False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus will return with the armies of heaven at the end of the trumpets for Armageddon and to set up His kingdom.


Jesus returns in Matthew 24 which occurs at the 6th seal, which seen in Rev 14

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

He remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper.

Here is the multitude that goes to heaven.

Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

After the marriage supper Jesus returns to the earth with the armies of heaven.


The great tribulation is not 7 years long. The 70th week of Daniel is 7 years long. The Great Tribulation does not occur until the middle of the week.


Jesus returns in Matthew 24 for the gathering from heaven and earth. Also seen in Mark 13

Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

All remain in heaven during the 1 year wrath of God.

Jesus returns with the armies of heaven at the end of wrath which is the end of the trumpets or vials.


Revelation 14 is the gathering to heaven..........FOR THE MARRIAGE SUPPER.............seen in Rev 19

Revelation 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for

In the parable of the wedding feast the Jews do not attend.
The gentile church is the bride.( plus a small section of messianic Jews.)
The Jews are the wife gone awhoring.( The wife nonetheless)
In the virgin parable the bride is taken from earth directly to the wedding chamber.
( not saying that is the wedding feast.)

 

[rebuilder 454]

The great tribulation will not be completely over when the sixth seal event takes place. I will explain.

The sixth seal event is the sign of the Son of man in heaven, Jesus sickle in hand. It will terrify the wicked men of the earth.

In reaction, in Revelation 16:13-14, the beast-king, the false prophet and Satan, convince the kings of the earth to make war on Jesus in hopes of keeping Jesus from executing judgment on them.

They prepare for 45 days.

Then, right before Jesus descends to earth at the end of those 45 days, there will be one last vial (the seventh vial) of God's wrath of the great tribulation poured out in Revelation 16:17-21, the great earthquake, and huge hail.


Here is an excerpt from my main timeline chart of the 7 years.

It shows the 1290 days, the 1335 days great tribulation, the sign of the Son of man, the 7th vial of God's wrath. The three asterisks is the kings of the earth armies gathering at Armageddon.



View attachment 45477



Here is the full chart of the 7 years. Just follow the red line from upper left corner to lower right corner.


View attachment 45478

I agree in part because Jesus called the entire trib " great tribulation."
Plus the innumerable number came out of the great trib.
They had dirty robes.
They are the foolish virgins left behind.
So the innumerable number are in heaven right away.
It all has to fit, otherwise things are just "placed" mentally.

 

[The Light]

What verses are you basing your statement of "1 year" wrath of God ?

Douggg, This is the third time I have answered this question. Isaiah 34, and Deuteronomy 24.

This verse in Isaiah 34 is the 6th seal in Revelation.

Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

This tells us that the wrath of God which occurs at the 6th seal is the year of recompenses. Additionally we know that a day can be a year in the scripture as we see in Ezekiel 4

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

We can also see that the bridegroom does not go to war until 1 year after the marriage, and the great multitude is in heaven for the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Deuteronomy 24
5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.

We can see the great multitude in heaven in Rev 7 which occurs right after the coming of Jesus for the harvest at the 6th seal in Rev 6. We can also see the marriage supper of the Lamb in Revelation 19. So we can determine that the Lord..........the bridegroom will not go to war and lead the armies of heaven until after one year.

 

[rebuilder 454]

No sir. The 144,000 are sealed BEFORE the great tribulation. You need simple logic to understand this. You need to take the information from Revelation 14 to understand the order of events.

This is the great tribulation. This occurs at the 5th seal. Again, when you are reading Revelation 13 and 14 you are back in the 1st 6 seals.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

So what do we see BEFORE the great tribulation?

We see the 144,000 are redeemed from the earth BEFORE the great tribulation.

Revelation 14
1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:

3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

If the 144,000 are redeemed before the great tribulation, they have to be sealed BEFORE the great tribulation which is the 5th seal.

That should tell you that the 144,000 have to be sealed BEFORE the 5th seal. So the following verses happen before the 5th seal.

