Expose on Mormonism.

[justbyfaith]

No one said a word about anyone's system of faith,

The context of this entire discussion is Mormonism. I'm sorry but that is a system of faith. And I guess that you also think that I am no one; because I said a word about someone's system of faith.

 

[justbyfaith]

deleted: pre-peat of #163.

 

[justbyfaith]

Deuteronomy 6:4
“ The Lord Our God, the Lord is One.”

Quoted by Jesus in Mark 12:29 (kjv)...READ IT IN THAT VERSION. Compare to Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, in light of Ephesians 4:5 and 1 Corinthians 8:6. Then take a wild look at 1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv).

 

[Harvest 1874]

The context of this entire discussion is Mormonism. I'm sorry but that is a system of faith. And I guess that you also think that I am no one; because I said a word about someone's system of faith.

Our sister here attempted on more than one occasion to ignore your attacks on the Mormon faith and to focus on her faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but you had no interest in that your only interest was in attacking the system of faith to which she was joined.

All of Babylon is fallen, there is no sect or denomination devised by men which stands approved by God. This applies even to those who say they are non-denominational, for a short investigation would soon reveal that even though not presently a part of any particular sect many nevertheless will be found clinging to some one or another of the various erroneous doctrines taught in these systems.

Thus instead of focusing on what you believe to be wrong in someone else's system of faith, making yourself to appear a hypocrite perhaps you might focus a little bit more on what you may share in common, such as faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

She has professed her faith in Christ Jesus our Lord and that is enough,

“For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones (the divine truths with a corresponding character or), wood, hay, straw (human traditions and errors which generally results in an unstable character), each one’s work will become clear; for the Day (the “Day of Trial”, the “Day of the Lord”) will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire (trouble); and the fire will test each one’s work (their faith and character to determine), of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it (on Christ) endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire (through various trials and testings).” 1 Cor 3:11-15

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Nothing I said about Mormonism was inaccurate

As far as accusations go, the only thing I said was she does not know it is much about her own religion as she thinks she does. That based on what a regular Mormon and Temple Mormon are taught, her being a regular Mormon.

CI, I am a active temple attending member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Sainte. I am EXTREMELY well studied and have dealt with the false information you're putting on here for decades. It gets extremely old dealing with the same misrepresentation over and over again. If you're interested in improving your information, feel free to PM me and I'll gladly & thoroughly go over the truths and the history of the fiction with you. If you're not interested, that's your choice.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Our sister here attempted on more than one occasion to ignore your attacks on the Mormon faith and to focus on her faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but you had no interest in that your only interest was in attacking the system of faith to which she was joined.

All of Babylon is fallen, there is no sect or denomination devised by men which stands approved by God. This applies even to those who say they are non-denominational, for a short investigation would soon reveal that even though not presently a part of any particular sect many nevertheless will be found clinging to some one or another of the various erroneous doctrines taught in these systems.

Thus instead of focusing on what you believe to be wrong in someone else's system of faith, making yourself to appear a hypocrite perhaps you might focus a little bit more on what you may share in common, such as faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

She has professed her faith in Christ Jesus our Lord and that is enough,

“For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones (the divine truths with a corresponding character or), wood, hay, straw (human traditions and errors which generally results in an unstable character), each one’s work will become clear; for the Day (the “Day of Trial”, the “Day of the Lord”) will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire (trouble); and the fire will test each one’s work (their faith and character to determine), of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it (on Christ) endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire (through various trials and testings).” 1 Cor 3:11-15

Thank you.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Wow, who died and made you the Judge of God's people?
You know nothing about her heart.

Thank you, @ByGrace.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I want to again thank all of the disciple of Christ on here that have shown His love in this conversation. I know I wasn't able to get out individual thanks to everyone, and but still, I am thinking of all of you, and including gratitude to you in my prayers.

As I have statement many times of this forum, I have no interest in proselytizing: giving or receiving. I find such actions on online forums to so frequently be lacking in Christ's love, as seen on this very thread. If anyone wants me to discuss what I truly believe, or the false myths like that entire "expose" I can and am willing to via PM- just shoot me a message. But I don't have any interest in continuing being on this thread with certain individuals.

