False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[Douggg]

This cannot be correct. The great tribulation is OVER at the 6th. Then there is 30 minutes before wrath begins.

Where are you getting 30 minutes ? Are you talking about the seventh seal being opened in Revelation 8:1?

The events when the seventh seal is opened are trumpet judgements that that place during the great tribulation.

Wrath is one year. Those 45 days have nothing to do with the events during the wrath of God.
The vials are the wrath of God.

Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Revelation 16:
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

The 7th vial, the great earthquake and hail, is the last vial of God's wrath, right after the kings of the earth have gathered their armies at Armageddon.

Also where are you getting "wrath" is one year ?

 

[rebuilder 454]

This cannot be correct. The great tribulation is OVER at the 6th. Then there is 30 minutes before wrath begins. Wrath is one year. Those 45 days have nothing to do with the events during the wrath of God.

Where do you find 45 days of wrath?
What your model seems to be is Jesus returns before ( whatever it is you want to call the 7 yr gt) ...is over.
You seem to have Jesus returning during the "wrath".

 

[rebuilder 454]

Here is how we know the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal and is not when Jesus returns on white horses.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

So the tribulation is over and then Jesus returns for the harvest. It is BEFORE the wrath of God. Wrath is the 7 trumpets. A different view with different information is the 7 vials. Both the trumpets and vials happen in the same timeframe and that timeframe is the wrath of God.

Yes

We know that the tribulation is over...........immediately AFTER the tribulation there will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. The same signs are seen at the 6th seal and wrath has not begun.

Revelation 6

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


To truly understand this......................The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The wrath of God begins at the 7th seal which is the trumpets.

The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet. Jesus has returned and Armageddon is OVER. Jesus sets up His kingdom on the earth.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14, these events take place in the 1st 6 seals. So Revelation 13 and 14 are just another view of the events of the 6 seal.

Here is the great tribulation which is the 5th seal.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Here is the coming of Jesus which is the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

When you are reading Revelation 7, we see 144,000 are sealed. They became Christians. People think these 144,000 are sealed because of what is written about.................. only harming those without the seal of God. Actually these 144,000 are not on earth during the wrath of God. They are harvested as first fruits BEFORE the harvest of the great multitude That we see in Revelation 7.

To understand Revelation, we need to understand that we are back in the seals when we are reading Revelation 14. And when Jesus comes for the harvest in Rev 14, the unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God...............which is the trumpets or another view is the vials..

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
He only comes in power and great Glory after the wrath ( actually post 7 yr tribulation ...and yes The last half of the 7 yr GT is wrath)
SO " AFTER THE TRIB" Jesus talked about is after what you would call the wrath.
He only returns in power in rev 19.
Postrib
Post wrath
Post 7 yr GT
Or whatever you want it named.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus will return with the armies of heaven at the end of the trumpets for Armageddon and to set up His kingdom.


Jesus returns in Matthew 24 which occurs at the 6th seal, which seen in Rev 14

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

He remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper.

Here is the multitude that goes to heaven.

Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

After the marriage supper Jesus returns to the earth with the armies of heaven.


The great tribulation is not 7 years long. The 70th week of Daniel is 7 years long. The Great Tribulation does not occur until the middle of the week.


Jesus returns in Matthew 24 for the gathering from heaven and earth. Also seen in Mark 13

Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

All remain in heaven during the 1 year wrath of God.

Jesus returns with the armies of heaven at the end of wrath which is the end of the trumpets or vials.


Revelation 14 is the gathering to heaven..........FOR THE MARRIAGE SUPPER.............seen in Rev 19

Revelation 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for

Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues,
before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

If you keep reading we get context and chronology.
".....These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."""

So we see the GREAT TRIBULATION is before the 144k are sealed...which is early on in the 7 yr GT.

Point 2,is that they had dirty robes.
They are in fact the foolish virgins left behind after the rapture combined with the huge harvest of people the foolish are now witnessing to.
They all lost their heads...were martyred...early on in the gt( 7 yr period)

 

[The Light]

Where do you find 45 days of wrath?

I didn't. Douggg said that there are 45 days for the armies of the earth to stage for Armageddon. I told him this is not correct.

What your model seems to be is Jesus returns before ( whatever it is you want to call the 7 yr gt) ...is over.
You seem to have Jesus returning during the "wrath".

Jesus returns before the tribulation..............pretribulation rapture.

