Failed Prophecies

[bbyrd009]

We just do not know when

about times and seasons we do not need to tell you, not even the Son but only the Father, these are possibly quite artful tic ways to say "looking for literal future dates is missing the point" and "God only knows when you will hear" keraz

what is prophesied for the end times will take place.

dont forget in these last days was pertinent 2000 years ago too right. hearing of wars and rumors of wars? The time is not yet so the literal thing? world-wide? might happen, someday, sure. But not in this eternity, almost surely. After all, where is Christ "Revealed?"

However we should study the prophesies, 2 Peter 1:19, and we should not be in the dark, 1 Thess 5:3-4, about God's plans for His people.

do you recall what the preacher said as you were going down into the water, and as you were coming up? Why don't we take that literally?

 

[Keraz]

May I put forth an observation? The 6th Seal of Revelation, to all appearances, seems to describe a Theophany.
Then the kings of the earth and the great ones and the generals and the rich and the powerful, and everyone, slave and free, hid themselves in the caves and among the rocks of the mountains, calling to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who is seated on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb, for the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?” -Revelation 6:15–17

If people are calling to be hidden from the face of the one seated on the throne, not just the wrath of the Lamb, then this seems to be speaking of more than just heavenly wrath poured out upon the earth below. Indeed, if we look at other passages in the NT that speak of the Lamb; Christ, coming to judge, both the wicked and just, then it seems to me that we are looking at a Theophany here...Christ's coming. And as I believe the bible only speaks of Christ returning once, I'm not sure how that plays into you above scenario.

This idea requires a shuffling of the Revelation sequence. It is clear that the 7 Seals are first, then the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will happen during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns in glory.

At the Sixth Seal, He 'comes' in fire and is not seen. Psalms 18:11, Habakkuk 3:3-15, Psalms 11:4-6
The Lord will send fire from the sun, that will literally fulfil everything prophesied about His terrible Day of fiery wrath.
It will be the world changing event that will enable a One World Govt to be established and then all of the prophesied things must take place, leading up to Jesus Return for His Millennium reign.

 

[Jay Ross]

As usual, the above is based on the posters extreme bias and false beliefs.
What is required for understanding the Prophesies, isn't pedantic exegesis, but common sense and logical reasoning.
Knowing what it is that the Lord wants of His faithful people is paramount.

As Isaiah 61:2b-11 says; the Lord's faithful people, now every true Christian from every race, Ephesians 2:11-18, will live in all of the holy Land, being the people God always wanted there, but has never yet had.

My dear Keraz, do you really know if the English Translations that you rely on, present an accurate rendition of the original Hebrew Texts. Are the English Translations that you use, to construct your extreme and false beliefs upon, reliable enough to hang your hat on? Remember that you have previously stated that you have no clue as to the accuracy of the English Translation. Your defence is that if enough translations say nearly the same thing, then they all must provide a fairly accurate translation of the source text. However, if all the translations have grown out of the same mistranslation of the source Hebrew text, through the process of Tradition, then all you have done is shown that your "common sense and logical reasoning" is based on very fallible translations. Now, if your source is flawed, then logically, your understanding of Biblical Prophecy is also flawed.

What is contained within the Abrahamic Covenant, given to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, is that the Israelites will be scattered among all the gentile nations to be a blessing to all of the Gentile nations, right up and until the end of the Age of the Ages. It, sadly, is you, Keraz, who has an "extreme bias and false belief" with respect to the End Time Prophecies.

Many of the Prophecies use metaphorical language to describe what will happen, such as, when God, through the prophets, tells Israel that when He gathers Israel to Himself in the future, that He will plant them in the "soil of Israel", it is not a reference about Israel returning to the "Promised Land," but is a reference to the nourishment that Israel will be receiving when God teaches them on/about the "Mountains of Israel," as the Rock which comes down out of Heaven to strike the Daniel 2 statue, will become the highest mountain on the earth, and is a reference to God's teaching on the "religion," for want of a better word, that God requires Israel to embrace at this time.

