Fetal Personhood

[Stan B]

My brother, even Peter acknowledged that Jesus is the "stone" or, rather, the cornerstone. You have been misled.


1 Peter 2:7-9 ESV
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

3 They all atethe same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.… I Cor 10

47The LORD lives, and blessed be my Rock!And may God, the Rock of my salvation,be exalted— 2 Sam 22

 

[Augustin56]

My brother, even Peter acknowledged that Jesus is the "stone" or, rather, the cornerstone. You have been misled.


1 Peter 2:7-9 ESV
So the honor is for you who believe, but for those who do not believe, “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and “A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word, as they were destined to do. But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

It's not an either/or situation, but a both/and. Jesus fused Peter onto Himself.

Notice, our Lord says to Peter in Matthew 16:17-19:

And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Jesus uses the second-person personal pronoun seven times in just three verses. The context is clearly one of Jesus communicating a unique authority to Peter.

Further, Jesus is portrayed as the builder of the Church, not the building. He says, “I will build my church.” Jesus is “the wise man who built his house upon the rock” (7:24) in Matthew’s Gospel. Once again, it just does not fit the context to have Jesus building the Church upon himself. He’s building it upon Peter.

A lot of folks miss the significance of Simon’s name change to Peter. When God revealed to certain of his people a new and radical calling in Scripture, he sometimes changed their names. In particular, we find this in the calling of the Patriarchs. Abram (“exalted father” in Hebrew) was changed to Abraham (“father of the multitudes”), Jacob (“supplanter”) to Israel (“One who prevails with God”).

In fact, there is an interesting parallel here between Abraham and Peter. In Isaiah 51:1-2, we read,

Hearken to me, you who pursue deliverance, you who seek the Lord; look to the rock from which you were hewn. . . . Look to Abraham your father.

Jesus here makes Peter a true “father” over the household of faith, just as God made Abraham our true “father” in the Faith (see Rom. 4:1-18; James 2:21). Hence, it is fitting that Peter’s successors are called “pope” or “papa,” as was Abraham (see Luke 16:24).

When we understand that Christ is the true “son of David” who came to restore the prophetic kingdom of David, we understand that Christ in Matthew 16, like the king of Israel, was establishing a “prime minister” among his ministers—the apostles—in the kingdom. Isaiah 22:15-22 gives us insight into the ministry of the “prime minister” in ancient Israel:

Thus says the Lord God of hosts, “Come, go to this steward, to Shebna, who is over the household, and say to him . . . behold the Lord will hurl you away violently. . . . I will thrust you from your office, and you will be cast down from your station. In that day I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah, and I will clothe him with your robe, and will bind your girdle on him, and will commit your authority to his hand; and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and to the house of Judah. And I will place on his shoulder the key of the House of David; he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

In Revelation 1:18, Jesus declares, “I have the keys of Death and Hades.” He then quotes this very text from Isaiah in Revelation 3:7:

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write: “The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one shall shut, who shuts and no one opens.”

No Christian would deny Jesus is the king who possesses the keys. Whom does he give the keys to? Peter!

 

[Augustin56]

3 They all atethe same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.… I Cor 10

Stan, it's not an either/or situation, but a both/and. The name Peter means Rock. The Bible has Jesus changing Simon's name to Peter (Rock) and he is referred to all over the New Testament as Peter (Rock).

 

[Stan B]

Stan, it's not an either/or situation, but a both/and. The name Peter means Rock. The Bible has Jesus changing Simon's name to Peter (Rock) and he is referred to all over the New Testament as Peter (Rock).

Augustine, Peter was bestowed with some amazing characteristics and power, but I don’t see exercise of these powers mentioned in Scripture, which doesn’t mean that they didn’t happen; just that they were not mentioned.

Following the resurrection, Peter seemed to recede into the background, with a very minor contribution to the content of Scripture.

The time had come to create a new post resurrection world, but instead of Peter. Jesus chose Paul, the zealous persecutor of th saints to head up the church.