The Church is gone to heaven. And part of Israel has its blindness removed. This is the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth.

Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the gathering from heaven and earth. This is the second coming when all eyes see the coming of the Lord. Jesus remains in the clouds.

Mark 13
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

This is the harvest that you see in Revelation 14. The Chruch is gathered from heaven and the 12 tribes that have their blindness removed.........those that are not killed in the great tribulation, will be gathered from the earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper which is why you see a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7 which is right after the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. Also we see some of these came out of the great tribulation.

All remain in heaven for the marriage supper which occurs during the 1 year wrath of God. Jesus returns at the end of wrath for Armageddon and to set up His kingsdom.

 

[The Light]

Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues,
before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

If you keep reading we get context and chronology.
".....These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them."""

So we see the GREAT TRIBULATION is before the 144k are sealed...which is early on in the 7 yr GT.

No sir. The 144,000 are sealed BEFORE the great tribulation. You need simple logic to understand this. You need to take the information from Revelation 14 to understand the order of events.

This is the great tribulation. This occurs at the 5th seal. Again, when you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the 1st 6 seals.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

So what do we see BEFORE the great tribulation?

We see the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth BEFORE the great tribulation.

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

If the 144,000 are redeemed before the great tribulation, they have to be sealed BEFORE the great tribulation which is the 5th seal.

That should tell you that the 144,000 have to be sealed BEFORE the 5th seal. So the following verses happen before the 5th seal.

Revelation 7
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

This is nothing but simple logic. Everyone thinks that the 144,000 are sealed to go through the wrath of God. This is not the case. They are removed from the earth before the 5th seal which is the great tribulation. Which means they are off the earth during the wrath of God.

Only the nation of Israel, the woman, that has fled to a place of protection, and unbelievers will be on earth during the wrath of God.

 

[The Light]

Point 2,is that they had dirty robes.
They are in fact the foolish virgins left behind after the rapture combined with the huge harvest of people the foolish are now witnessing to.
They all lost their heads...were martyred...early on in the gt( 7 yr period)

No. This is not the foolish virgins that come out of great tribulation.

This is talking about the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth that have had their blindness removed when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.

You have to understand that those 144,000 that are sealed, are not sealed to go through the wrath of God. They are sealed because they are believers........and the first fruits of the second harvest. The Gentile Church is the 1st harvest. This is why there is a grain harvest and a fruit harvest.

Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

In Revelation 15 we see those that came out of great tribulation are singing the song of Moses. So the harvest of Revelation 14 is when Jesus comes at the 6th seal, and those that came out of great tribulation are the seed of the woman, the twelve tribes across the earth.


Revelation 15

2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

 

[The Light]

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
He only comes in power and great Glory after the wrath ( actually post 7 yr tribulation ...and yes The last half of the 7 yr GT is wrath)

This is not correct.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. He comes in power and glory but remains in the clouds for the gathering from heaven and earth (The harvest of Revelation 14) The tribulation is over when Jesus comes at the 6th seal as the days of the great tribulation are cut short or no flesh would be saved. That means there would be no flesh alive that would be raptured to salvation. Those that received salvation would have to be raised from the dead.

SO " AFTER THE TRIB" Jesus talked about is after what you would call the wrath.
He only returns in power in rev 19.
Postrib
Post wrath
Post 7 yr GT
Or whatever you want it named.

The ERROR most Christians make is not understanding that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Jesus returns in power and glory and sends his angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

When people talk post trib, they think they are talking about when Jesus comes with the armies of heaven for Armageddon. However, the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. When the 7th seal is opened wrath can begin when the trumpets sound. Wrath is over at the 7th trumpet and Jesus has already returned and He sets up His kingdom at the 7th trumpet.

 

[The Light]

Where are you getting 30 minutes ? Are you talking about the seventh seal being opened in Revelation 8:1?

Yes.

The events when the seventh seal is opened are trumpet judgements that that place during the great tribulation.

No Sir. The great tribulation is over before the trumpets of wrath begin. Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the second harvest.

View attachment 45482

You are calling great tribulation and the wrath of God the same thing. The wrath of God is the 7th seal. It begins after the 6th seal. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal.

Revelation 16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.


Revelation 16:
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

The 7th vial, the great earthquake and hail, is the last vial of God's wrath, right after the kings of the earth have gathered their armies at Armageddon.




