Fetal Personhood

[Josho]

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Following the Supreme Court's decision that overturned Roe v. Wade, pro-life groups are focused on creating laws that grant fetuses the same legal rights and protections as any person.

"So-called fetal personhood laws would make abortion murder, ruling out all or most of the exceptions for abortion allowed in states that already ban it," The New York Times reported Sunday.

Pro-life groups hope that going that route will establish a federal ban on abortion through legislation or another Supreme Court decision.

"Personhood has always been the ultimate ambition of the anti-abortion movement," University of California, Davis professor Mary Ziegler, historian of abortion, told the Times.

"The movement very much wants a declaration that abortion is a human rights and constitutional rights violation. Not just that it's a crime; that it's unconstitutional. From a symbolic standpoint, that's a really big deal to a lot of people in the movement."

The Supreme Court on June 24 overruled the 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling creating a constitutional right to an abortion.

In a 6-3 decision, the court upheld a Mississippi law that bans abortion after 15 weeks of pregnancy, that the Constitution does not enshrine a right to an abortion, and that the issue belongs with the states.

The Times said that simply returning the regulation of abortion to the states never was enough for pro-life supporters.

"Life begins at conception, and this bill is a straightforward first step towards updating our federal laws to reflect that fact," Rep. Mike Johnson, R-La., said in proposing the Unborn Child Support Act in Congress last month.

The Roe decision had prohibited states from banning abortion before a fetus can survive outside the womb, which is now around 23 or 24 weeks.

The justices, identifying a right to abortion in the Fourteenth Amendment, declared that the word "person" in that amendment did "not include the unborn."

Pro-life groups, however, believe that "person" did include the unborn.

In 1980, the Republican Party platform first included support for a "human life amendment" that would "restore protection of the right to life for unborn children."

Republicans in the U.S. House and Senate have introduced legislation that would establish a right to child support for fetuses beginning at conception.

In Georgia, a fetus now qualifies for tax credits and child support, and is to be included in population counts and redistricting. '""""

Would take a miracle for it to ever be banned in Australia, where most people are brain-washed into thinking it's a woman's right.

 

[Stan B]

Would take a miracle for it to ever be banned in Australia, where most people are brain-washed into thinking it's a woman's right.

I don’t recall any place scripture says that a politician should own a woman’s body, and a woman should have no rights over what she does with her own body! That is an anti-biblical demonic concept!!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I did not say that what is growing inside are not living cells! Just like cancer growing inside a women’s body are not living cells. Even poop contains living cells. So . . . Whether cancer or fetus they both are connected as part of ghd woman’s body from whom they obtain their sustenance; but neither is VIABLE LIVING BEING capable of living on their own.

So then what are these cells growing ? If they are living does that mean they have the breath of life already? If they are not human what are they? where in teh bible does it say A person gets the breath of life only when they exit the womb?

So God says that a fetus becomes a
living being only after HE breathes into it’s NOSTRILS the BREATH of LIFE!

And that passage is found where? Please do not use Genesis for Adam was not a fetus.

2. The fetus would have to have exited the womb, because nostrils don’t operate inside the womb submerged in amniotic fluid, or it would drown. The fetus is still dependent upon being part of the mother’s body for oxygen.

YOu need to learn medical reality. Babies breath amniotic fluid!

3. During the nomal birth process, the takes it’s first gasp of breath when it is no longer part of the mother’s body when the umbilical cord is severed, and God breathes into its NOSTRILS the BREATH of LIFE!!

Another lie you have been duped to believe in! They get babies breathing before they cut the cord most of the time. Don't believe me- go ask a gyn/obs.

You say you have read the Bible, but Tinman have also read the Bible. Why are Tinman and I in agreement with each other?? Because we have sought guidance PROMISED by the Holy Spirit:

So you are saying that I and tens of millions of believers who believe human life begins at conception have not sought the Spirits guidance? Wow! How extremely haughty and snobbish you make yourself out to be.

Must be nice to consider yourself in such an elite crows- First teh trinity, then you and tinman.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

All the Cannibals I know are Christians!

So you know Christians who eat humans? Why have you not reported them to the proper authorities to stop this hideous crime? That makes you an accessory!

 

[Stan B]

So you know Christians who eat humans? Why have you not reported them to the proper authorities to stop this hideous crime? That makes you an accessory!

Yeah, Roman Catholics conjure up the REAL body and blood of Christ on a daily basis to be eaten and drunk at their Eucharist!!

 

[Stan B]

So then what are these cells growing ? If they are living does that mean they have the breath of life already? If they are not human what are they? where in teh bible does it say A person gets the breath of life only when they exit the womb?

And that passage is found where? Please do not use Genesis for Adam was not a fetus.

YOu need to learn medical reality. Babies breath amniotic fluid!

Another lie you have been duped to believe in! They get babies breathing before they cut the cord most of the time. Don't believe me- go ask a gyn/obs.

So you are saying that I and tens of millions of believers who believe human life begins at conception have not sought the Spirits guidance? Wow! How extremely haughty and snobbish you make yourself out to be.

Must be nice to consider yourself in such an elite crows- First teh trinity, then you and tinman.

