False Doctrine of the "Secret Rapture".

[Timtofly]

`Tim, in the winepress of God's wrath, the blood will rule 1600 furlongs, 200 miles, the length of Israel. But there will be people still alive on the earth, that Jesus will rule over, who are not part of the great tribulation saints..

When Jesus returns, He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. It will be the heathen nations.

Psalms 2:
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

______________________________________________

Matthew 13:30 does not say "final" harvest, but is a parable about the kingdom of heaven.

The passage text spoken by Jesus does not mention the winepress of God's wrath.

Matthew 25 does not refer to a harvest. Matthew 13:39-44 does. Is that the passage you were referring to? If so, that passage refer to the good seed and the tares. And is broad in scope to the final destination of wicked versus the righteous. And the precious valuable of the kingdom of heaven.

The final harvest is the people that rule and their offspring are ruled over. They wait on the sea of glass until the 7th Trumpet stops sounding. All are changed out of Adam's corruptible flesh. The entire rest of humanity are killed and the river of blood is literal or just symbolic of ALL flesh now dead.

Matthew 25 covers the tribes of Jacob, part of the final harvest. It is a harvest, because the sheep are redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, into God's permanent incorruptible physical body. They wait on the sea of glass. The goats are the majority of Jacob, cast alive into the LOF. But no one is left on the earth in a state of sin and death.

If you compare it to the Flood, then add the benefit of redemption out of Adam's dead flesh at the same time, you will understand the Second Coming. Unlike Noah, who carried sin into a new heaven and earth, the redeemed will not carry sin and death into the Day of the Lord.

Matthew 13:30 is the parable. The explanation is in verses 37-41

"The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend."

This is not the gathering Paul talked about. Paul was talking about the church removed first. The church is glorified in the 5th Seal. But when Jesus comes to Jerusalem in the 6rh Seal, that is when the final harvest on earth starts. People will be judged in Jerusalem. Not that Jesus goes to every village on the entire earth and sows the seed, but Jesus is gathering a following from all other nations, while Satan is also gathering a following. So all the tares are left until the end. But the tares also will be gathered, and that is your equivalency of the winepress at one time, but the wheat is gathered and waiting on the sea of glass. The 144k are linked to the sowing of the seed as well in some fashion.

This is not the church and kingdom of heaven already gathered. This is the final harvest during the Trumpets and Thunders while Jesus and the angels are on the earth.

Why is the throne remote for you? Satan will take over that throne and temple in Jerusalem, not some heavenly place remote from the earth. People are not trodden under foot a path between heaven and earth for 42 months.

You are stuck in the heathen mode as if the Day of the Lord is not a Sabbath holy unto God. A dead person is of no use to the living on the earth. If all were natural born sinners, they would all be literally physically dead. The punishment for breaking a law is still death. The point is, no one will have a desire to break the law, nor be burdened under the bondage of sin. Being heathen is the state prior to the Second Coming. Once redeemed, they don't go back to being heathens, but they are the same people who once were heathen.

The Second Coming is not Armageddon. That is a return from the sea of glass, those waiting for Satan's 42 months of AoD to finish. But if no 42 months, they will return immediately at the end of the winepress, when heaven and earth are made new after the blood flows from the grapes of the winepress in Revelation 14. They will not even remember the former things, when they are established throughout the earth at the start of the Day of the Lord. The judgments are what clears the way in preparation for the coming of the day of the Lord. The final harvest is part of those judgments.

 

[Douggg]

Matthew 25 covers the tribes of Jacob, part of the final harvest. It is a harvest, because the sheep are redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh, into God's permanent incorruptible physical body. They wait on the sea of glass. The goats are the majority of Jacob, cast alive into the LOF. But no one is left on the earth in a state of sin and death.

It does not say final harvest in Matthew 25. Matthew 25 has multiple parables in it about seeking first the Kingdom of God. The parables are about how to live with that priority in life.