Since you do not have the ability to comprehend these truths, and do not want to change your position, it is a pointless exercise to explain anything to you to show you the way into God's truth. You firmly believe that your understanding is the only "right" understanding to hold and you keep pushing your flawed understanding, even after others have questioned the understanding that you have and suggested. Your usual form of rebuttal is to be derogatory towards other posters and then to claim that your understanding is right by repeating it all again.

It is as if you believe that if you keep repeating your flawed understanding of the End Times, that it will come true eventually.

Sorry, but God does not work that way.

Shalom

 

[Keraz]

Sorry, but God does not work that way.

Not sorry; God is not a God of confusion!

It is the plainly stated Words of the prophets that is right. If they don't happen, then the whole Bible is worthless.

 

[Naomi25]

what is a sin for you may not be a sin for me,
Romans 14:23 Lexicon: But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because his eating is not from faith; and whatever is not from faith is sin.
all three should agree...yet one guy counted 667, huh

I'm not speaking of issues of conscience which God does give some leeway on because it's based upon us and our particular weaknesses or strengths. What I AM talking about dips back into that area that you and I have already touched on, and we clearly disagree. And having agreed to disagree, I'm not sure it's at all beneficial to dredge it up again, wouldn't you say?!

 

[bbyrd009]

I most certainly think

ok, but this would give me pause, personally

 

[bbyrd009]

Not sorry; God is not a God of confusion!

It is the plainly stated Words of the prophets that is right. If they don't happen, then the whole Bible is worthless.

"stay here for the present"

 

[Naomi25]

This idea requires a shuffling of the Revelation sequence. It is clear that the 7 Seals are first, then the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will happen during the final 3 1/2 years before Jesus Returns in glory.

At the Sixth Seal, He 'comes' in fire and is not seen. Psalms 18:11, Habakkuk 3:3-15, Psalms 11:4-6
The Lord will send fire from the sun, that will literally fulfil everything prophesied about His terrible Day of fiery wrath.
It will be the world changing event that will enable a One World Govt to be established and then all of the prophesied things must take place, leading up to Jesus Return for His Millennium reign.

But, wait...how can he 'come in fire' on the 6th seal and NOT be seen, when the text specifically says that people are screaming that they want to be hidden FROM the face of the one who sits on the throne...a position we are told that the Lamb also shares. If they are seeing God, how can they NOT see Christ?

And, as far as a reshuffling of the sequence of Revelation...should we not allow Revelation to guide us in this itself? Because I find I can never express myself as conceisely as I would wish, here's a rather good summary that I found that discusses the sequence of Revelation:


"Notice that the vision contains two main elements: First, there is a revelation of the present— revelation of “what is now.” The “present,” of course, refers to “what is now” from John’s perspective. Christ offers John a vision of the late first century a.d. in Asia. Second, the Lord promises a revelation of the future— vision of “what will take place later.” Again, this is the “future” from John’s point of view —the period from a.d. 95–96 through Christ’s return and the consummation of the kingdom of God. Which part of the book reveals John’s “present” and which part reveals the “future”? John treats these two subjects in the order in which they are mentioned. His discussion of the “present” appears in 2:1–3:22 and takes the form of seven letters to the churches of Asia. This part of the vision describes the “present” circumstances of the Asian churches from Christ’s point of view.

The Lord’s revelation of the “future” appears in 4:1–22:6, as the structure of the passage makes clear. The first verse of this section (4:1) reads: After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” The initial phrase “After this,” in and of itself, marks a transition—, the end of one discussion and the beginning of another. Christ then introduces the next major portion of the book when he says, “I will show you what must take place after this, ”—that is, “after” the “present” described in chapters 2 and 3. Revelation 4:1 marks the beginning of the promised vision of “what will take place later.” Where does the vision of the future end? After a long series of images we come to Revelation 22:6: The angel said to me, “These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place.” This verse marks the end of John’s discussion of the future. The remainder of the book (22:7–21) consists of a short Epilogue.

