There are so many versions of the Godhead/Trinity of we asked everyone on this forum what they sincerely believe to be what the scriptures actually teach, we will get almost as many answers as there are members. Why is that one may well ask? Because they go way beyond what the scriptures actually teach, and are divided not on what is truth, but on what is church dogma or personal opinion. If we would but limit ourselves to what is revealed, and ask no further questions on matters none of our business, we would find far greater consensus.
Expose on Mormonism.
- Thread starter justbyfaith
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Hey brakelite!
I do appreciate what you are saying.
About the only other one that I am familiar with is Modalism. Which I intentionally left out to avoid confusion. And must admit that as a more or less Protestant Christian, I somewhat confused Modalism with the Nicene Creed version of the Trinity when just a babe. Which I actually meant when I said Athanasian [Creed] before. I definitely believe in three distinct Persons, but one God. Instead of one God taking on three different roles at different non-simultaneous times as Modalism claims.
The Apostles Creed falling short of explicitly stating the divinity of Jesus or the Holy Spirit.
I am much less interested in consensus than in Truth.
The true church of Jesus Christ is an invisible body, I will agree with you there...and we are to find Him in His word. Certain denominations and sects know how to lead a man to Jesus, so that he can be approved by God through faith in Him.
The Jesus of Mormonism is a foundation other than the foundation that was laid by Paul, 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (kjv), Galatians 1:8.
Jane is not being entirely truthful here. It is her interest, and even her aim, to proselytize, by gaining the approval and thus the confidence of those who have disliked having been proselytized in the past. Thus 1 John 4:5 holds true concerning what she is here to sell you.
Perhaps even through this thread, I can imagine.
So you are one who promotes revisionist history.
I would say to that, that even in most churches, people come to faith in Jesus Christ not through a discussion but through having heard a convicting message from a pastor/teacher/preacher.
Not there; but elsewhere in the Bible (Jeremiah 1:10).
Because she is subtly promoting a false religion that will put people in the lake of fire ultimately.
Verses that have a bearing on this are Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46, Revelation 14:9-11, Revelation 20:10, Revelation 20:15. These verses all proclaim to a certain extent that those who will be punished will be painfully aware of what they will be going through.
If a small amount of arsenic is hidden in a glass of milk, even 1%, it will kill you if you drink it. Thing is, if you don't know that the arsenic is in there, you are very likely to drink it and will thereby lose your life.
Last edited:
Being baptized in Jesus' Name will solve the heart problem that keeps most people from understanding the Trinity and believing in it as it truly is (as long as you are not indoctrinated immediately afterward with extra-biblical sources).
brakelite said: ↑
Make all the sense in the world of you are honest. What is the wages of sin? Death yes? So death is the eternal punishment yes? How then can someone who is dead be aware they are being punished?
Malachi 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Isa 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Make all the sense in the world of you are honest. What is the wages of sin? Death yes? So death is the eternal punishment yes? How then can someone who is dead be aware they are being punished?
Seems obvious to me, that those who are still suffering in those fires, aren't dead. Yet. But we all know what happens don't we?
Malachi 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Isa 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Very true. But it is doubtful that the doctrines of Mormonism will be promoted as good wine by Babylon. The cup in her hand is of a far more deceptive danger because already almost the entire Protestant world is partaking of her cup. It won't be long before the rest of the world follow suit.
I think @amadeus was saying the opposite. The victors decide on what history is presented, and always in their favour. And we all know the first casualty of war don't we.
I think it says somewhere in Chronicles that "the war was of God" because there were heavy casualties on both sides.
God is the determiner of who is the victor in any battle or war.
So you are saying that you think that Mormonism is less deceptive than mainstream Protestant Christianity (which is not deceptive at all)? (I assume that this is who you mean by Babylon). Mainstream Protestant Christianity is not Babylon. And it seems that you are very likely another of the "stealth" Mormons on these boards (though you may not admit to it, I would venture to say that you have been influenced by the Book of Mormon in your theology). Because you seem to be another one who is promoting the religion by now attempting to say that it is better than the basic Christian faith.
In Revelation 14:9-11, Revelation 20:10, and Revelation 20:15, they are tormented day and night for ever and ever. Seems like they will never be "dead" the way you are describing it.