>>A person gets the breath of life only when they exit the womb?
And that passage is found where? Please do not use Genesis for Adam was not a fetus.

God created ALL fetuses from dirt. God knew that unbelievers like you would come along, so He had His messenger Job confirmsthe Genesis account:

“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay."
“The Spirit of God has made me,

Yup! God was still making people from clay in Job's time, and he goes on to re-confirm saying that:

"the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33

"Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27

Should He gather to Himself His spirit and His breath, All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust." Job 34:14-15

>>So you are saying that I and tens of millions of believers who believe human life begins at conception have not sought the Spirits guidance? Wow! How extremely haughty and snobbish you make yourself out to be.

I have suggested no such thing. They are definitely NOT BELIEVERS!! They are unBelievers who reject the Word of God, and have instead chosen to follow the teachings of Satan.

 

[Jack]

>>A person gets the breath of life only when they exit the womb?
And that passage is found where? Please do not use Genesis for Adam was not a fetus.

God created ALL fetuses from dirt. God knew that unbelievers like you would come along, so He had His messenger Job confirmsthe Genesis account:

“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay."
“The Spirit of God has made me,

Yup! God was still making people from clay in Job's time, and he goes on to re-confirm saying that:

"the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33

"Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27

Should He gather to Himself His spirit and His breath, All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust." Job 34:14-15

>>So you are saying that I and tens of millions of believers who believe human life begins at conception have not sought the Spirits guidance? Wow! How extremely haughty and snobbish you make yourself out to be.

I have suggested no such thing. They are definitely NOT BELIEVERS!! They are unBelievers who reject the Word of God, and have instead chosen to follow the teachings of Satan.

You promote eating human babies and have the nerve to call him 'unbelievers like you'? lol

 

[Stan B]

You promote eating human babies and have the nerve to call him 'unbelievers like you'? lol

As I recall, you a are Roman Catholic cannibal who eats the actual body and blood of Christ at the eucharist. You are a self-admitted cannibal.

 

[Jack]

As I recall, you a are Roman Catholic cannibal who eats the actual body and blood of Christ at the eucharist. You are a self-admitted cannibal.

You recall wrong Stan! You are the one promoting cannibalism. You promote eating babies. Eating human babies is Satanic Liberalism. You're consistently using Liberal tactics, accusing others of what you do! I think Jesus will call that being a liar!

And Jesus said, " all liars will have their part in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone".

 

[Josho]

I don’t recall any place scripture says that a politician should own a woman’s body, and a woman should have no rights over what she does with her own body! That is an anti-biblical demonic concept!!

Woman should have rights, all humans should have rights, however abortion should not be called a "right", it is a wrong, it's murder, I understand most women who come to these decisions are in tough situations, but the baby is innocent, the baby deserves the right to live, why kill a baby?

Can you imagine what type of person it takes to be an abortionist? What type of person wants to murder babies for a living? That has gotta be the worst part about abortions. Now you may say what about the abortion pill? Does the inventor of the abortion pill have a conscience?

Now all that may be considered acceptable in a modern western world. But now we live in a world that cares about animals more than human life. Some of the same people who support abortion and human euthanasia, oppose eating beef and lamb for humans to eat to live, they oppose cutting down a tree because little critters may get hurt, yet they think abortion and euthanasia for humans is acceptable.

Now what kind of world is that where they value animal life more than human life?

 

[Stan B]

Woman should have rights, all humans should have rights, however abortion should not be called a "right", it is a wrong, it's murder, I understand most women who come to these decisions are in tough situations, but the baby is innocent, the baby deserves the right to live, why kill a baby?

Can you imagine what type of person it takes to be an abortionist? What type of person wants to murder babies for a living? That has gotta be the worst part about abortions. Now you may say what about the abortion pill? Does the inventor of the abortion pill have a conscience?

Now all that may be considered acceptable in a modern western world. But now we live in a world that cares about animals more than human life. Some of the same people who support abortion and human euthanasia, oppose eating beef and lamb for humans to eat to live, they oppose cutting down a tree because little critters may get hurt, yet they think abortion and euthanasia for humans is acceptable.

Now what kind of world is that where they value animal life more than human life?

I don't know what kind of religion you follow, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible or Christianity.

You obviuiosly hate the God of the Bible who instead of banning abortion, demands abortion such as in the case of a fetus being conceived from an adulteress relationship. In those days the abortion was performed by the Levitial priest:

"But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse— “may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” Numbers 5:20-22 NIV

This is the God against whom you and anti-abortionists direct their hatred, and demand that THEY have the sole right to control what a woman does with her own body. The concept of FREEDOM; any "freedom" THEY don't control is trampled into the ground. They have submitted to their god Satan, who is trying to make God the culprit. We have been freed from the law. Satan desires to bring us all back into the bondage of HIS laws. Hail Satan!!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yeah, Roman Catholics conjure up the REAL body and blood of Christ on a daily basis to be eaten and drunk at their Eucharist!!

And this has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is just a rabbit trail.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have suggested no such thing. They are definitely NOT BELIEVERS!! They are unBelievers who reject the Word of God, and have instead chosen to follow the teachings of Satan.