Jesus chose Paul, a Hebrew of the Hebrews, the equivalent of a Rabbinical PhD who studied under Gamaliel. A great resume for the one who with an intimate knowledge of the Tennach was to write most of the New Testament; not a job for a comparatively illiterate fisherman.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Numbers 5:11-27

Show us one verse where abortion is condemned.

nICE TRY BUT NO. Defiles is not pregnant and there is nothing there that says she must destroy the baby in the womb.

There is no specific passage that condemns abortion. but God calls people in the womb, God commanded the punishment of killing a slave is a man hits a pregnant woman and she miscarries. that is enough to let me know God cares for that life in the womb. Medical science has proven that teh child in teh womb is living.

If abortionis not the murder of a human being to you then what is it?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yeah, rather common knowledge:

“20But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse d among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” Num 5

Nice try using a modern paraphrase. But the belly to swell is not an abortion or a miscarriage. Also a miscarriage is not an abortion where one intentionally kills the child in the womb.

This passage is to show the womans guilt in adultery and not a pregnancy at all. You need to look at teh Hbrew.

 

[marksman]

Propaganda is communication that is primarily used to influence or persuade an audience to further an agenda in this case by using using loaded language to produce an emotional rather than a rational response. So yes, it is propaganda.

No it is not. It is the truth

 

[marksman]

pray for one another" we ask the Saints to pray for us

Ask away my brother. it is a waste of time.

 

[Augustin56]

Ask away my brother. it is a waste of time.

Maybe so. I'm assuming you wouldn't pray for me if I asked you to do so, correct?

 

[TinMan]

nICE TRY BUT NO. Defiles is not pregnant and there is nothing there that says she must destroy the baby in the womb.

She takes a "magic potion" that will cause an abortion if she really is pregnant. She doesn't have a choice in this. Its a mandate

There is no specific passage that condemns abortion. but God calls people in the womb, God commanded the punishment of killing a slave is a man hits a pregnant woman and she miscarries. that is enough to let me know God cares for that life in the womb. Medical science has proven that teh child in teh womb is living.

If abortionis not the murder of a human being to you then what is it?

It's not a living human being.

 

[TinMan]

No it is not. It is the truth

The fact you don't like it doesn't mean the propaganda magically becomes something else.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

She takes a "magic potion" that will cause an abortion if she really is pregnant. She doesn't have a choice in this. Its a mandate

It's not a living human being.

Sorry, but it is not ending a pregnancy. Look it up in Bible Hub or blue letter bible or a concordance.

If it is not a living human being then what kind of living thing is it???????????????????????????????????

 

[Augustin56]

She takes a "magic potion" that will cause an abortion if she really is pregnant. She doesn't have a choice in this. Its a mandate

It's not a living human being.

Of course it's living! Living things grow. Look up the term "fetus." A fetus is not a clump of disorganized cells. A fetus is an "unborn young." A human fetus is an unbor young human! And by the time many women find out their pregnant, the baby has its own DNA, blood type, etc. It is a separate living human being!

 

[TinMan]

Of course it's living! Living things grow. Look up the term "fetus." A fetus is not a clump of disorganized cells. A fetus is an "unborn young." A human fetus is an unbor young human! And by the time many women find out their pregnant, the baby has its own DNA, blood type, etc. It is a separate living human being!

Crystals grow. Are they living?

 

[Augustin56]

In order to call something a living organism, it has to be able to breathe, grow, eat, reproduce and develop. That disqualifies crystals. (Science lesson of the day. You're welcome!)

 

[Stan B]

Sorry, but it is not ending a pregnancy. Look it up in Bible Hub or blue letter bible or a concordance.

If it is not a living human being then what kind of living thing is it???????????????????????????????????

Tinman is correct!! The big difference between him and you is that he has read the Bible and you haven't! You really don't have to read all that far into the Bible to find when a person becomes a LIVING BEING! I Gen 2, God says that a person becomes a living being when God breathes into his nostrils the BREATH OF LIFE.