Last edited:
Not talking about who the victor is, or who decides that. I'm talking about how that victory is recorded in history. And how that victory cam about, and who were the real protagonists. The first casualty of war is truth. Because the victors decide on what is subsequently recorded once the war is over, you can bet your bottom dollar there will not be w rod recorded disapproving of the victors motives, nor of the means by which he won. Take for example the debate that took place in the early centuries regarding the trinity. We are told that there were two protagonists. Athanasius and Arius. What we aren't told is which had the largest backing in the churches. What we do discover is that nearly all of Arius's writings have been destroyed, therefore what he actually taught is in doubt, and we therefore have to take the word of an unconverted pagan emperor as to how the debate was decided. The subsequent wars against the "Arians" are couched in such terms as defining them as the aggressors, because they were heretics. All defined by the Catholic church...the victor. And now all the Christian world with a few exception holds to the trinity as taught by Athanasius without knowing the alternative...nor willing to discuss the alternative because no-one wants to be branded "heretic". My question is should the debate have even taken place, and did Athanasius and the councils subsequent to the debate take things so far that the result ended up even more heretical than Arius's presumed crimes. If debates today were carried out as that was, and the final decision enforced as that was, we would bow our heads in shame and doubt every point made by the eventual victor.
Then we could discuss the wars between the papacy and the Waldenses...the Hussites...the Albigenses...the Huguenots...who was it and whose writings were destroyed as a result of these wars? Whose records of these events do we have to rely on today if we accepted the word of the Romanists that Protestant historians have it all wrong, criticise them as revisionist and rewrite history to remove any stigma being attached to their cause?
LOL, you don't know me very well do you?
What your description offers is that they never die. Eternal torment by its very nature means (ye shall not surely die). I am simply relating to you what scripture says in its simplest sense. The Hebrew expressions 'for ever and ever' do not express eternality, but to the end of a specific time, and in this context, until they're dead. They, sinners, are fuel for the fire. When the fuel is spent, what happens to the fire?
Last edited by a moderator:
Taken
Well-Known Member
Justbyfaith
Jane_Doe22
Have to say...
If I were interested in what is a Mormon Churches Statement of Faith and Mission Statement; I would visit several Mormon online sites, and read "their" collective view.
If I were interested in what individual Mormons believe; I would seek out some individual Mormons and ask them, their views on their Statement of Faith and opinions on their Churches Mission Statement.
I wouldn't ASK a Catholic, or Baptist, or other outside of the Mormon Church.
I think in the BIG PICTURE, regardless if is a Mormon, Catholic, Baptist, or any denomination;
The Statement of Faith, would Centrally be the SAME....
God, Jesus, Holy Spirit.
The Mission Statement however, may VARY among the numerous denominations, and VARY among the numerous congregates (members) within the numerous denominations.
The Primary MISSION of any denomination...
is to: invite, teach, preach, God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, and encourage men to Believe and Accept and Become Faith filled.
However...the MISSION of every denomination, does NOT STOP THERE.
I would say RARELY does every single congregate or member or visitor, Agree with every single point after point the Church Clery sets forth.
Thus for a THIRD party, to dictate what ANOTHER Church "teaches", automatically means; the THIRD party is an authority on WHAT every individual member of an other Church Believes AND Practices...is ludicrous.
It is insulting to throw a THIRD party's Opinion in the face of a member of another Church and demand they answer for the THIRD party's Opinion.
Just saying..
God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
My contention on this thread is..why pick on her?
I find a LOT of posts , by MANY christians, of all walks of christianity on this Site ...have posted the most loopy and strange beliefs!!
It is so easy to judge other peoples hearts ...yet leave our own unchallenged. I think we will find that our own hearts are not quite as holy and we think that they are!
As I said earlier...it is so easy to start a thread like this one "against" something we don't believe.. ie, lets bash the Catholics, lets bash the Mormons, lets bash those who speak in tongues.
Yet we note that very few threads are started to Glorify the the Lord.
Much easier to just argue some point...about some stupid subject which changes nothing in our hearts or moves us one inch closer to our precious Lord.
I am finding less and less any threads that I am interested in posting on....I read, and find just endless discussions about meaningless things.
So I look, and I leave again...hoping that the next time I come on here I will see some life among the dead bones.
I understand what you're saying, but I don't see what JusBbyFaith is doing as picking on her. I've called out plenty of people on this forum for rudeness. I just don't believe that he is being rude, or I probably would have said something to him myself. I do know what you're saying about bashing, and I agree. I've been bashed.
Personally, I think it's so important to expose doctrines that are clearly unbiblical. And this seems to be what he is doing. We have no idea who is reading the comments in any given forum. If error goes unchallenged, then someone may be deceived.
I must admit I'm kind of shocked that anyone on a Christian forum would defend Mormon beliefs in any way. Mormonism is not just another denomination like Methodists or Lutherans.... As I said before, their beliefs veer widely from Bible truth and need to be exposed as such. Of course, I'm not saying that anyone should be hateful toward Mormons, and I don't believe that JustByFaith has been....
