Expose on Mormonism.

[justbyfaith]

@mjrhealth,

You should probably consider Romans 10:13-17.

 

[mjrhealth]

@mjrhealth,

You should probably consider Romans 10:13-17.

than you may consider that many have heard and till dont believe, God created the universe, dont you think He cant reach everyone without men getting involved. How men limit God so...

 

[justbyfaith]

How men limit God so...

Even men who were taught of the Lord, like Paul the apostle...

 

[justbyfaith]

God can certainly speak to us in our dreams and by any venue He chooses; however He has chosen to operate through preachers of the gospel message for the most part. As the scripture that I referenced above might show you. Here it is again: Romans 10:13-17.

 

[mjrhealth]

God can certainly speak to us in our dreams and by any venue He chooses; however He has chosen to operate through preachers of the gospel message for the most part. As the scripture that I referenced above might show you. Here it is again: Romans 10:13-17.

And so does the devil, but that was the OT not the new T.

Jer_2:8 The priests said not, Where is the LORD? and they that handle the law knew me not: the pastors also transgressed against me, and the prophets prophesied by Baal, and walked after things that do not profit.
Jer_3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
Jer_10:21 For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.
Jer_12:10 Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.
Jer_22:22 The wind shall eat up all thy pastors, and thy lovers shall go into captivity: surely then shalt thou be ashamed and confounded for all thy wickedness.
Jer_23:1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.
Jer_23:2 Therefore thus saith the LORD God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the LORD.

and still is same today.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jeremiah 3:15 stands out among the verses that you have quoted.

 

[mjrhealth]

This one even more so

Mar 10:42 But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
Mar 10:43 But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
Mar 10:44 And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

But you wil lhave your religions, not Gods plan for man.

 

[justbyfaith]

If you want to be great in God's kingdom, learn to be the servant of all...

Yes, I try to live by that. Possibly from ungodly motivations...

 

[Harvest 1874]

I am not the only one who classifies Mormonism (not "Mormons") as a cult. It should be pretty clear that orthodox Christianity classifies Mormonism as a cult.

That would be the pot calling the kettle black, orthodox Christianity i.e. Babylon, the professing or nominal church by the same definition (ever since its fall into apostasy) is likewise a cult if you will, one which has ensnared many of the Lord's people. If it were not, then the Lord would not be calling his people to come out from her.

Now the doctrines of Mormonism are a belief system that, no doubt, produces a people that appear to be righteous (see 2 Corinthians 11:13-15). And maybe they even are righteous according to every outward standard of conduct.

Sounds like you’re describing the orthodox church the majority of whom possess an (outward) form of godliness, who with their lips draw near to God (with praises, hymns and exhortations), but whose hearts are far from him, whose fear (reverence) for God is taught by the doctrines and precepts of men. (Isa 29:13; Psa 12:2; 2 Tim 3:5)

Formality of worship and service has taken the place of heart-worship. It is not sufficient enough that we make a mere profession of faith, for the "Lord looks upon the heart." (1 Sam. 16:7) It is the heart of the man which only the Lord can see which determines whether or not the individuals faith in Him be true or not, not what professions they make nor what others might think.

Many of the Lord's true people are still trapped in Babylon, this includes all the orthodox or professing churches as well as those deemed by the same as cults, and as such many whether knowingly or not hold to many of the erroneous doctrines taught in those systems, but now here at the end of the age the Lord is bidding his people to come out of these systems. Whether they heed or not is their own decision, such will have to suffer the consequences of that decision (Rev 18:4).

 

[Harvest 1874]

She is promoting "Another Testament of Jesus Christ" simply by saying that she believes in it and by putting her best foot forward.

And likewise do many in the Orthodox Church preach “another gospel” every time they preach that eternal torment is the wages of sin, a God dishonoring and blasphemes doctrine which the Apostle Paul who shun not to declare the whole consul of the word of God would be totally ashamed. The bondage of fear (fear of eternal torment) instead of love fails to hold the penitent or draw him near to the Lord. The Lord would have his people free from this fear taught through the doctrines of men and devils, though not free from a proper reverence toward him.