If you don't believe God, then from there it's all up to you and Satan.

 

[Stan B]

Of course it's living! Living things grow. Look up the term "fetus." A fetus is not a clump of disorganized cells. A fetus is an "unborn young." A human fetus is an unbor young human! And by the time many women find out their pregnant, the baby has its own DNA, blood type, etc. It is a separate living human being!

Yeah! So is cancer human!

Just because some growth contains human DNA like cancer, doesn't make it a LIVING BEING!

For those of us who have taken the time to read even the 1st couple chapters of the Bible, GOD declares that a person becomes a LIVING BEING when God BREATHES INTO IT'S NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE. Gen2

It doesn't take a vast amount of intelligence to understand when a fetus becomes a LIVING being.

 

[Stan B]

Of course it's living! Living things grow. Look up the term "fetus." A fetus is not a clump of disorganized cells. A fetus is an "unborn young." A human fetus is an unbor young human! And by the time many women find out their pregnant, the baby has its own DNA, blood type, etc. It is a separate living human being!

Yeah, until a fetus exits the womb and becomes a VIABLE LIVING BEING, it's still just a part of the mother's body connected via an umbilical cord.

 

[Augustin56]

Yeah! So is cancer a human!

Just because some growth contains human DNA like cancer, doesn't make it a LIVING BEING!

For those of us who have taken the time to read even the 1st couple chapters of the Bible, GOD declares that a person becomes a LIVING BEING when God BREATHES INTO IT'S NOSTRILS THE BREATH OF LIFE. Gen2

It doesn't take a vast amount of intelligence to understand when a fetus becomes a LIVING being.

Stan, that's a swing and a miss. Not all living things are humans. Other animals and plants are living, also. Humans, however, are special. We're made in the image and likeness of God. We have been given an intellect and a free will by which we can think and choose. Every human being, regardless of status, is given certain rights like every human, including the right to life. Our rights, by the way, come from God, not man. If they did come from man, man could arbitrarily take them away at will. As the Declaration of Independence (from the U.S.) says, among other things, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. I think they were onto something, eh? Or do you believe that only certain people should have rights?

God breathed life into the first human, Adam, in Gen. 2:7. It never said Adam was "born" or was a baby or even a fetus. Adam, therefore, is a special case. Nice try, though. At least you're thinking!

Living things grow. The definition of "fetus" is "unborn young." A human fetus is an unborn young human!

And we cannot afford to go around selecting classes of people based on race, gender, ethnicity, or health to determine who gets to live and who doesn't. The Nazi's tried that and created genocide.

 

[Stan B]

Stan, that's a swing and a miss. Not all living things are humans. Other animals and plants are living, also. Humans, however, are special. We're made in the image and likeness of God. We have been given an intellect and a free will by which we can think and choose. Every human being, regardless of status, is given certain rights like every human, including the right to life. Our rights, by the way, come from God, not man. If they did come from man, man could arbitrarily take them away at will. As the Declaration of Independence (from the U.S.) says, among other things, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. I think they were onto something, eh? Or do you believe that only certain people should have rights?

God breathed life into the first human, Adam, in Gen. 2:7. It never said Adam was "born" or was a baby or even a fetus. Adam, therefore, is a special case. Nice try, though. At least you're thinking!

Ausgustin, stop playing silly games with me!! I know Scripture inside out!! And you are either Biblically illiterate, or you are attempting demonic false teaching!

Job confirms the Genesis account:
“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay."
“The Spirit of God has made me,

Yup! God was still making people from clay in Job's time, and he goes on to re-confirm saying that:

"the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33

"Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27
Job confirms the Genesis account:

“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay."
“The Spirit of God has made me,

Yup! God was still making people from clay in Job's time, and he goes on to re-confirm saying that:

"the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33

"Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27

Try another demonic attack on Scripture!!