Extra Virgin Olive Oil (a parable)
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BeyondET
Well-Known Member
That's part of the parable, not an addition--
But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Look, the bridegroom is here! Come out to meet him.’ Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps.
BeyondET
Well-Known Member
Right but the extra isn't. They all had the same amount. Its about the trimming to make it last longer.
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Again, it’s a part of the parable. Some (five) brought an ‘extra’ flask of oil.
BeyondET
Well-Known Member
It went over my head, your correct sorry, I didn't see it in the verses paragraphed.
No harm no foul— I probably added to your confusion with the play on words.
Wisdom is something that is gained by working for it. That is, by doing the right thing, by sacrificing yourself for others, giving your sweat and blood. Mankind was put on this earth to toil, and by toiling we find redemption. Another way of looking at holiness is the relationship between toil and bread:
Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.
Matthew 4:4
But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Matthew 26:26
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
So, for example, how are you supposed to ever realize that your enemy isn't really your enemy, if you don't treat them with kindness and approach in reconciliation? Or how are you ever to be free of the shackles of material greed unless you give freely to all who ask? You have to live by God's teachings to understand just what they mean. God's punishment for Mankind, of toiling, only seems like a punishment superficially, but it is actually a blessing, because it is through using one's hands to make the world a better place that a man finds contentment in his life.
In both parables (talents and the olive oil), the market represents the same thing, the community. Go into the public and share your wisdom with others and receive theirs. There are people (pastors, rabbis, etc.) who can be compared to moneychangers, they make their profession of hearing and offering wisdom, "exchanging" it and making it grow.
So another way to look at the first parable is, two groups of virgins. One followed the commandments but did nothing extra, the other followed the commandments but did extra out of love. So then in the ones who followed by rote, the holy spirit fled them. They were told to go seek wisdom and whoops while they were trying to figure things out in their life, they suffered judgement before they had their answers. The Holy Spirit will elude those who do not show fruits.
Luke 3
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
In the story of the talents, the two wise servants had been given some wisdom according to their prior deeds, and the other had been given little. The one who had little, hid his wisdom. I interpret this as the same: they followed the commandments by rote but not out of love or understanding. He didn't know the Master, he thought the master was a cruel man ("all sinners go to hell for eternity!"), and didn't want to step out of what was prescribed for him, but the Master told him, all you had to do was go to the market and share what I gave you with others (make some donations to the poor, give some good council to people, make friends out of enemies, etc.), and I would have been satisfied, you would have increased your soul, but instead you lived your whole life and learnt nothing so now you will lament. It's worth mentioning that the unprofitable servant thought he was doing the right thing - "come collect, I've kept what you've given me!" or in other words "Hey I've read the Bible, that makes me a good Christian, right?" so he was quite surprised when he was thrown out because he didn't put into practice what he learnt.
Genesis 3:19
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
2 Thessalonians 3:10
For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.
Matthew 4:4
But he answered, “It is written, “‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
Matthew 26:26
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”
So, for example, how are you supposed to ever realize that your enemy isn't really your enemy, if you don't treat them with kindness and approach in reconciliation? Or how are you ever to be free of the shackles of material greed unless you give freely to all who ask? You have to live by God's teachings to understand just what they mean. God's punishment for Mankind, of toiling, only seems like a punishment superficially, but it is actually a blessing, because it is through using one's hands to make the world a better place that a man finds contentment in his life.
In both parables (talents and the olive oil), the market represents the same thing, the community. Go into the public and share your wisdom with others and receive theirs. There are people (pastors, rabbis, etc.) who can be compared to moneychangers, they make their profession of hearing and offering wisdom, "exchanging" it and making it grow.
So another way to look at the first parable is, two groups of virgins. One followed the commandments but did nothing extra, the other followed the commandments but did extra out of love. So then in the ones who followed by rote, the holy spirit fled them. They were told to go seek wisdom and whoops while they were trying to figure things out in their life, they suffered judgement before they had their answers. The Holy Spirit will elude those who do not show fruits.