 

[CoreIssue]

@CoreIssue,

In post #117, you have some of what @amadeus said and it is not under quote form. That might be confusing for someone. Just a head's up so you can fix it.

He packed in so much it is hard to deal with. More and shorter posts would be better I believe.

 

[CoreIssue]

And likewise do many in the Orthodox Church preach “another gospel” every time they preach that eternal torment is the wages of sin, a God dishonoring and blasphemes doctrine which the Apostle Paul who shun not to declare the whole consul of the word of God would be totally ashamed. The bondage of fear (fear of eternal torment) instead of love fails to hold the penitent or draw him near to the Lord. The Lord would have his people free from this fear taught through the doctrines of men and devils, though not free from a proper reverence toward him.

What are you calling Orthodox, for clarity?

Eternal punishment is Biblical.

 

[CoreIssue]

What you said about Oneness doesn't bother me. I have been baptized by immersion in Jesus' name four times and I consider myself to be a true Trinitarian. I do feel that some who think that they believe in the Trinity, actually believe in Tritheism, however; which is relevant to the discussion on Mormonism since Mormons are verily Tritheists and then Polytheists in their theology. I am also very secure in my faith as a Oneness Pentecostal (I consider myself to be such because of my baptisms, not because of my understanding of the Trinity, which I think may differ from that of most Oneness Pentecostals since I was never indoctrinated by the church; but I could be wrong).

Polytheists, I agree. Untold numbers of gods.

God is three persons, each with a role. Not one person with three roles.

 

[farouk]

If you want to be great in God's kingdom, learn to be the servant of all...

Yes, I try to live by that. Possibly from ungodly motivations...

Mark Gospel indeed portrays the Lord Jesus as the Perfect Servant.

 

[justbyfaith]

And likewise do many in the Orthodox Church preach “another gospel” every time they preach that eternal torment is the wages of sin,

The fact that eternal torment is the wages of sin, I think, is the bad news that helps us to receive the good news (identified as gospel).

Verses to consider; Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:9-11, Revelation 20:10, Revelation 20:15.

God is three persons, each with a role. Not one person with three roles.

I think I agree that God is three Persons; however each individual within the Trinity is the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6). Who can fathom what this means?

I think that I understand it simply that God (the Father) became a Man in the incarnation; and that the incarnated God is a different Person, since he was on earth, than the Person who stayed behind in eternity to govern world events; since God cannot vacate eternity in order to become a Man (see Ephesians 3:11).

 

[Harvest 1874]

What are you calling Orthodox, for clarity?

Orthodoxy would be the professing church, the church nominal which now holds sway over Christendom and determines what is and what is not acceptable as truth, i.e. what is “orthodox”, meaning “correct or sound doctrine”. Those who are members of orthodoxy (regardless of whether or not they are joined to one of various sects of Christendom) are those who hold to the common or majority held views governing the teachings of the scriptures as prescribed by the professing church.

Now everybody claims the word orthodox, for no one, could conscientiously hold to anything he considered unsound or incorrect. But in applying the term to others is the difficulty: how for instance can a Methodist agree that Presbyterian doctrine of fore-ordination and predestination is correct or "orthodox" and still refuse to accept it? Or how can a Presbyterian agree that Methodist doctrine is "orthodox" when it differs so radically from his own? And how can Disciples and Baptists recognize as "orthodox" or correct and sound those doctrines taught by others, which ignore water immersion, which Baptists and Disciples strenuously claim is absolutely essential to a membership in the Church of Christ, and to the salvation which they claim is provided only for the Church?

The fact is that the various sects were much more consistent when they each denied that the other was "orthodox" and each claimed that it alone was the "orthodox," the correct and doctrinally sound church. There is considerable similarity between the scribes and Pharisees of our Lord's Day and so-called orthodox Christians of our day. In some denominations particularly, there is evidenced the same spirit of despising others outside their favored cult.