Revelation 7
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

This is nothing but simple logic. Everyone thinks that the 144,000 are sealed to go through the wrath of God. This is not the case. They are removed from the earth before the 5th seal which is the great tribulation. Which means they are off the earth during the wrath of God.

Only the nation of Israel, the woman, that has fled to a place of protection, and unbelievers will be on earth during the wrath of God.

The only place Jesus descends in power and great Glory is in Revelation 19.
which when he returns ,he ends the 7-year Great Tribulation.
The ones that are the innumerable number came out of the Great Tribulation Jesus said after the Great Tribulation he would return in power.
The whole 7 years is the Great Tribulation. We know this because there's two places that it's called the Great Tribulation. It's not called the tribulation and the Wrath. But we see Jesus returning after not during the Wrath,or before it, but after the Wrath .
the Wrath is the last part of the Great Tribulation but the whole thing is the Great Tribulation. The tribulation / wrath whatever you want to call it ends with Jesus coming in his armies.

his armies end the Great Tribulation or the Wrath or whatever you want to call it.
it is ended at that time he doesn't come with his armies and take a year, or whatever time frame you want to call it, to end the 7 yr Great Tribulation or the Wrath or whatever you want to call it .
no

 

[Douggg]

Douggg, This is the third time I have answered this question. Isaiah 34, and Deuteronomy 24.

This verse in Isaiah 34 is the 6th seal in Revelation.

Isaiah 34
4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

This tells us that the wrath of God which occurs at the 6th seal is the year of recompenses. Additionally we know that a day can be a year in the scripture as we see in Ezekiel 4

Isaiah 34
8 For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.

We can also see that the bridegroom does not go to war until 1 year after the marriage, and the great multitude is in heaven for the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Deuteronomy 24
5 When a man hath taken a new wife, he shall not go out to war, neither shall he be charged with any business: but he shall be free at home one year, and shall cheer up his wife which he hath taken.

We can see the great multitude in heaven in Rev 7 which occurs right after the coming of Jesus for the harvest at the 6th seal in Rev 6. We can also see the marriage supper of the Lamb in Revelation 19. So we can determine that the Lord..........the bridegroom will not go to war and lead the armies of heaven until after one year.

So you are not quoting "a year" found in the text of Revelation regarding length of God's wrath. Instead, you are creating your own hypothesis.

 

[The Light]

The 6th seal and 7th seal are not in chronological order with each other.

Douggg. Does that make sense to you?

The seals are opened in chronological order in the text. You can't just jump in there with a sledgehammer and beat square pegs into round holes because that is the only way you can understand it.

All the seals are in chronological order. All the trumpets and vials are in chronological orders.

You should be reading from Revelation 1 thru Revelation in 11 in order. The only exception is Revelation 7. Those 144,000 first fruits are not sealed after Revelation 6; they are sealed earlier sometime in the 1st four seals. We can determine that by Revelation 14.

The 7th seal in Revelation 8, when opened, reveals what the 7 trumpet actions will be.

Exactly.

The 7 trumpet actions in Revelation 8 are not called the wrath of God.

You need to understand what you are reading. The coming of Jesus in Revelation 14 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal, is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24

Revelation 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Part of the great multitude rise from the dead. Part of the great multitude are raptured alive and come out of great tribulation. These parts occur at the 6th seal. However, the Gentile Church will come from heaven with the Lord at the 6th seal. They will also be part of the great multitude.


You must understand that tribulation and wrath are not the same thing, no matter how many pretrib preachers state it. They don't understand that there is a rapture before the tribulation as Noah is in the ark 6 days before the flood. This is the grain harvest, barley and wheat.
Then the Lord returns at the 6th seal for the fall fruit harvest. This is the second harvest.

Of course there is no pre wrath return of Jesus on white horses. That return, the second advent, occurs at the end of wrath. When Jesus comes at the 6th seal, it is the end of the tribulation and Jesus remains in the clouds. However, all eyes see the coming of the Lord at the 6th seal, which is the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 and the some coming at the harvest in Revelation 14.