You are stuck in the heathen mode as if the Day of the Lord is not a Sabbath holy unto God. A dead person is of no use to the living on the earth. If all were natural born sinners, they would all be literally physically dead. The punishment for breaking a law is still death. The point is, no one will have a desire to break the law, nor be burdened under the bondage of sin. Being heathen is the state prior to the Second Coming. Once redeemed, they don't go back to being heathens, but they are the same people who once were heathen.

Tim, the heathen don't believe in Jesus. So just stop with the accusations.

Christians like me are saved by the shed blood of Christ. Our soul has been redeemed, born again. And are looking for the rapture/resurrection event to redeem our bodies into everlasting eternal life bodies.

You are trying to prove you claim that there will be no more death, no more heathen alive, no more unsaved persons on earth after Jesus returns - which is wrong.

When Jesus returns, he will rule the heathen with a rod of Iron.

 

[Timtofly]

It does not say final harvest in Matthew 25. Matthew 25 has multiple parables in it about seeking first the Kingdom of God. The parables are about how to live with that priority in life.


Tim, the heathen don't believe in Jesus. So just stop with the accusations.

Christians like me are saved by the shed blood of Christ. Our soul has been redeemed, born again. And are looking for the rapture/resurrection event to redeem our bodies into everlasting eternal life bodies.

You are trying to prove you claim that there will be no more death, no more heathen alive, no more unsaved persons on earth after Jesus returns - which is wrong.

When Jesus returns, he will rule the heathen with a rod of Iron.

I never said you were a heathen. I said you are stuck in the mode that the heathen live on earth during the Day of the Lord. That is like saying sinners live in heaven.

He will rule over the heathen that are redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh. The church will live and reign from Paradise, in heaven, not on earth. These heathen not part of the church will rule over their offspring. But they will be righteous from birth, not heathen from birth.

From conception, they will have God's Word written in their hearts, instead of a sin nature. But in relation to the glorified church, they will still not be the church. They will be far better off than the church still in Adam's dead flesh like we are today. The church is not glorified after the Day of the Lord. The church is glorified in the 5th Seal, in conjunction with the 6th Seal, Second Coming.

Matthew 25 is the remnant of Israel living on the earth for the Millennial Kingdom. You make it sound like redemption is not about a harvest at all. Why does the word harvest have to be in the chapter? Let us see:

If the ten virgins are not about a harvest, they cannot be about the church either. The church has always been viewed as a harvest of souls out of a sin nature. The ten virgins would only cover Israel, not the church. But we know that half of Israel will not be redeemed only a third, remnant. Now there is a 50/50 chance that at the Second Coming an offspring of Israel will be of the Second Birth. Either an Israelite will be saved or will be lost, that is the 50% point. All saved Israelites will be taken with the church. The rest of Israel will be divided by who is a sheep or a goat.

Once again we see that Israel was given an opportunity to accept the second birth. What one did with that Second birth will be rewarded. You are still missing the point, that these people are dealt with after the Second Coming had already happened. Those part of the kingdom of heaven will leave with the church, but Jesus is dealing with the rest after the Second Coming. And it is based on works, not faith in the Gospel.

The Trumpets symbolize the call sent out to gather all of Israel from the earth and bring them to Jerusalem, not to heaven. Gathering them is a harvest term. And it is the angels who gather them, not public transportation. Israel is then divided between who is a sheep, redeemed, and who is a goat, tossed into the LOF. That is done on earth while they are still physically alive. The sheep are changed out of corruptible flesh into incorruptible physical bodies. That is called redemption and the change is likened to a harvest by Paul. A seed is planted and a different body comes out of the ground from the dead seed. Any time one is changed from old flesh to new flesh that is symbolic of a harvest. The difference between being a sheep and a goat. The sheep were all goats, and not sheep until changed. They did not belong to Jesus, they belonged to sin and death. When Jesus changed them, they became sheep, and that is a harvest out of being a goat. The word harvest does not have to be in the text. The result of redemption is the point of a harvest.