Again, I thank all of the disciples of Christ on here that have shown His love and real devotion to Him.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

And what if you found that all of your "anti-cult" junk was full of falsehoods and lies? What if you found disciples of Christ? Would you acknowledge that and celebrate it? Or shall you ignore it and continue to cling to your stereotypes?


You have continually attacked me personally. You have continually discounted everything about me with the "i believe you are just in a brainwashed cult". You ignore everything I type and instead and mock me.

You are an abusive person.

Hi, Jane, I've read through a lot of this thread, and I really don't see the abuse you're talking about. It's clear that many basic Mormon beliefs are completely unbiblical. So, are those of us who see this not supposed to refute your claims?

Edit: I would like to add that I've seen real abuse on forums with name calling and mean-spirited comments. I don't see that here.

 

[brakelite]

Isn't it interesting. I can imagine Jane doe sitting back being very amused right now that all those who were at one time United against her, are now arguing with one another. Point being, Jane doe has confessed faith in Christ, and it is before her Master that she stands or falls, not you or me. Now for many reasons I will have no sympathy with Mormonism, both personal and theological, but Jane doe believes in Christ... Of it be the wrong Christ I am certain He will in good time reveal this to her.

Eternal punishment is Biblical.

Indeed it is. But eternal punishing is not.

God is three persons, each with a role. Not one person with three roles.

Uhuh. So Jesus is not truly the only begotten Son of His Father, but only a role He is playing out?

 

[CoreIssue]

Our sister here attempted on more than one occasion to ignore your attacks on the Mormon faith and to focus on her faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but you had no interest in that your only interest was in attacking the system of faith to which she was joined.

All of Babylon is fallen, there is no sect or denomination devised by men which stands approved by God. This applies even to those who say they are non-denominational, for a short investigation would soon reveal that even though not presently a part of any particular sect many nevertheless will be found clinging to some one or another of the various erroneous doctrines taught in these systems.

Thus instead of focusing on what you believe to be wrong in someone else's system of faith, making yourself to appear a hypocrite perhaps you might focus a little bit more on what you may share in common, such as faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

She has professed her faith in Christ Jesus our Lord and that is enough,

“For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones (the divine truths with a corresponding character or), wood, hay, straw (human traditions and errors which generally results in an unstable character), each one’s work will become clear; for the Day (the “Day of Trial”, the “Day of the Lord”) will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire (trouble); and the fire will test each one’s work (their faith and character to determine), of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it (on Christ) endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire (through various trials and testings).” 1 Cor 3:11-15

Which Lord Jesus Christ? The biblical one or the Mormon one?

Mark 13:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 Many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and will deceive many.

 

[amadeus]

No, I was not testifying to that at all. I was testifying that those who are giving me flack are doing so because I testify (as did our Lord) that their deeds are evil.

And she has certainly shown hatred toward me in placing me on Ignore; perhaps you do not classify that as hatred; but I classify it as hatred when a person does what they can to turn off the button that is your voice to them.

Now I will testify to the fact that, yes, those who believe in the doctrines of Mormonism are a part of the world because they are not in Christ since they believe in a different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible.

Again you miss the main thrust of the message that Jesus brought. It had to with Life. You home in on condemning that with which you disagree. All of us that believe in any measure in God and the message of His Son still see through a glass darkly until and if we attain to the "then". The part that remains in darkness is the part requiring Light, but if you haven't seen it, how could you know what it is? I am not at the "face to face" but I know that I am closer than when first I believed. You must recognize that shortcoming in yourself so as not to quench the Holy Spirit, so as not to limit God.

The only limit on God is you and me and anyone else who won't allow Him into every dark corner.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Our sister here attempted on more than one occasion to ignore your attacks on the Mormon faith and to focus on her faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, but you had no interest in that your only interest was in attacking the system of faith to which she was joined.

All of Babylon is fallen, there is no sect or denomination devised by men which stands approved by God. This applies even to those who say they are non-denominational, for a short investigation would soon reveal that even though not presently a part of any particular sect many nevertheless will be found clinging to some one or another of the various erroneous doctrines taught in these systems.