By far the largest portion of Revelation describes John’s vision of the future (4:1–22:6). How has the author structured this important part of the book? The revelation of “what will take place later” begins with an introduction (4:1–5:14) in which John describes his new vantage point in heaven (“Come up here, and I will show you”). The prophet will see the future from God’s point of view. The rest of the section (6:1–22:6) contains the revelation of the future itself. However, a careful reading shows that John does not receive one long, sequential vision of the future. Instead, he receives three separate revelations of the complete future from John’s time through the consummation of the kingdom of God.

John describes how the future unfolds in 6:1–8:1. Then he starts over and describes the same period again in 8:2–11:19. Then he reviews the same period a third time in 12:1–22:6. The approach is cyclical, with each vision examining the future from a slightly different angle, and the third vision offering the most detail.

Christopher A. Davis, Revelation; The College Press NIV commentary (Joplin, Mo.: College Press Pub., 2000), 76

 

[Keraz]

But, wait...how can he 'come in fire' on the 6th seal and NOT be seen, when the text specifically says that people are screaming that they want to be hidden FROM the face of the one who sits on the throne...a position we are told that the Lamb also shares. If they are seeing God, how can they NOT see Christ?

Revelation 6:16 doesn't say the people actually see God and the Lamb. They hide so they can't be seen by God.

I provided some of the scriptures that plainly say the Lord will NOT be seen on His Day of fiery wrath. There is more and when it is understood what will happen on that Day, obviously He won't be seen then.
2 Thessalonians 1:10 does say that the Lord will be revealed to His own people soon after that terrible Day. Revelation 14:1

 

[Jay Ross]

Not sorry; God is not a God of confusion!

It is the plainly stated Words of the prophets that is right. If they don't happen, then the whole Bible is worthless.

But if what I say will happen, does happens, then it is your understanding that is worthless. I know that God is not a God of confusion, but I do know that your theories are worthless because they are not in agreement with the words that God has given for us to read in the scriptures, through the writings of the prophets of the OT time period.

Shalom

 

[Naomi25]

Revelation 6:16 doesn't say the people actually see God and the Lamb. They hide so they can't be seen by God.

I provided some of the scriptures that plainly say the Lord will NOT be seen on His Day of fiery wrath. There is more and when it is understood what will happen on that Day, obviously He won't be seen then.
2 Thessalonians 1:10 does say that the Lord will be revealed to His own people soon after that terrible Day. Revelation 14:1

Yeah....see I see that a little like saying "they crucified Christ...but that doesn't actually say they KILLED him". Crucifixion, as we know, is an execution. And people hardly need to hide from a face that is not present, so the fact that they are actively working to hide FROM a face; that tells us something. As should the fact it tells us that 'the great day of their wrath HAS come'.

But, you know, I've given up trying to point out what I see as obvious. So, I suppose knock yourself out with how you read it. I'm hardly going to convince you otherwise, am I? We may as well remain cordial in our disagreement!

 

[bbyrd009]

and not a sound was heard, i guess

 

[Keraz]

and not a sound was heard, i guess

Well, your contributions aren't of much value!

Revelation is the Book that gives us the sequence of end time events. Some parts of it are in parenthesis and fill in details of what will happen at the Sixth Seal and during the Tribulation. But the 7 Seals, 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls will happen as stated.
The first 5 Seals were opened when Jesus ascended to heaven. Revelation 5:6-7

The Seventh Seal is a time gap of about a half hour in heaven. This will be about 20 years of earth time, about right for all that is prophesied to happen before Jesus Returns.

 

[bbyrd009]

lotta is in there, bro, i'd at least contemplate what happens when it doesnt go according to your plan ok.
We all have expectations--the word of the day i guess--but we make our plans, and Yah guides the steps yeh?