Would you say the church has been gathering a harvest for 1994 years? Is that a harvest realized now, or not until the Second Coming? Does the church enjoy heaven now or wait in death as if they are not redeemed yet, but have to wait for redemption after the Day of the Lord as some teach? Do you even see the word harvest as being a reality since the Cross? If you rule out a harvest at the Second Coming, do you put it off for another 1,000 years? What is the term harvest even for then?

The parables in Matthew 25 are in conjunction with the Second Coming of chapter 24. They are not general parables of how one lives prior to the Second Coming per se. Either one is prepared with the Second Birth or not. That is the problem, that the church has taught a works salvation using this chapter as a template for the Christian walk. This is about the state Jesus finds Jacob in at the Second Coming, not the church. Why would Jesus leave the church on the earth, or worse, toss the majority of the church into the LOF? Being the church is not a name tag one wears thinking they may not even be redeemed. If you have the Second Birth, you should know that, not guess you have the Second Birth.

 

[Douggg]

I never said you were a heathen. I said you are stuck in the mode that the heathen live on earth during the Day of the Lord. That is like saying sinners live in heaven.

Don't tie me to being a heathen in any manner.

He will rule over the heathen that are redeemed out of Adam's dead corruptible flesh

The heathen are unsaved people. Jesus when He returns will rule over the heathen with a rod of iron.

 

[Timtofly]

The heathen are unsaved people. Jesus when He returns will rule over the heathen with a rod of iron.

As redeemed humans.

 

[Douggg]

As redeemed humans.

Tim, the heathen are not redeemed humans.

 

[Timtofly]

Tim, the heathen are not redeemed humans.

That is the whole purpose of the Second Coming, to redeem a remnant of the heathen.

In Christ all shall be made alive. That is the point of 1 Corinthians 15.

 

[rebuilder 454]

OK Douggg, Forget these 45 days.

The coming of Jesus in Matthew 24:30 is immediately after the tribulation.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

The 6th seal is IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION. We know this because it is marked by the sun, moon and stars

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

So at the 6th seal, the tribulation is OVER. Then the 1-Year wrath of God begins.

The wrath begins after Jesus comes for the harvest at the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

If I remember correctly we do agree on several things. I think we differ on the Matthew 24 ,( the after the tribulation coming in great power and Glory).
I think you're trying to say that that's pre wrath or something like that,?
However I don't think that's true, I think that Matthew 24 coming in great power and Glory is on the White Horses of Revelation 19.
I do see two or three Raptures.
One Pre-trib which is first Thessalonians 4 and Matthew 24 "Before the Flood coming" also the the "pre Sodom Deliverance" would be the pre-trib rapture.
And then the mid trib, which you would say prewrath, is the 144,000 found in heaven ( first fruits rapture/ martyrdom), and then later on in verse 14 is the main Harvest of Jews (obvious rapture). And then at the end of the chapter 14 we see the second coming on the white horses where the Antichrist is destroyed. And so I do see two or three Rapturs there.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Negative. Jesus goes to heaven for the marriage supper. Why do you think there is a great multitude in heaven in Rev 7 after the 6th seal. All are going to the marriage supper which we see in Revelation 19


The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal.....................immediately after the tribulation.........................


No sir. When Jesus returns in Matthew 24, the Great Tribulation over. There is a rapture event and then a great multitude is in heaven.

THEN the wrath of God begins.

The great tribulation is when the dragon goes after the woman but she has fled to a place of protection. He then goes after her seed which is the 12 tribes across the earth. So the great tribulation is when the dragon goes after the Jews. The Church is already in heaven.

The wrath of God is not the great tribulation. The wrath of God is when God punishes the world for their wickedness.



The tribulation of those days is the great tribulation.

No. The great tribulation is over at the 6th seal. When the great tribulation is over, the world will be saying peace and safety when they are suddenly cast into the wrath of God.