Luke 3
8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
9 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: every tree therefore which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
In the story of the talents, the two wise servants had been given some wisdom according to their prior deeds, and the other had been given little. The one who had little, hid his wisdom. I interpret this as the same: they followed the commandments by rote but not out of love or understanding. He didn't know the Master, he thought the master was a cruel man ("all sinners go to hell for eternity!"), and didn't want to step out of what was prescribed for him, but the Master told him, all you had to do was go to the market and share what I gave you with others (make some donations to the poor, give some good council to people, make friends out of enemies, etc.), and I would have been satisfied, you would have increased your soul, but instead you lived your whole life and learnt nothing so now you will lament. It's worth mentioning that the unprofitable servant thought he was doing the right thing - "come collect, I've kept what you've given me!" or in other words "Hey I've read the Bible, that makes me a good Christian, right?" so he was quite surprised when he was thrown out because he didn't put into practice what he learnt.
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There are two kinds of wisdom-- the kind you can make, and the kind that makes you. If you want to compare it to 'bread' as you did above, there are also two kinds of knowledge- the fresh (daily) bread that proceeds from the mouth of God that you mentioned, as opposed to that kind men toil over- made with yeast that puffs up.
One man reads the parables and thinks it's about the market, but Jesus tells us they are about the kingdom of Heaven, not earthly. Still, a surface understanding remains true-- one is about preparedness, the next about diligence. But the intent is not for a true student to come away with wisdom about being ready, or investing in yourself.
One man scoffs at another---- 'You wear a wrist watch? -That thing could fall right off your wrist and you'd lose it... Fool!' But he, in his wisdom has a watch which he keeps in his pocket and that, he attaches to himself with a cord, thinking himself wise. And in his head he thinks of himself that he is like those five wise virgins, being extra prepared--- so he puts on his pants too and secures them with a belt and then attaches suspenders also, just in case.
Is that what the parable teaches? You could make the argument. -but not from the spiritual perspective. Those are earthly issues.
Likewise the parable of the talents is not about any kind of command to donate or share, or make friends as you suppose. Not all were given an equal amount of 'talent' to start with. From the story, it seems the Master would have been satisfied if that one man had done nothing more than plop what he was given in a bank account to collect interest. The admonition it to take whatever you were given and realize an increase. Because that is how the kingdom of heaven expands.
So to take what you are given and increase it, but there is only two things given the context of the Bible that this could refer to: either love, or wisdom. The question being what you would consider the ultimate goal, what you want your spirit to leave this world with, having increased.
So then in either case, it's one thing to have knowledge learnt in a book, and another thing to have knowledge put into practice. Its why so many college graduates are sad to see "5 years experience required" on every job posting. You have receieved the knowledge but that does not mean you have any idea how to act on it, you need training in the real world for a real profit. The pharisees were experts on the Torah, they studied it day and night, they followed all the laws to the letter and lawyered over what was permissable continually - and they killed the messiah. So what did all this knowledge avail them if they spent all their lives treating it as an academic exercise but never experiencing it in the spirit of universal love as it was intended?
Matthew 5
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mark 12
38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
You can't get a job without a degree because you'd have no idea what you're doing, but just getting a degree isn't the end of your learning. When I was very young, I once asked a PhD if getting a Doctorate meant he learnt everything there was to know, he said wisely, that it meant he was just beginning to learn. So it is with the scriptures, knowing them is just the beginning, putting them into practice, is the journey of perfecting your soul.
So then in either case, it's one thing to have knowledge learnt in a book, and another thing to have knowledge put into practice. Its why so many college graduates are sad to see "5 years experience required" on every job posting. You have receieved the knowledge but that does not mean you have any idea how to act on it, you need training in the real world for a real profit. The pharisees were experts on the Torah, they studied it day and night, they followed all the laws to the letter and lawyered over what was permissable continually - and they killed the messiah. So what did all this knowledge avail them if they spent all their lives treating it as an academic exercise but never experiencing it in the spirit of universal love as it was intended?
Matthew 5
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mark 12
38 And he said unto them in his doctrine, Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces,
39 And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:
40 Which devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayers: these shall receive greater damnation.
You can't get a job without a degree because you'd have no idea what you're doing, but just getting a degree isn't the end of your learning. When I was very young, I once asked a PhD if getting a Doctorate meant he learnt everything there was to know, he said wisely, that it meant he was just beginning to learn. So it is with the scriptures, knowing them is just the beginning, putting them into practice, is the journey of perfecting your soul.
This is still worldly focused. It sounds as though it's from the perspective of a frustrated, job-hunting recent college graduate... is it?
Using the imagery that scripture offers, let me ask you a few things, based on your understanding of the spiritual dimension, which is the only place you'll find answers to the questions you posed elsewhere.