View attachment 45481

The great tribulation has nothing to do with the trumpets and vials of wrath. The tribulation is over at the coming of Jesus for the harvest at the 6th seal. Then the 7th seal is opened and wrath begins.

 

[Douggg]

The great tribulation has nothing to do with the trumpets and vials of wrath.

Then what takes place during the great tribulation that makes it the great tribulation ?

 

[rebuilder 454]

No sir. The 144,000 are sealed BEFORE the great tribulation. You need simple logic to understand this. You need to take the information from Revelation 14 to understand the order of events.

This is the great tribulation. This occurs at the 5th seal. Again, when you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the 1st 6 seals.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

So what do we see BEFORE the great tribulation?

We see the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth BEFORE the great tribulation.

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

If the 144,000 are redeemed before the great tribulation, they have to be sealed BEFORE the great tribulation which is the 5th seal.

That should tell you that the 144,000 have to be sealed BEFORE the 5th seal. So the following verses happen before the 5th seal.

Revelation 7
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

This is nothing but simple logic. Everyone thinks that the 144,000 are sealed to go through the wrath of God. This is not the case. They are removed from the earth before the 5th seal which is the great tribulation. Which means they are off the earth during the wrath of God.

Only the nation of Israel, the woman, that has fled to a place of protection, and unbelievers will be on earth during the wrath of God.

The great multitude CAME OUT OF the GT.

This is not correct.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal. He comes in power and glory but remains in the clouds for the gathering from heaven and earth (The harvest of Revelation 14) The tribulation is over when Jesus comes at the 6th seal as the days of the great tribulation are cut short or no flesh would be saved. That means there would be no flesh alive that would be raptured to salvation. Those that received salvation would have to be raised from the dead.


The ERROR most Christians make is not understanding that the great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. Jesus returns in power and glory and sends his angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth.

When people talk post trib, they think they are talking about when Jesus comes with the armies of heaven for Armageddon. However, the tribulation is over at the 6th seal. When the 7th seal is opened wrath can begin when the trumpets sound. Wrath is over at the 7th trumpet and Jesus has already returned and He sets up His kingdom at the 7th trumpet.

Pretty much so except you are putting the wrath / GT dynamic in terms of days and maybe you are basing all that on "7th trump" or something?
The return on white horses ends the "wrath"/7 yr gt, or whatever you call it nowadays.
That is at the arrival of Jesus and his army on white horses. There is no prewrath return on white horses

 

[The Light]

Also where are you getting "wrath" is one year ?

This verse in Isaiah 34 is the 6th seal in Revelation.

Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

This tells us that the wrath of God which occurs at the 6th seal is the year of recompenses. Additionally we know that a day can be a year in the scripture as we see in Ezekiel 4

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

We can also see that the bridegroom does not go to war until 1 year after the marriage, and the great multitude is in heaven for the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Deuteronomy 24
5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.

We can see the great multitude in heaven in Rev 7 which occurs right after the coming of Jesus for the harvest at the 6th seal in Rev 6. We can also see the marriage supper of the Lamb in Revelation 19. So we can determine that the Lord..........the bridegroom will not go to war and lead the armies of heaven until after one year.

 

[The Light]

Then what takes place during the great tribulation that makes it the great tribulation ?

This is what happens during the Great Tribulation. If the days were not cut short, there would be no flesh alive to be raptured. All those raptured to salvation would have to rise from the dead.

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

This is the great tribulation at the 5th seal.
Revelation 5
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Here is the Great Tribulation in Revelation 14. You need to understand when you are reading Revelation 14 you are back in the 1st 6 seals.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Here is the Great Tribulation in Revelation 12
Revelation 12
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

So in conclusion, the Great Tribulation is the time when Satan martyrs the saints. This has nothing to do with the wrath of God. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal and then the wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened. Gods' wrath is when God pours his wrath out on an evil world. Believers are not appointed to wrath.

 

[Douggg]

No Sir. The great tribulation is over before the trumpets of wrath begin. Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the second harvest.

The 7 trumpets are not called trumpets of wrath in the text.

You are calling great tribulation and the wrath of God the same thing. The wrath of God is the 7th seal. It begins after the 6th seal. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal.

No, I am showing that both the 7 trumpet actions and the 7 vials of God's wrath take place during the great tribulation. The opening of the 7th seal in Revelation 8:1 begins the 7 trumpet actions of the great tribulation.