Sure it does. When the sixth seal is opened............................. 12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

You should be able to draw a conclusion based on the evidence that the great tribulation is over when the sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Are you saying Jesus is on earth during what you call the wrath period?

 

[rebuilder 454]

Tim, the sixth seal event will result in Armageddon, i.e. the gathering of the kings of the earth gathering their armies to make war on Jesus. The sixth seal event is the Sign of the Son of Man in heaven, Matthew 24:30a. The kings of the earth will be terrified.

And for 45 days will gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus.

Psalms 2 describes their preparing. I have matched the text of Revelation 6:16 with Psalms 2, by color coding and underlining.


In the sixth seal

Revelation 6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Psalms 2:
1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying,

3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

4 He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision.

5 Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure.

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.


In verse 4 above, the kings of the earth will be in a frantic mode in their vain effort as they prepare to make war on Jesus for 45 days.

In verse 5, on the 45th day, Jesus descends to earth, on the day of the winepress of God's wrath, and destroys their armies.

In verse 6, that day, Jesus begins his 1000 year reign from Jerusalem. In verse 7, as God declares it, begotten Jesus as King.



The 45 day are on this chart. And on the chart befow, the day of the winepress of God's wrath.




View attachment 45127





View attachment 45128

Where in that chart is the rapture "before the flood/ Sodom destroyed?"

 

[rebuilder 454]

Don't you see the Lord on the cloud and sending His angels to gather the righteous. So, it is a harvest. Here is who is harvested from the earth. They are singing the song of Moses so we know that it is the twelve tribes across the earth.

Revelation 15
2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.


Here is Revelation 14 verse 20

19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

What you are not understanding is that it is the winepress of wrath that does not happen exactly then. It happens when Jesus returns with the armies of heaven

Rev 19
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

So the event of the winepress happens at the 6th TRUMPET and the 6th VIAL which happen in the same timeframe.

Not sure, but appears we agree on this

 

[Douggg]

Where in that chart is the rapture "before the flood/ Sodom destroyed?"

I did not show the rapture/resurrection on that chart. But here it is on this chart. The window is between right now and the day that the Antichrist goes into the temple, sits, claims to have achieved God-hood, i.e the ToD act.

The ToD will shortly be followed by the AoD. Then the great tribulation. Then Jesus's return. Then the millennium. Then the Great White Throne Judgement. Then eternity.

 

[The Light]

If I remember correctly we do agree on several things. I think we differ on the Matthew 24 ,( the after the tribulation coming in great power and Glory).
I think you're trying to say that that's pre wrath or something like that,?
However I don't think that's true, I think that Matthew 24 coming in great power and Glory is on the White Horses of Revelation 19.
I do see two or three Raptures.

Here is how we know the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal and is not when Jesus returns on white horses.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

So the tribulation is over and then Jesus returns for the harvest. It is BEFORE the wrath of God. Wrath is the 7 trumpets. A different view with different information is the 7 vials. Both the trumpets and vials happen in the same timeframe and that timeframe is the wrath of God.

One Pre-trib which is first Thessalonians 4 and Matthew 24 "Before the Flood coming" also the the "pre Sodom Deliverance" would be the pre-trib rapture.

Yes

And then the mid trib, which you would say prewrath,

We know that the tribulation is over...........immediately AFTER the tribulation there will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. The same signs are seen at the 6th seal and wrath has not begun.

Revelation 6

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

is the 144,000 found in heaven ( first fruits rapture/ martyrdom), and then later on in verse 14 is the main Harvest of Jews (obvious rapture). And then at the end of the chapter 14 we see the second coming on the white horses where the Antichrist is destroyed. And so I do see two or three Rapturs there.

To truly understand this......................The tribulation is over at the 6th seal. The wrath of God begins at the 7th seal which is the trumpets.

The wrath of God is over at the 7th trumpet. Jesus has returned and Armageddon is OVER. Jesus sets up His kingdom on the earth.