You must understand that with noah and lot which are Jesus examples of the rapture, there is not even the slightest hint of a 2 part trib/wrath.
Plus you are misplacing the innumerable number.
There is nothing there placing them in your timeframe.
They had dirty robes and needed washing

The martyrs are killed by the AC.
He KICKS OFF the great trib.
Believers are slaughtered by the millions.
It is so bad the Jews have to be rescued.
The ENTIRE NATION is ushered away.
Like Jesus said " tribulation such as the world has never seen and never will see again" so that means that all prior Holocaust that we have seen in our lifetime do not compare with what the Antichrist does.
The dirty robe believers are killed right away at the start of the 7 yr GT.
They miss The rapture.

 

[The Light]

The only place Jesus descends in power and great Glory is in Revelation 19.

All eyes see the coming of the Lord at the 6th seal. This is the second coming. He comes in power and glory with His angels for the harvest at the 6th seal. He remains in the clouds and gathers the elect from heaven and earth for the marriage supper which is in heaven. After the marriage supper He returns in Revelation 19 with the armies of heaven and sets up His kingdom. This is the second advent.

which when he returns ,he ends the 7-year Great Tribulation.

There is not 7 year Great Tribulation.

The ones that are the innumerable number came out of the Great Tribulation Jesus said after the Great Tribulation he would return in power.

He does, at the 6th seal.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.

The whole 7 years is the Great Tribulation.

No. The whole 7 years is the 70th week of Daniel.

We know this because there's two places that it's called the Great Tribulation.

Can you find any verses that say that the Great Tribulation is 7 years long? Additionally we know that the days are cut short or no alive flesh would receive salvation by the rapture. All believers would be dead.

It's not called the tribulation and the Wrath.

In the Bible, I'm reading it is.

It says the Jesus returns at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. It says the tribulation is over and wrath is about to begin.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

But we see Jesus returning after not during the Wrath,or before it, but after the Wrath .

See above.

the Wrath is the last part of the Great Tribulation but the whole thing is the Great Tribulation. The tribulation / wrath whatever you want to call it ends with Jesus coming in his armies.

The Great Tribulation is when the dragon martyrs believers. The wrath of God is when God brings punishes an evil world.

his armies end the Great Tribulation or the Wrath or whatever you want to call it.
it is ended at that time he doesn't come with his armies and take a year, or whatever time frame you want to call it, to end the 7 yr Great Tribulation or the Wrath or whatever you want to call it .
no

Go read Isaiah 34 and then go read the 6th seal. The wrath of God lasts one year.

 

[The Light]

You must understand that with noah and lot which are Jesus examples of the rapture,

Noah and Lot are examples of 2 raptures.

The Gentile Church is an example of the days of Noah. Noah is in the ark 6 days before the flood. This means that the Church will be in the ark during the great tribulation. At the end of the great tribulation the flood comes. The flood is the wrath of God.

Tribulation is not wrath. I don't care how many times these TV preachers say it is, it's not.

The twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, is an example of the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. Just as the very day of the rapture at the 6th seal, the wrath of God will come.

Two raptures...........two harvests, grain and fruit.

Jacob had two brides. Leah and the chosen bride Rachel.

there is not even the slightest hint of a 2 part trib/wrath.

The Lord returns at the 6th seal for the harvest seen in Revelation 14 and Matthew 24. Then the wrath of God begins.

Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Plus you are misplacing the innumerable number.
There is nothing there placing them in your timeframe.
They had dirty robes and needed washing

The great multitude is seen in heaven after the harvest at the 6th seal..............Some come out of GREAT TRIBUALTION. We can tell that the tribulation is over by Matthew 24. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

The signs of the sun, moon and stars should tell you that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.

The martyrs are killed by the AC.
He KICKS OFF the great trib.
Believers are slaughtered by the millions.
It is so bad the Jews have to be rescued.
The ENTIRE NATION is ushered away.

Exactly. And this has nothing to do with the wrath of God. This is the tribulation .............WHICH IS CUT SHORT.

Like Jesus said " tribulation such as the world has never seen and never will see again" so that means that all prior Holocaust that we have seen in our lifetime do not compare with what the Antichrist does.