Thus instead of focusing on what you believe to be wrong in someone else's system of faith, making yourself to appear a hypocrite perhaps you might focus a little bit more on what you may share in common, such as faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

She has professed her faith in Christ Jesus our Lord and that is enough,

“For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones (the divine truths with a corresponding character or), wood, hay, straw (human traditions and errors which generally results in an unstable character), each one’s work will become clear; for the Day (the “Day of Trial”, the “Day of the Lord”) will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire (trouble); and the fire will test each one’s work (their faith and character to determine), of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it (on Christ) endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire (through various trials and testings).” 1 Cor 3:11-15

You don't see the importance of exposing belief systems that are unbiblical? Many Mormon doctrines are contrary to Bible truth. It is a cult. I have relatives who are Mormon, so I looked into their beliefs years ago and was shocked by what they REALLY believe.

I understand people on this forum wanting to support Jane, but I pray that no one is drawn into Mormonism based on anything said in this thread that's in favor of their beliefs. I really do!

 

[amadeus]

The evidence that Joseph Smith is a false prophet based in chapters 4, 5 & 6 of the expose.



History does not bear out that this is true. Many souls have come to faith in Jesus Christ as the result of sitting under the preaching of a sermon by a pastor wherein they did not have the ability to converse back (or heckle).

And as a matter of fact, the more fertile type of soil is that which is not among thorns; and God even tells us not to sow among them in Jeremiah 4:3.

I have a problem with history written by someone I don't know or have not known. Those with power usually control or impact greatly in their own favor what is or is not written. That is not my conclusion alone, but it does seemingly often fit the situation considering what men are and what they are not. The only One we can always trust is God.

 

[CoreIssue]

CI, I am a active temple attending member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Sainte. I am EXTREMELY well studied and have dealt with the false information you're putting on here for decades. It gets extremely old dealing with the same misrepresentation over and over again. If you're interested in improving your information, feel free to PM me and I'll gladly & thoroughly go over the truths and the history of the fiction with you. If you're not interested, that's your choice.

Interesting considering only men can be temple Mormons.

How about ships with transparent glass? Elephants, horses, pigs? All in 2400 BC South America.

I'm half Indian. And in a recent DNA test, not one speck of Jew, just like other Indians in the Americas. My ancestors came from Asiaand Europe, mainly Scotland..

So if you think I'm not well studied, think again.

 

[amadeus]

Mormonism has another God. They have another Christ. They have another salvation. They add the Bible the book of Mormon and say it is part of the Bible.

If you don't think that's enough to say they're not Christian, wow.

The Bible tells us there are many Christ. So just professing Christ is meaningless unless you know which one they're talking about.

Time to get past inserting the Holy Spirit in every other sentence. We already agreed it is study guided by the holy spirit.

True or not, you seem to imply Bible studies not needed in the Holy Spirit enough. Which is most assuredly not biblical. God gave us the Bible for a reason.

If she is not a Mormon then why does she defended why hasn't she left?

I am not here trying to convince anyone that Mormonism it the best way to go. On the contrary I am hopefully pointing people to the Way, God's Way. It is not by busily working in condemnation of any group or person. Anyone who is condemned is condemned by what they have or have not done that was needed. Jesus told us who was condemned:

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

Don't try to fit your own doctrine or opinion into that. Ask God to help you move wherever He wants you to go.

I do not imply that Bible study is not needed or is useless. I have studied my Bibles in English, German and Spanish daily for a great many years. If I did not believe it was necessary or important, why would I bother? However, a person looking for things for his own purposes, in his own spirit, instead of for God's purpose as led by the Holy Spirit, will not discover God's truth.

Many people believing that already have truth seek support for their viewpoint in the scriptures instead seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. They quench the Holy Spirit and presume God is pleased with their foolishness. This is their delusion. They love their churches or their doctrines instead of loving the truth they have not seen yet. Therein lies the pathway to delusion.