So according to your statement, if someone believes life begins at conception, they are lost and going to hell? WOW I guess you have made your own Bible. Cause that is not what God says is what is necessary to be a believer.

God created ALL fetuses from dirt. God knew that unbelievers like you would come along, so He had His messenger Job confirmsthe Genesis account:

“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay."
“The Spirit of God has made me,

Yup! God was still making people from clay in Job's time, and he goes on to re-confirm saying that:

"the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33

So that conception in the womb is just a pile of dirt? Until when? Now granted we are all chemicals but it seems we just differ on when your supposed hunk of dirt becomes human.

So despite the known and proven facts- to you it is not a living human being, but just a pile of dirt until it breathes outside the womb?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

>>A person gets the breath of life only when they exit the womb?
And that passage is found where? Please do not use Genesis for Adam was not a fetus.

God created ALL fetuses from dirt. God knew that unbelievers like you would come along, so He had His messenger Job confirmsthe Genesis account:

“Behold, I belong to God like you;
I too have been formed out of the clay."
“The Spirit of God has made me,

Yup! God was still making people from clay in Job's time, and he goes on to re-confirm saying that:

"the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33

"Till I die I will not put away my integrity from me.
For as long as life is in me,
And the breath of God is in my nostrils" Job 27

Should He gather to Himself His spirit and His breath, All flesh would perish together, And man would return to dust." Job 34:14-15

>>So you are saying that I and tens of millions of believers who believe human life begins at conception have not sought the Spirits guidance? Wow! How extremely haughty and snobbish you make yourself out to be.

I have suggested no such thing. They are definitely NOT BELIEVERS!! They are unBelievers who reject the Word of God, and have instead chosen to follow the teachings of Satan.

Do you even know what it takes to become a believer??????????????????????????????????????????????

Because from what you just wrote, you appear clueless.

 

[Stan B]

And this has nothing to do with the topic at hand and is just a rabbit trail.

Eating and drinking Jesus’ flesh and blood sounds to me a lot like cannibalism!

 

[Jack]

Eating and drinking Jesus’ flesh and blood sounds to me a lot like cannibalism!

You're not very good at twisting Scripture.

 

[Stan B]

You're not very good at twisting Scripture.

Agreed! I haven’t had nearly the experience in twisting Scripture as you. Thanks! You’ve been a great teacher!

 

[Jack]

Agreed! I haven’t had nearly the experience in twisting Scripture as you. Thanks! You’ve been a great teacher!

I didn't twist any. You twisted the curse of Dt 28. You said it's a blessing from God to eat babies. Dt 28 says it's a curse. Why do Liberals accuse others of what they do?

 

[Josho]

I don't know what kind of religion you follow, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible or Christianity.

You obviuiosly hate the God of the Bible who instead of banning abortion, demands abortion such as in the case of a fetus being conceived from an adulteress relationship. In those days the abortion was performed by the Levitial priest:

"But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse— “may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” Numbers 5:20-22 NIV

This is the God against whom you and anti-abortionists direct their hatred, and demand that THEY have the sole right to control what a woman does with her own body. The concept of FREEDOM; any "freedom" THEY don't control is trampled into the ground. They have submitted to their god Satan, who is trying to make God the culprit. We have been freed from the law. Satan desires to bring us all back into the bondage of HIS laws. Hail Satan!!

You are trying to use a verse to justify the actions of abortionists, anybody can cherry pick a verse and try to use it to justify a sin.

But that verse you used there was a curse of the law, those that lived in OT times brought a curse on themselves when they sinned, we are no longer under the law, we are now under the covenant of grace and forgiveness.

We aren't even supposed to speak curses under the new covenant, the book of James tells us "This ought not to be so." In regards to blessing and cursing coming out of the same mouth, Ephesians tells us "let no corrupting talk come out of our mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear." We are meant to speak blessing, encouragement, words of building up and not words of tearing down and curses.

So where in the NT does it say go and kill a baby? It doesn't, but it says stuff about murderers not entering through the pearly gates doesn't it? Of course it can be forgiven but that requires repentance.

So what is the intention of an abortionist?

Kill babies to make money, now that is just wrong and evil and sick, do they even have a conscience?. This is example of people doing anything for money no matter how wrong or evil it is.

 

[Jack]

I don't know what kind of religion you follow, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Bible or Christianity.

You obviuiosly hate the God of the Bible who instead of banning abortion, demands abortion such as in the case of a fetus being conceived from an adulteress relationship. In those days the abortion was performed by the Levitial priest:

"But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— here the priest is to put the woman under this curse— “may the Lord cause you to become a curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” Numbers 5:20-22 NIV

This is the God against whom you and anti-abortionists direct their hatred, and demand that THEY have the sole right to control what a woman does with her own body. The concept of FREEDOM; any "freedom" THEY don't control is trampled into the ground. They have submitted to their god Satan, who is trying to make God the culprit. We have been freed from the law. Satan desires to bring us all back into the bondage of HIS laws. Hail Satan!!

He hates God because he loves babies? And you love God and promote eating babies?