.
Last edited:
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
Have you read through this thread? Mormon sources have been quoted in order to refute their false doctrines. Like I said in the post above this one, Mormonism is not just another denomination; they're doctrine veers widely from basic truths of the Bible.
No doubt this book will be maligned, but if you want to understand the errors of Mormonism, read The God Makers cowritten by a man who was a Mormon for 19 years and learned the inner workings and hidden doctrines of Mormonism.
.
Last edited:
Taken
Well-Known Member
Summarized here, the Articles of Faith state Mormon beliefs: mormon.org reference
1. We believe in God the Father; His Son, Jesus Christ; and the Holy Ghost.
2. That men will be punished only for their own sins and not for Adam’s transgression.
3. That through Christ’s Atonement, we can be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.
4. That faith in Jesus Christ, repentance, baptism by immersion, confirmation, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost are all necessary for salvation.
5. That leaders and teachers in the Church must be chosen and ordained by priesthood power.
6. That Christ’s Church today is organized as it was when He first established it.
7. In modern-day revelation and priesthood healing and blessing.
8. That the Bible and Book of Mormon are both divinely revealed scripture.
9. That God has communicated with and will continue to communicate with humankind.
10. In the literal gathering of Israel and the restoration of the ten tribes, and that Zion will be built on the American continent when Christ reigns on the earth.
11. In worshipping God according to our own dictates and allowing others to do likewise.
12. In sustaining the laws and leaders of the land.
13. In being “honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men.”
__________________________________
Although this ^ is called their "Articles of Faith"...in summary I would call #1, their Statemen of FAITH and the rest their MISSION Statement.
A Doctrine is something else, but not entirely.
A Doctrine includes all their Beliefs, How they will teach, How they will instruct, and a set of Principles to accomplish those things.
My point is:
All churches have a Statement of Faith.
It is their CORE Belief.
What ALL they want to teach, and a chosen Principled Fashion is typically outlined in their MISSION Statement.
[These things are simply an outline for anyone to read, that they might have their interest sparked to go and attend and hear, and maybe join up with them.)
And the Doctrine, the Teachings, the Instructions, the Rules, etc. is effected on a regular basis, at Service and study times they appoint.
Personally for me...The Statement of Faith is Paramount, regardless of what their place of worship is called or the congregates are called.
It is when one gets into a Churches Mission and Doctrine and practices thereof, that people either jump on board, or shun away, (and then typically criticize what they find off kilter.)
To me it does not matter the "Group", men are not perfect, and there will be weird, corrupt, things that occur within a Church's clerics/employees and the Church's body of members. Some will go along with it, or help conceal it, or not know about it, or be appalled and walk away.
You mention a guy, presumably a devout Mormon for 19 years, then decided they were some sort of cult. 19 years? 19 Years?
Was he simply a LISTENER and NOT a VERIFIER? Because that IS BASIC.. Verify!
Obviously, no I have not read that guys book, nor will I.
God Bless,
Merry Christmas,
Taken
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
Merry Christmas to you too!
Yeah, sadly some people are deceived even longer than 19 years! (My relatives have been.) The author was a member of the "Melchizedek Priesthood" and a "Temple Mormon," according to his bio. So, he was VERY involved and even sold out as a Mormon.
I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish--convince me that Mormonism isn't a cult? Not going to happen. I know too much. Just curious, have you ever been a Mormon?
Edit: I will add this one thing. Like with most cults, the everyday people in the cult don't know all of the beliefs of that cult. This is true with Mormonism. There are practices and beliefs only revealed to the inner temple crowd. Any time a group hides some of its beliefs from the rank and file, that's problematic, IMHO. Perhaps you should educate yourself about this.
Edit #2: Taken, do you agree with this Mormon doctrine?
Doctrine and Covenants, 130:22
22 The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.
Or this one:
Doctrine and Covenants, 132:20
20 Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore shall they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.
Or how about this from lds.org:
Becoming Like God
"Latter-day Saints see all people as children of God in a full and complete sense; they consider every person divine in origin, nature, and potential. Each has an eternal core and is “a beloved spirit son or daughter of heavenly parents.”1 Each possesses seeds of divinity and must choose whether to live in harmony or tension with that divinity. Through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, all people may “progress toward perfection and ultimately realize their divine destiny.”2 Just as a child can develop the attributes of his or her parents over time, the divine nature that humans inherit can be developed to become like their Heavenly Father's."
(I took these quotes from the other thread on Mormonism in the Welcome Forum. They were posted by Blueberry.)