Exactly. This is the tribulation which is over at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened.

The dirty robe believers are killed right away at the start of the 7 yr GT.
They miss The rapture.

There are no dirty robe believers that I am aware. If they were believers, they would have made their robes white by the blood of the Lamb

Additionally, the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. It is the time of Jacobs trouble.

 

[The Light]

So you are not quoting "a year" found in the text of Revelation regarding length of God's wrath. Instead, you are creating your own hypothesis.

LOL. Now that made me laugh.

I used the Word of God to speak for itself.

I showed you in Isaiah 34 that we were at the 6th seal in Revelation. It is Isaiah 34 that is saying that there will be a Year of Recompenses and a day of vengeance.

I believe what is written. I don't need to dream anything up or change the order of anything. What the Word says is what it is.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Noah and Lot are examples of 2 raptures.

The Gentile Church is an example of the days of Noah. Noah is in the ark 6 days before the flood. This means that the Church will be in the ark during the great tribulation. At the end of the great tribulation the flood comes. The flood is the wrath of God.

Tribulation is not wrath. I don't care how many times these TV preachers say it is, it's not.

The twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, is an example of the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. Just as the very day of the rapture at the 6th seal, the wrath of God will come.

Two raptures...........two harvests, grain and fruit.

Jacob had two brides. Leah and the chosen bride Rachel.


The Lord returns at the 6th seal for the harvest seen in Revelation 14 and Matthew 24. Then the wrath of God begins.

Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


The great multitude is seen in heaven after the harvest at the 6th seal..............Some come out of GREAT TRIBUALTION. We can tell that the tribulation is over by Matthew 24. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

The signs of the sun, moon and stars should tell you that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.


Exactly. And this has nothing to do with the wrath of God. This is the tribulation .............WHICH IS CUT SHORT.


Exactly. This is the tribulation which is over at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened.


There are no dirty robe believers that I am aware. If they were believers, they would have made their robes white by the blood of the Lamb

Additionally, the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. It is the time of Jacobs trouble.

"""There are no dirty robe believers that I am aware. If they were believers, they would have made their robes white by the blood of the Lamb"""
The foolish virgins are believers.
1 Corinthians is full of dirty believers.
The 7 letters in rev has many sinful believers.
When we sin, we need cleansing.
Very basic facts.
Unless you are hyper Pauline
They never repent or ask forgiveness
That false doctrine depicts God as winking at sin.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Noah and Lot are examples of 2 raptures.

The Gentile Church is an example of the days of Noah. Noah is in the ark 6 days before the flood. This means that the Church will be in the ark during the great tribulation. At the end of the great tribulation the flood comes. The flood is the wrath of God.

Tribulation is not wrath. I don't care how many times these TV preachers say it is, it's not.

The twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, is an example of the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. Just as the very day of the rapture at the 6th seal, the wrath of God will come.

Two raptures...........two harvests, grain and fruit.

Jacob had two brides. Leah and the chosen bride Rachel.


The Lord returns at the 6th seal for the harvest seen in Revelation 14 and Matthew 24. Then the wrath of God begins.

Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


The great multitude is seen in heaven after the harvest at the 6th seal..............Some come out of GREAT TRIBUALTION. We can tell that the tribulation is over by Matthew 24. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

The signs of the sun, moon and stars should tell you that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.


Exactly. And this has nothing to do with the wrath of God. This is the tribulation .............WHICH IS CUT SHORT.


Exactly. This is the tribulation which is over at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened.


There are no dirty robe believers that I am aware. If they were believers, they would have made their robes white by the blood of the Lamb

Additionally, the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. It is the time of Jacobs trouble.

"""Noah and Lot are examples of 2 raptures"""
Nope
Both before judgement
Both have free commerce
Both have peacetime
Both have normal life as usual

Both are depicted side by side with one taken/one left
Both have 50% left behind.
It is impossible that they are 2 separate events.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Noah and Lot are examples of 2 raptures.

