the Trinity for Tritheism.
Also, through meditating on the subject for many years, having the concept on the backburner of my thinking every time that I have opened my Bible, I believe that I understand the Trinity, what the doctrine is; and my attempt to relate to others this faithful understanding is fought against by the likes of you, who have a dogmatic view based on the creeds rather than what the Bible says and teaches. You are basically a thorn in my flesh similar to what Paul said he had, a messenger of satan to buffet me and to keep me from being exalted above measure. Because if you had not so fought against the truth the way that you have done, many people would now understand the Trinity and groups like the JW's and Mormons would no longer have any ground to stand on; because the Trinity would be understood and there would be no possibility any more for Christians to be deceived by aberrant doctrines on the subject.
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If you were trinitarian in the biblical sense, you would agree with the church and not remove yourself from it with a doctrine that does not compare with the scriptures
Show how my doctrine does not compare with the scriptures. I dare you to pick apart posts #1-#4 of the following thread line-by-line and show how it is not a biblical teaching.
Trinity vs. Tritheism
But you couldn't do it before; so how are you going to do it now?
Trinity vs. Tritheism
But you couldn't do it before; so how are you going to do it now?
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