One more quote (this one from JaneDoe):
"When Christ lived on this earth for 33 years, he had a body like ours-- it got sick, fumbled, etc. Then He was resurrected with a body different than ours -- a perfected one -- doesn't grow hungry or get tired or have any of the short comings ours do."
"LDS believe that the Father likewise as a perfect body." (I'm assuming she means HAS a perfect body....)
Last edited:
Taken
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
Cult ~
a relatively small group of people having religious beliefs or practices regarded by others as strange or sinister.
Cult is one of those words, immediately spoken is suppose to be an evil connotation
(Sort of like discriminate....oooooh evil! Ha).
If you view the meaning of cult, It has more to do with one persons view of an others practices. So can I convince you, you view is not valid? No. Nor am I trying to.
No never entertained the idea. I am not a big fan of name tags. But I have read enough about different "religions" under their name tags, and mission statements, to immediately put a halt to any consideration of delving in to their principles and teachings.
That was my point about Statements of Faith....oh ok cool.
Now what is their MISSION? Oooooh, uh huh, eh not interested, or humm, that might spark someone's interest to learn more and get into their Doctrine.
I've chosen a different way. My "Church" is within me, and is at home, sometimes just me and Lord, other times with family and friends, maybe at the beach, sitting on the patio. There is no alter, flowers, statues, particular set times, pews, no particular clothing, etc. It's everyday. God, His Word, His Power and me getting together.
So, in effect, I don't worry about what OTHER "specifically" identified Churches are doing.
I already noted that. Post #213 , clearly saying some will not know....
So what are you suggesting I "educate myself about"?
I am well aware the BODY "head" always knows more than the BODY itself. Doesn't matter if it is a Parent that is the Head, the Government, a CEO, a Cleric, A Business owner, etc.... I don't particularly mean "smarter", but rather they always have more information in regard to the body they govern over. And what they discuss and do is OFTEN kept secret from the governed body.
If one wants to be IN ON THE Discussion, know the INSIDE information, they have to position themselves to BE on the INSIDE.
God Bless,
Taken
Prayer Warrior
Well-Known Member
I'm suggesting that you educate yourself on what Mormons actually believe. I've given you some quotes from their own sources to consider.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
My contention on this thread is..why pick on her?
I find a LOT of posts , by MANY christians, of all walks of christianity on this Site ...have posted the most loopy and strange beliefs!!
I agree on the Loopy. The distinction is Mormonism is not Christian.
So yes, Christians can say some pretty stupid things, but they are Christians. Cults are not.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Why? I see no benefit to that consuming my time. And further, I am already aware not every single person in ANY congregation believes the exact same things regarding all their "doctrine". Isn't it an individuals own choice to be involved in the place of worship they choose? Are Catholics going to run from their Churches because of scandals and coverups among some Priests? If an individual is content with believing and praising the Lord in their house of prayer...
And hoochie choochie is going on behind closed doors....WHO is accountable for that?
Remember Jesus was not thrilled with the Pharisees, and their uppity, hypocritical, etc. behavior....He did not tell anyone to depart the Church...What Jesus said was; do as they say, not as they do.
Glory to God,
Taken
Helen
Well-Known Member
- Oct 22, 2011
- 15,471
- 21,160
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Canada
The fact is ..he posted his 'anti mormon' post in his OP and then TAGGED Jane Doe, so it would show up in her ALERT'S
In anyones book...that is making it personal.
I am finding more and more that many on this "christian" Site fit right in here with their attitudes....still with no clue as to the Father heart of God.
Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
.... his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But He turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. "
And...more and more I am finding that I do not fit in on this Site.
2 Corinthians 3:
6 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."
I get no joy reading post after post on here that does nothing but take the letter of the word and beat people over the head with it.
It seems that is the only thing their bibles are used for ...to "win my argument' and 'beat someone else on the head with it'...nag at anyone who does not fit in to 'my' way of thinking. The scripture quoted above is very apt.
And where is the charity in what you are selling? Without charity what do we have?
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
I Cor 13:1-3
I presume you mean I believe people have written or have had written histories that favor their own cause without great concern for giving a truthful report. That is so. It is how people usually are. If the phrase, "revisionist history" has some other particular meaning, I don't know what it is. You would have to define your term for me to respond.
Probably true, but then when I first was saved the preacher was a woman. Many might question such an occurrence because of course some would say that God never calls women to preach as in...: 'Women cannot possibly utter a convicting message.' Do we presume the same thing is so for every Mormon or do we let the Holy Spirit in us doing the discerning and the leading on a case by case basis?
See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant." Jerem 1:10
Was God speaking to you with those words? What is your result going to be if you are leading rather than following the Holy Spirit?
Last edited:
Similar threads