The Gentile Church is an example of the days of Noah. Noah is in the ark 6 days before the flood. This means that the Church will be in the ark during the great tribulation. At the end of the great tribulation the flood comes. The flood is the wrath of God.

Tribulation is not wrath. I don't care how many times these TV preachers say it is, it's not.

The twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, is an example of the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. Just as the very day of the rapture at the 6th seal, the wrath of God will come.

Two raptures...........two harvests, grain and fruit.

Jacob had two brides. Leah and the chosen bride Rachel.


The Lord returns at the 6th seal for the harvest seen in Revelation 14 and Matthew 24. Then the wrath of God begins.

Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


The great multitude is seen in heaven after the harvest at the 6th seal..............Some come out of GREAT TRIBUALTION. We can tell that the tribulation is over by Matthew 24. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

The signs of the sun, moon and stars should tell you that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.


Exactly. And this has nothing to do with the wrath of God. This is the tribulation .............WHICH IS CUT SHORT.


Exactly. This is the tribulation which is over at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened.


There are no dirty robe believers that I am aware. If they were believers, they would have made their robes white by the blood of the Lamb

Additionally, the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. It is the time of Jacobs trouble.

once the wrath begins, if you read it, there is no prior coming on white horses mentioned.
In fact, when the white horses do descend, that battle is quick. There are no falling hailstones and men trying to repent.
No sir. No matter how many TV preachers agree with your theory it does not fit.

 

[rebuilder 454]

LOL. Now that made me laugh.

I used the Word of God to speak for itself.

I showed you in Isaiah 34 that we were at the 6th seal in Revelation. It is Isaiah 34 that is saying that there will be a Year of Recompenses and a day of vengeance.

I believe what is written. I don't need to dream anything up or change the order of anything. What the Word says is what it is.

We can all assume the wrath is one year.
Does not change anything.
Assuming the innumerable number are in heaven at the time you suggest is out if whack.
The verse you quoted for their arrival in heaven only states they are already there, not when they arrived.

 

[Timtofly]

Douggg,
We see the great tribulation in Matthew 24 and then we see in Matthew 24 that the tribulation of those days is over.
I have no idea how you can conclude with these two pieces of scripture that the great tribulation is not over.

What is written is the truth. The great tribulation is OVER at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


Jesus returns in the clouds for the gathering from heaven and earth. He sends His angels to gather the elect.

Revelation 14

All return to heaven for the marriage supper. This is why there is a great multitude in Rev 7 and some of them have come out of the great tribulation.

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 14
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Jesus seen in the clouds in Matthew 24...........6th seal coming. It is the second coming. When Jesus returns for Armageddon at the end of the trumpet that is Jesus return with the armies of heaven in Rev 19. That will result in Jesus setting up His kingdom on the earth. This is the second advent.


The wrath of God is the same as the wrath of the Lamb, unless you don't think Jesus is God?

According to the order you see in Matthew 24, the 42 months of Satan's AoD happens. Then 42 months of the GT happens. Then the Second Coming happens. Then Israel becomes a nation after the Second Coming.

Israel already became a nation. So that means the Second Coming happened before 1948. So has the GT and AoD, all before 1948. Then you have to change Revelation to fit your order of Matthew 24.

The tribulation of those days is the trouble the church faces, which immediately stops when the church is removed, obviously because the church is not on earth any more.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Noah and Lot are examples of 2 raptures.

The Gentile Church is an example of the days of Noah. Noah is in the ark 6 days before the flood. This means that the Church will be in the ark during the great tribulation. At the end of the great tribulation the flood comes. The flood is the wrath of God.

Tribulation is not wrath. I don't care how many times these TV preachers say it is, it's not.

The twelve tribes across the earth, the seed of the woman, is an example of the days of Lot. The very day Lot left Sodom destruction came. Just as the very day of the rapture at the 6th seal, the wrath of God will come.

Two raptures...........two harvests, grain and fruit.

Jacob had two brides. Leah and the chosen bride Rachel.


The Lord returns at the 6th seal for the harvest seen in Revelation 14 and Matthew 24. Then the wrath of God begins.