 

[The Light]

The great multitude CAME OUT OF the GT.

Part of the great multitude rise from the dead. Part of the great multitude are raptured alive and come out of great tribulation. These parts occur at the 6th seal. However, the Gentile Church will come from heaven with the Lord at the 6th seal. They will also be part of the great multitude.

Pretty much so except you are putting the wrath / GT dynamic in terms of days and maybe you are basing all that on "7th trump" or something?
The return on white horses ends the "wrath"/7 yr gt, or whatever you call it nowadays.
That is at the arrival of Jesus and his army on white horses. There is no prewrath return on white horses

You must understand that tribulation and wrath are not the same thing, no matter how many pretrib preachers state it. They don't understand that there is a rapture before the tribulation as Noah is in the ark 6 days before the flood. This is the grain harvest, barley and wheat.
Then the Lord returns at the 6th seal for the fall fruit harvest. This is the second harvest.

Of course there is no pre wrath return of Jesus on white horses. That return, the second advent, occurs at the end of wrath. When Jesus comes at the 6th seal, it is the end of the tribulation and Jesus remains in the clouds. However, all eyes see the coming of the Lord at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 and the some coming at the harvest in Revelation 14.

 

[Douggg]

So in conclusion, the Great Tribulation is the time when Satan martyrs the saints. This has nothing to do with the wrath of God. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal and then the wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened. Gods' wrath is when God pours his wrath out on an evil world. Believers are not appointed to wrath.

The great tribulation affects everyone alive on earth at that time. Not just the saints.

Satan involved with the martyring of the saints, does not impact the wicked of the world that they be killed.

The deaths of the wicked during the great tribulation will be due to war, pestilences, famine, disease, and the effects of the 7 trumpet actions and the 7 vials of God's wrath.

The verses in 1Thessalonians5:9-11 about believers not appointed to God's wrath, but salvation, indicates that the rapture/resurrection event will take place before the day of the Lord begins.

 

[The Light]

The 7 trumpets are not called trumpets of wrath in the text.

Revelation 6
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

This is the end of the 6th seal and the 7th seal is about to be opened. The 7th seal contains the wrath of God.

No, I am showing that both the 7 trumpet actions and the 7 vial of God's wrath take place during the great tribulation.

No. The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. It is marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

The opening of the 7th seal in Revelation 8:1 begins the 7 trumpet actions of the great tribulation.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

The great tribulation is when the dragon martyrs the saints. The wrath of God is when God pour His wrath on an evil world.

 

[The Light]

The great tribulation affects everyone alive on earth at that time. Not just the saints.

No. The beginning of sorrows, false christs, wars, famine, pestilences and earth quakes affect everyone. The great tribulation only affects believers.

Satan involved with the martyring of the saints, does not impact the wicked of the world that they be killed.

Exactly. You just proved my point.

The deaths of the wicked during the great tribulation will be due to war, pestilences, famine, disease, and the effects of the 7 trumpet actions and the 7 vials of God's wrath.

You got the 1st part correct. But the trumpets and vials are for the wicked. Believers will be in heaven for the marriage supper during the wrath of God. Only the woman, those of the nation of Israel, that fled to a place of protection and unbelievers will be on earth during the 1 Year wrath of God.

The verses in 1Thessalonians5:9-11 about believers not appointed to God's wrath, but salvation, indicates that the rapture/resurrection event will take place before the day of the Lord begins.

There are two raptures as the fig tree has two harvests.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

Israel was supposed to be the first harvest and the fathers of the Israel were to be the first fruits of the harvest. However, they served other gods and would become the second harvest.

Why do you think there are 144,000 from the twelve tribes that become the first fruits? Because the first harvest will have happened and then there needs to be first fruits of the second harvest.

 

[Douggg]

This is the end of the 6th seal and the 7th seal is about to be opened. The 7th seal contains the wrath of God.

The 6th seal and 7th seal are not in chronological order with each other. The 7th seal in Revelation 8, when opened, reveals what the 7 trumpet actions will be. The 7 trumpet actions in Revelation 8 are not called the wrath of God.

 

[Douggg]

You got the 1st part correct. But the trumpets and vials are for the wicked. Believers will be in heaven for the marriage supper during the wrath of God. Only the woman, those of the nation of Israel, that fled to a place of protection and unbelievers will be on earth during the 1 Year wrath of God.

What verses are you basing your statement of "1 year" wrath of God ?