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God chose you = FATE
You chose God = FAITH
So which are you saved by .. FATE alone or FAITH alone?
i dunno, it might be seen that the one thief just changed his mind, under the overwhelming weight of the evidence or whatever. If you have no free will, you are not responsible for changing your mind, it seems to me.
BINGO .. He foreknew who would have faith ("Christians") and chose them!skypair,
From which Bible have you read that 'God chose you = FATE'?
In the Bible I read, God chose Christians = election/predestination (see Rom 8:28-30; 1 Pet 1:1-2).
God chose you = FATE
You chose God = FAITH
So which are you saved by .. FATE alone or FAITH alone?
ya, not buying it, sorry.you are not responsible for being born into sin, the condemned state of being separated from God's Presence, but God is responsible for inviting you to be with Him in His Glory in Christ Jesus. there is no changing of mind, there is not knowing He is who He is, and the revelation of His Word in His Presence revealing who He is.
Rom_10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
how many hear the Word of God as rubbish according to them, and how many hear and are Saved? it is revealed to the now Saved and not to the others. don't think that its their choice, because even the devils acknowledged Christ when they were in His Presence in the flesh, and they rejected Him long ago as their Lord and were cast out of God's Presence, how did Jesus say it, like a bolt of lightening. and when Jesus returns all flesh will bow willingly or not, a required acknowledgement of a Rightful King.
God chose you = FATE
You chose God = FAITH
So which are you saved by .. FATE alone or FAITH alone?
BINGO .. He foreknew who would have faith ("Christians") and chose them!
Here's what that equation looks like: FAITH = God chose you b/c you had faith in God.
Now let's look at the other one: FATE = You have faith b/c God chose you. But in this case, what is your faith in? Is it in Christ OR it is in "election?" It's clearly in election b/c you believe that God chose you to salvation, right?
skypair
God chose you = FATE
You chose God = FAITH
So which are you saved by .. FATE alone or FAITH alone?
God chose you = FATE
You chose God = FAITH
So which are you saved by .. FATE alone or FAITH alone?
"Fate," events and destiny determined by the gods, was what the Greeks put in opposition to "free will." Calvinists chose to believe in fate (sovereignty of God) rather than free will (God-given sovereignty of man over his own choices and destiny).What is fate? It is 'the will or principle or determining cause by which things in general are believed to come to be as they are or events to happen as they do' (Merriam-Webster Dictionary 2017. s v fate).
I do not find any concept of fate in the Bible. I do find teaching on God's sovereignty - He is in control or in charge (Ps 115:3; Prov 16:9; Rom 8:28).
Assuming that He wants such sovereignty at all times (as Calvinists do). However, God has sovereignly chosen to be sovereign over the CONSEQUENCES of men's decisions rather than overpower them.What is God's sovereignty?
Sovereignty can be defined as having supreme authority, control, and power over all that has happened, is happening, and will happen in the future in all times across all history.
Sure .. but that last thought is kills total sovereignty. "Permissive will" is, at its heart, allowing man to sovereignly choose for himself of his own will what he will think, do, say, etc. That is how God's sovereignty works .. we choose - He either judges or has mercy.Christians define it as the ruler of the universe, God, having the right, the authority, and the power to govern all that happens and what has, is, or will happen being in accordance to His divine will. He has the right to achieve His purposes and has the power to bring about circumstances that dictate whatever He wills to come to pass. He has complete control of everything and there is nothing that is done that is not done by or allowed through His will.
…like Calvinists say that He does, right? They tell us that God determines our fates — saved or reprobate — before creation.God is sovereign but he doesn't act according to fate.
Very good! Did you realize in writing this that there are many beliefs in God but only two operative gospels in effect now? One of those gospels, the everlasting gospel, knows the Godhead (Ro 1:18-20) worships and thanks Him but is not saved. In this group are largely children who cannot comprehend sin and so, cannot repent of their sin and selfish nature. So yes, these have a very primitive "measure of faith." All kids, it would seem, brought up in Christian homes would be included here for sure, right? In the Bible, Job and Cornelius are examples of adults that were "safe" under the everlasting gospel until God sent "messengers" (Job 33:23-32) to tell them the gospel.“You chose God = FAITH”. well if every man have been dealt the measure of Faith, then it’s no longer you choose God, but he chose you, which bring us right back to 1 Timothy 2:4 above.
so the formula should be;
God choose you = His Faith
You chose God= your belief
The phrase 'faith alone' is not found in the Bible. Martin Luther tried to add the phrase in order to bolster his idea that works have nothing to do with salvation.
Modern Christians often misunderstand the meaning of faith. Faith is a position of the mind, heart, will; it is a suspension of the internal critic / creating a space for learning new ideas / being open to what happens / assuming a position of expectation, practicing awe and wonder. Ironically, many people believe faith means certainty or sticking to an idea no matter what.....
It is this fundamental misunderstanding and misuse of the term that often drives atheists crazy when they engage with Christians of the fundamentalist ilk.
Romans 5:1 tells us that faith is the reason for our salvation.
I believe having 'free will' discounts the idea that 'fate' can take us anywhere. The decision is ours and God asks us to make a decision. If we have faith, hopefully we will make the best decision and live according to that faith.