What is the purpose of a tree?
Or a garden of trees, or specifically a fruit tree? What is the fruit for?
I think you left off from here, I'm interested in hearing the rest of your ideas on this parable.
Much love!
I will come back to it when time permits. I have some demands of the day to attend.
No, not me. It's just another way of illustrating the idea of being given something (in my example, knowledge of a field) and then using it to gain more of the same, a la the servants being given talents and investing them. Worldly things reflect spiritual things (I would say that the spiritual is like the pattern that the physical weave is based off of, and because it is an underlying pattern, you see the same details again and again in different places). So if you can use currency to gain more currency, then you also use knowledge to build upon knowledge, fruit to grow more fruit, or spirit to build upon spirit.
In both these parables, the virgins and the talents, there is a certain expectation of going out into the world and doing something - buy more olive oil, make more money. Or in other words, don't be idle or half-hearted.
I'm not sure where you're leading me with this so you'll forgive me if I give difficult answers.
Since we're talking about a material thing then I suppose that I would have to give a materialist answer: they have no purpose at all, they simply exist. The tree never grew a fruit thinking "this fruit will grow up to be a tree", it merely expands itself according to a genetic code that defines its growth. It is only because that code has set a certain pattern of behavior that it grows a certain way or has offspring.
A more spiritual answer might be, that it exists to be experienced, and by being experienced (the flesh of the fruit being eaten), the seed is left behind and perpetuates the species' lifecycle.
I left off with the scriptural of these elements from Moses' spiritual experience as recorded in Exodus. Where he went up 'in the cloud' and saw these things he was shown on the mountain of God.
The lamps, the lampstand, and of the oil- he was told that it was to come from the people themselves.
You are to put the table outside the curtain and the lampstand on the south side of the tabernacle, opposite the table, and you are to place the table on the north side.
You are to command the Israelites that they bring to you pure oil of pressed olives for the light, so that the lamps will burn regularly. In the tent of meeting outside the curtain that is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons are to arrange it from evening to morning before the LORD. This is to be a lasting ordinance among the Israelites for generations to come.
The oil comes from the people. All of this refers to heavenly things. Spiritual concepts and principles -things seen and explained to Moses that he then took to heart in a literal sense and after coming down from this encounter with God- he implemented, in careful detail. The beginning of error that cost him entry into the Promised Land. You can't take spiritual concepts and apply literal association. A lamp seen in spirit, is not a lamp. A lampstand is not a lampstand--- not in the literal sense, which Moses mistakenly tripped over.
How do we know this is true?
Scripture tells us what each of these things are. It informs us how to understand the relationship between the heavenly/spiritual concepts and the earthly/physical associations they point toward.
A clear example of this principle comes to us in the account of the prophet Zechariah--
I was attentive that night and saw a man seated on a red horse that stood among some myrtle trees in the ravine. Behind him were red, sorrel, and white horses.
Then I asked one nearby, “What are these, sir?” The angelic messenger who replied to me said, “I will show you what these are.”
The key to understanding for Zechariah (and us) is the recognition that things seen in spirit are not what they appear to be. Zechariah saw horses. Do you think he didn't know what horses were? But still, he asked the angel who was showing him these things-- "What are these, sir?"
If, as in the song says-- 'a horse is a horse, of course, of course....' He wouldn't have had to ask the question.
So then begins the explanation from the angel describing in detail how these things seen in spirit relate to earthly/physical elements and he creates distinct associations, not just of these horses, but later on of these lamps, lampstands, and the oil as well- including it's source.
Are you saying here that Moses shouldn't have made an actual menorah? That he was supposed to do something different?
Much love!
That's one of the things I'm drawing attention to, but it's not me saying it.
It's probably the most overlooked commandment of the ten that Moses himself tells us God told him directly.
You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water below.
Hebrews 8:5 LITV
who serve the pattern of and shadow of heavenly things, even as Moses was divinely warned, being about to make the tabernacle: For He says, "See that you make all things according to the pattern being shown to you in the mount."
There was much detail given about all these things Moses was to make, the tables and altars and structure, the lavers and tools, the menorah, all of these, with specific and detailed instructions on each.
I think that Moses did exactly as he was told. The reason he was not allowed into the promised land is given that he struck the rock instead of speaking to the rock. No?
Much love!
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