Rev 14
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.


The great multitude is seen in heaven after the harvest at the 6th seal..............Some come out of GREAT TRIBUALTION. We can tell that the tribulation is over by Matthew 24. IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION.

The signs of the sun, moon and stars should tell you that the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 is the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.


Exactly. And this has nothing to do with the wrath of God. This is the tribulation .............WHICH IS CUT SHORT.


Exactly. This is the tribulation which is over at the 6th seal. Then the wrath of God begins after the 7th seal is opened.


There are no dirty robe believers that I am aware. If they were believers, they would have made their robes white by the blood of the Lamb

Additionally, the 70th week of Daniel is about the people of Daniel. It is the time of Jacobs trouble.

The entire 7 years is great tribulation.
Wrath has within it tribulation
Definitions are useful.
One dimensional mental interpretations and making things fit like "trumpets" , "day of the lord"
,"hour", "tribulation","great tribulation", "wrath", etc can make things look correct, but defy the panoramic picture.
Anything anyone comes up with changing dynamics of the virgins, or the wedding parable, or the return on white horses, is red flags


Can you name a teacher or ministry that agrees with your position?

 

[The Light]

According to the order you see in Matthew 24, the 42 months of Satan's AoD happens. Then 42 months of the GT happens. Then the Second Coming happens. Then Israel becomes a nation after the Second Coming.

Israel already became a nation. So that means the Second Coming happened before 1948. So has the GT and AoD, all before 1948. Then you have to change Revelation to fit your order of Matthew 24.

The tribulation of those days is the trouble the church faces, which immediately stops when the church is removed, obviously because the church is not on earth any more.

No. These comments are based on the order THAT YOU THINK I SEE not on what I see.

Just a note, the tribulation of those days is on the Jews. The Church is already in heaven.

 

[rebuilder 454]

All eyes see the coming of the Lord at the 6th seal. This is the second coming. He comes in power and glory with His angels for the harvest at the 6th seal. He remains in the clouds and gathers the elect from heaven and earth for the marriage supper which is in heaven. After the marriage supper He returns in Revelation 19 with the armies of heaven and sets up His kingdom. This is the second advent.

There is not 7 year Great Tribulation.


He does, at the 6th seal.

The tribulation is over at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars.


No. The whole 7 years is the 70th week of Daniel.


Can you find any verses that say that the Great Tribulation is 7 years long? Additionally we know that the days are cut short or no alive flesh would receive salvation by the rapture. All believers would be dead.


In the Bible, I'm reading it is.

It says the Jesus returns at the 6th seal as marked by the signs of the sun, moon and stars. It says the tribulation is over and wrath is about to begin.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

Revelation 6
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


See above.

The Great Tribulation is when the dragon martyrs believers. The wrath of God is when God brings punishes an evil world.


Go read Isaiah 34 and then go read the 6th seal. The wrath of God lasts one year.

Yep
The last part of the GT is wrath.

 

[Douggg]

Douggg. Does that make sense to you?

The seals are opened in chronological order in the text. You can't just jump in there with a sledgehammer and beat square pegs into round holes because that is the only way you can understand it.

The events that the sixth seal reveal and the events that the seventh seal reveal is not in chronological order.

The issue is not the order the seals are opened to reveal what they contain, but the events themselves.

 

[The Light]

once the wrath begins, if you read it, there is no prior coming on white horses mentioned.

Exactly what I am saying. Jesus does not come on white horses at the 6th seal. The 6th seal is a harvest before the wrath of God seen in Rev 14. Jesus comes and remains in the clouds BEFORE THE WRATH OF GOD.

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

In fact, when the white horses do descend, that battle is quick. There are no falling hailstones and men trying to repent.
No sir.

You are obviously misunderstanding. I have never said Jesus comes on white horses before the wrath of God. He comes in the clouds with his angels to gather the elect from heavan and earth. It is the harvest before the marriage supper.

No matter how many TV preachers agree with your theory it does not fit.

It fits exactly. And I have not seen too many that understand that there are two raptures and definitely no tv preachers.