Revelation 11
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

When you are reading Revelation 13 and 14, these events take place in the 1st 6 seals. So Revelation 13 and 14 are just another view of the events of the 6 seal.

Here is the great tribulation which is the 5th seal.

Revelation 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Here is the coming of Jesus which is the 6th seal.

Revelation 6
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.

When you are reading Revelation 7, we see 144,000 are sealed. They became Christians. People think these 144,000 are sealed because of what is written about.................. only harming those without the seal of God. Actually these 144,000 are not on earth during the wrath of God. They are harvested as first fruits BEFORE the harvest of the great multitude That we see in Revelation 7.

To understand Revelation, we need to understand that we are back in the seals when we are reading Revelation 14. And when Jesus comes for the harvest in Rev 14, the unrighteous are cast into the wrath of God...............which is the trumpets or another view is the vials..

 

[The Light]

Are you saying Jesus is on earth during what you call the wrath period?

Jesus returns to the earth at the 6th trumpet and at the 6th vial, I would think. These are the same timeframe which is the wrath of God. We do know for sure that Jesus has returned at the 7th trumpet and 7th vial............again these are the same timeframe...........the end of the wrath of God.

 

[Douggg]

Here is how we know the coming of Jesus in Matthew 24 occurs at the 6th seal and is not when Jesus returns on white horses.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

So the tribulation is over and then Jesus returns for the harvest. It is BEFORE the wrath of God. Wrath is the 7 trumpets. A different view with different information is the 7 vials. Both the trumpets and vials happen in the same timeframe and that timeframe is the wrath of God.

You got the part of matching Matthew 24:29 to the sixth seal event right. The great tribulation will almost be over. Matthew 24:29 refers to the tribulation of those days, and not the great tribulation of those days - because the great tribulation will not be completely over.

And, the sixth seal event is not the day of Jesus's return, but a little before it. The actual day of Jesus's return is in Revelation 19.

The sixth seal event is the sign of the Son of Man in heaven of Matthew 24:30a.

The world will see Jesus before the throne of God, sickle in hand. It will terrify the wicked of the world. What they will see will be the Father, who is sitting on the throne, His face hidden by glory. And Jesus, the Son, the Lamb of God, sickle in hand.

Revelation 6:
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The wrath of the Lamb is referring to Jesus, the Son of God. The wrath of God is referring to the wrath of God the Father.

 

[rebuilder 454]

Jesus returns to the earth at the 6th trumpet and at the 6th vial, I would think. These are the same timeframe which is the wrath of God. We do know for sure that Jesus has returned at the 7th trumpet and 7th vial............again these are the same timeframe...........the end of the wrath of God.

Noah returned AFTER the flood.
I do not see where Jesus returns, and is on earth during the 7 yr GT ( trib then wrath as you would say)
He returns in power after the 7 yr GT.
Rev 19.
No return prewrath.
Rev 14 is 2 gatherings to heaven. No return to earth.

 

[The Light]

Noah returned AFTER the flood.

Jesus will return with the armies of heaven at the end of the trumpets for Armageddon and to set up His kingdom.

I do not see where Jesus returns, and is on earth during the 7 yr GT ( trib then wrath as you would say)

Jesus returns in Matthew 24 which occurs at the 6th seal, which seen in Rev 14

Revelation 14
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.

He remains in the clouds and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. All return to heaven for the marriage supper.

Here is the multitude that goes to heaven.

Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

After the marriage supper Jesus returns to the earth with the armies of heaven.

He returns in power after the 7 yr GT.

The great tribulation is not 7 years long. The 70th week of Daniel is 7 years long. The Great Tribulation does not occur until the middle of the week.

Rev 19.
No return prewrath.

Jesus returns in Matthew 24 for the gathering from heaven and earth. Also seen in Mark 13

Mark 13
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

All remain in heaven during the 1 year wrath of God.

Jesus returns with the armies of heaven at the end of wrath which is the end of the trumpets or vials.