 

[CoreIssue]

For anyone interested, here are the Mormon sacred writings

Sacred Texts: Mormons

Failed Mormon prophecies
Failed Mormon Prophacies

 

[CoreIssue]

I am not here trying to convince anyone that Mormonism it the best way to go. On the contrary I am hopefully pointing people to the Way, God's Way. It is not by busily working in condemnation of any group or person. Anyone who is condemned is condemned by what they have or have not done that was needed. Jesus told us who was condemned:

"He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:18

Don't try to fit your own doctrine or opinion into that. Ask God to help you move wherever He wants you to go.

I do not imply that Bible study is not needed or is useless. I have studied my Bibles in English, German and Spanish daily for a great many years. If I did not believe it was necessary or important, why would I bother? However, a person looking for things for his own purposes, in his own spirit, instead of for God's purpose as led by the Holy Spirit, will not discover God's truth.

Many people believing that already have truth seek support for their viewpoint in the scriptures instead seeking first the kingdom of God and His righteousness. They quench the Holy Spirit and presume God is pleased with their foolishness. This is their delusion. They love their churches or their doctrines instead of loving the truth they have not seen yet. Therein lies the pathway to delusion.

You are defending a cult.
You cannot get anybody out of a cult without confronting them.

 

[Blueberry]

Which Lord Jesus Christ? The biblical one or the Mormon one?

Very important point. I think the distinction is worth ferreting out. It starts with the particular view of the Trinity that the LDS has. That sometimes has them be accused of being polytheists. Their "unity" versus "consubstantiality" version of the Godhead.

In short, as I understand it, that the unity Godhead consists of three distinct Persons, unified in purpose, thought, will and perfection. Whereas the consubstantiality model (Catholic, Protestant, Nondenominational) says there are three distinct Persons, unified in purpose, thought, will and perfection but also made of the same substance.

Now, as I understand it, the Unity model has the three distinct Persons made of the same substance as well. The same substance that we too are made of. (Thus our potential to ultimately be 'Exalted' into the Godhead ourselves if we reach enough perfection.)

This is not true in the consubstantiality Athanasian model. That sees God as unique from us, our essence and substance.

This has a great influence on exactly how the two viewpoints differ in regards to who Christ truly is. And what His sacrifice was meant to accomplish. And what placing our faith in Him means in its entirety and eternally.

I do not question the LDS statement of belief that 'Jesus' and his blood sacrifice is essential to our salvation. But you may be surprised to discover what not bothering to place your faith in Jesus means to the LDS? In most cases, just the lower level of the Terrestrial Kingdom. As they claim one has to try really hard to make it to Hell.

It is a dangerous thing to suggest one can ignore Christ and still go to a 'lesser heaven'. A Heaven still described as unimaginable bliss. This is not something the Jesus that I understand from the Protestant Bible says about Himself. That He directly refutes such thinking. Unless one accepts the LDS teaching that the Father only resides in the Celestial Kingdom and that only (some) Exalted LDS saints will be able to enter and be with, and be like, the Father when they join the Godhead.

I do not think that is what Jesus in the protestant Bible was intending to be understood by His words. The Trinity it seems according to LDS teachings, will always be the Godhead, but will not consists of only three 'gods' ultimately. That we can potentially become equal to Jesus as 'co-children' who attained equal character and perfection to Christ, but not ever equal to the Father.

I am not perfect as neither is anyone else. My understanding is not perfect. I welcome any direct theological correction regarding my above statements. Hopefully beyond a vague and meaningless "just plain wrong" retort.

 

[CoreIssue]

Isn't it interesting. I can imagine Jane doe sitting back being very amused right now that all those who were at one time United against her, are now arguing with one another. Point being, Jane doe has confessed faith in Christ, and it is before her Master that she stands or falls, not you or me. Now for many reasons I will have no sympathy with Mormonism, both personal and theological, but Jane doe believes in Christ... Of it be the wrong Christ I am certain He will in good time reveal this to her.


Indeed it is. But eternal punishing is not.

Uhuh. So Jesus is not truly the only begotten Son of His Father, but only a role He is playing out?

Jesus the flesh and blood man is the son of God. But his spirit is God and not the son of God.

Eternal punishment is not eternal punishing? That makes no sense.

At the white throne judgment God assigns each individual their punishment that last for eternity.

Revelation 14:9-11 New International Version (NIV)
9 A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.”

Annihilation is nonbiblical.