Eternal punishment is Biblical.

Eternal extinction of being “second death” is Biblical; eternal (life) in torment is not, “The wages of sin is death”, nothing more nothing less. “He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son shall not see life (in any form or fashion).” 1 John 5:12

 

[justbyfaith]

Eternal extinction of being “second death” is Biblical; eternal (life) in torment is not, “The wages of sin is death”, nothing more nothing less.

The fact that eternal torment is the wages of sin, I think, is the bad news that helps us to receive the good news (identified as gospel).

Verses to consider; Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:9-11, Revelation 20:10, Revelation 20:15.

 

[Harvest 1874]

The fact that eternal torment is the wages of sin, I think, is the bad news that helps us to receive the good news (identified as gospel).

Verses to consider; Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:9-11, Revelation 20:10, Revelation 20:15.

The “fact”? There is no fact, the scriptures you reference are all used in a metaphoric and symbolic manner and are not to be understood as literal statements. I believe we have already covered all these under our blog post entitled A Great Blasphemy (Eternal Torment) and so will not go into all that here.

 

[CoreIssue]

I think I agree that God is three Persons; however each individual within the Trinity is the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6). Who can fathom what this means?

I think that I understand it simply that God (the Father) became a Man in the incarnation; and that the incarnated God is a different Person, since he was on earth, than the Person who stayed behind in eternity to govern world events; since God cannot vacate eternity in order to become a Man (see Ephesians 3:11).

Remember, God is spirit not flesh. But the Holy Spirit is one person within that Trinity of spirits,

There was no God the father until the flesh of Jesus was created and the second person of the Trinity entered it. The first person of the Trinity through the third person of the Trinity created that flesh, thus the title of father. Same principle as some inventors being called the father of this or that.

Elohim is the plural of el meaning three persons or more.

Ephesians does not say God cannot vacating eternity, if by that you mean a place.

If you mean he exist eternally cannot die, no he cannot. But the flesh he took on could.

Jesus is a human, just like us.

Just like us he has the soul, which is a component of the flesh with our desires, motivations, etc. he has flesh as we do. He has an eternal spirit. As we do. But here's is the second person of the Trinity while ours is us.

His flesh is not God yours is soul. Only his spirit.

That does not mean you get to people living in one body. It means his humanity working with his divinity is a single person in human terms.

Destroy his body and God is left.

I understand the biblical truth about it. But being able to fully grasp its realities is some else.

I struggle with the reality of my flesh not being the completeness of me.

 

[justbyfaith]

the scriptures you reference are all used in a metaphoric and symbolic manner and are not to be understood as literal statements.

Says you...Now those who are of the world will listen to you rather than me per 1 John 4:5-6.

Remember, God is spirit not flesh. But the Holy Spirit is one person within that Trinity of spirits,

God is not three Spirits. There is only one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4).

There was no God the father until the flesh of Jesus was created and the second person of the Trinity entered it.

God the Father is self-existent and always was. And it was the 1st Person of the Trinity who took on an added nature of human flesh in order to become the 2nd. The 3rd came about when he released His Spirit back to Himself.

Ephesians does not say God cannot vacating eternity, if by that you mean a place.

Perhaps not, but I consider it to be a first truth, that if a Person dwells throughout eternity, their descending would not mean that they would cease to dwell throughout eternity. The nature of eternity requires this, if you can wrap your mind around the concepts.

He has an eternal spirit.

God is one eternal Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:23-24, John 7:37-39, Colossians 1:27)

His flesh is not God yours is soul. Only his spirit.

This to me is gibberish.

That does not mean you get to people living in one body. It means his humanity working with his divinity is a single person in human terms.

Again, gibberish.

I understand the biblical truth about it.

I don't think you do. If you did you would be able to articulate it more clearly.