Rev 14 is 2 gatherings to heaven. No return to earth.

Revelation 14 is the gathering to heaven..........FOR THE MARRIAGE SUPPER.............seen in Rev 19

Revelation 19
6 And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for

 

[The Light]

You got the part of matching Matthew 24:29 to the sixth seal event right. The great tribulation will almost be over. Matthew 24:29 refers to the tribulation of those days, and not the great tribulation of those days - because the great tribulation will not be completely over.

Douggg,
We see the great tribulation in Matthew 24 and then we see in Matthew 24 that the tribulation of those days is over.
I have no idea how you can conclude with these two pieces of scripture that the great tribulation is not over.

What is written is the truth. The great tribulation is OVER at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matthew 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

And, the sixth seal event is not the day of Jesus's return, but a little before it. The actual day of Jesus's return is in Revelation 19.

Jesus returns in the clouds for the gathering from heaven and earth. He sends His angels to gather the elect.

Revelation 14

All return to heaven for the marriage supper. This is why there is a great multitude in Rev 7 and some of them have come out of the great tribulation.

Revelation 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 14
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

The sixth seal event is the sign of the Son of Man in heaven of Matthew 24:30a.

The world will see Jesus before the throne of God, sickle in hand. It will terrify the wicked of the world. What they will see will be the Father, who is sitting on the throne, His face hidden by glory. And Jesus, the Son, the Lamb of God, sickle in hand.

Jesus seen in the clouds in Matthew 24...........6th seal coming. It is the second coming. When Jesus returns for Armageddon at the end of the trumpet that is Jesus return with the armies of heaven in Rev 19. That will result in Jesus setting up His kingdom on the earth. This is the second advent.

Revelation 6:
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The wrath of the Lamb is referring to Jesus, the Son of God. The wrath of God is referring to the wrath of God the Father.

The wrath of God is the same as the wrath of the Lamb, unless you don't think Jesus is God?

 

[Douggg]

Douggg,
We see the great tribulation in Matthew 24 and then we see in Matthew 24 that the tribulation of those days is over.
I have no idea how you can conclude with these two pieces of scripture that the great tribulation is not over.

The great tribulation will not be completely over when the sixth seal event takes place. I will explain.

The sixth seal event is the sign of the Son of man in heaven, Jesus sickle in hand. It will terrify the wicked men of the earth.

In reaction, in Revelation 16:13-14, the beast-king, the false prophet and Satan, convince the kings of the earth to make war on Jesus in hopes of keeping Jesus from executing judgment on them.

They prepare for 45 days.

Then, right before Jesus descends to earth at the end of those 45 days, there will be one last vial (the seventh vial) of God's wrath of the great tribulation poured out in Revelation 16:17-21, the great earthquake, and huge hail.


Here is an excerpt from my main timeline chart of the 7 years.

It shows the 1290 days, the 1335 days great tribulation, the sign of the Son of man, the 7th vial of God's wrath. The three asterisks is the kings of the earth armies gathering at Armageddon.







Here is the full chart of the 7 years. Just follow the red line from upper left corner to lower right corner.

 

[The Light]

The great tribulation will not be completely over when the sixth seal event takes place. I will explain.

The sixth seal event is the sign of the Son of man in heaven, Jesus sickle in hand. It will terrify the wicked men of the earth.

In reaction, in Revelation 16:13-14, the beast-king, the false prophet and Satan, convince the kings of the earth to make war on Jesus in hopes of keeping Jesus from executing judgment on them.

They prepare for 45 days.

Then, right before Jesus descends to earth at the end of those 45 days, there will be one last vial (the seventh vial) of God's wrath of the great tribulation poured out in Revelation 16:17-21, the great earthquake, and huge hail.

This cannot be correct. The great tribulation is OVER at the 6th. Then there is 30 minutes before wrath begins. Wrath is one year. Those 45 days have nothing to do with the events during the wrath of God.