Well, your contributions aren't of much value!

i wasnt referring to them, but um ty i guess

 

[Bobby Jo]

I suppose we'll see...won't we.

They say experience is the BEST teacher. But others say it's the WORSE teacher because it gives the test before the lesson. So where you could be INFORMED, you apparently prefer to be UNINFORMED:

1 Thess 5:3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.​

Good luck,
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... What part of no one knows the day you not getting...??? ...

You're either not coherent, or not honest. The question is simple: If Scripture says we can't know the "DAY or the HOUR", can we know the Week; Month; Season; Year (1); Decade (10); Score (20); Century (100); Daytona (500); and Millennia (1,000)?

And it's ok if you choose to be dishonest and avoid answering the question. Many in the church are dishonest, so you have a LOT of company.
Bobby Jo

 

[n2thelight]

You're either not coherent, or not honest. The question is simple: If Scripture says we can't know the "DAY or the HOUR", can we know the Week; Month; Season; Year (1); Decade (10); Score (20); Century (100); Daytona (500); and Millennia (1,000)?

And it's ok if you choose to be dishonest and avoid answering the question. Many in the church are dishonest, so you have a LOT of company.
Bobby Jo

Dude read Matthew 24 or Mark 13 ,NO!!!! ,again,we don't know the day but we should know the season,like I said earlier learn the parable of the fig tree.

Heck I'll give it to ya,by the way what I'm I being dishonest about???????

Matthew 24:32 "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:"

This lets us know that the generation of the end times begin in the year 1948. For both the good and the bad fig tree returned to Judaea and were placed there, as Jeremiah wrote in Jeremiah 24. That is the subject of Matthew 24. Jesus told us in Mark 13:28, 29, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near," [28] "So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh even at the doors." [29]

Do you know why Eve used fig leaves to cover her private parts, or what she gave birth to? That is what the parable is all about. The bad figs are the Kenites, and Matthew 13 discusses this parable in detail. Jesus even explains it to His disciples in verses 36-43. The parable of the fig tree is "the parable of the tares of the field".

Matthew 24:33 "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors."

"It is near, even at the doors", should read, "He is near, even at the doors." When you see the Antichrist stand, and proclaim himself to be God, and you are still in your flesh body, and the sun, moon and stars are still in the sky, know that the coming of the True Christ is very near.

Matthew 24:34 "Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

"This generation" is the parable of the fig tree, that was alive at the planting of the fig tree in 1948. It is the generation that we are living in today.

 

[n2thelight]

Bottom line anyone born in 1948 that's still alive will be here to see the coming of Christ!!!!

 

[n2thelight]

Let me put it 2 ya another way ,if your wife gets pregnant you know for a fact that the child will be born within 9 months, you don't know the day but you should know the season!!!!

If not, you are ignorant to the Word!!!!

 

[n2thelight]

Labor pains ,do you get that ?

Matthew 24:8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows."

This word "sorrows" in the Greek is "Ydin", and means birth pangs. The word is used only here and in Mark 8, and marks the beginning of the travail of childbirth. The number in Strong's Dictionary is 5604, and this is important, because it reflects the intervals between the events of the signs of the end times.

This translation loses the message that Christ is telling us; for He is saying that when we see this happening, it is the start of the birth of a new age. In other words, it marks the approach of the birth of the second advent, or coming. The events that mark the end will be growing closer and closer together, and when it reaches a point, the birth will begin.

Do you want to know how close you are to the end? Then look at the events that are going on around you. Listen to the labor pains of this generation. When you learn it sign of the end times, then the news of any media will come alive, for the political beast is already here in the form of the United Nations, and that beast just celebrated its first fifty years.

When a womans contractions become closer and closer together ,you should know the child is ready to be born,and so it is with the birth of the new age ,ie ,Christ return...When you ready to come for me ,come correct...