Folks are tired of a reformation and hunger for a transformation, which Acts 2:38 will provide

[mailmandan]

You said....

Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins".

Peter said...

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You put me in a tough position as to whether or not I should believe you or Peter.

You'll believe whatever your church tells you to believe. Campbellites are easily indoctrinated by their church. Since "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first, Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter "omits the parenthesis." Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, *(what happened to baptism?)* so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. I believe Peter.

As Greek scholar AT Robertson stated: Unto the remission of your sins (eiv afesin twn amartiwn umwn). This phrase is the subject of endless controversy as men look at it from the standpoint of sacramental or of evangelical theology... Change of number from plural to singular and of person from second to third. This change marks a break in the thought here that the English translation does not preserve. The first thing to do is make a radical and complete change of heart and life. Then let each one be baptized after this change has taken place, and the act of baptism be performed “in the name of Jesus Christ” (εν τωι ονοματι Ιησου Χριστου — en tōi onomati Iēsou Christou). So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received.

Acts 2:38 (KJV) - Robertson's Word Pictures (NT)

 

[marks]

There is nothing stale about properly harmonizing scripture with scripture in order to reach the properly conclusion on doctrine and the truth. Your biased interpretation of your pet verse does not negate (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). In Matthew 3:11, we read - "I baptize you with water FOR repentance." Now did John baptize with water "in order to obtain" repentance or "in regards to/in reference to/on the basis of" repentance? Obviously the latter.

So once again, in Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

I just took a look back over that passage.

We all know, right, that "baptize" is not translated, it is transliterated, simply repeated as a Greek word using English letters. Right? And "eis" is the Greek preposition "into".

So that, translated,



Exchange your mind, and be immersed each of you upon the Name of Jesus Christ into pardon from sins.

We think of "baptism" as a holy sacrament, or a Christian observance, but the word in that day meant to dunk. Immerse. You'd baptize the dishes in the sink. Immerse.

When we read "baptize", we tend to think the word can only mean water, and of course that's a huge part of what it does mean. But not that only.

Romans 6, don't you know, you've been baptized - you've been immersed into Jesus, into His death.

Here, we are immersed into pardon from sins.

And in that is complete transformation. If you want to know freedom from sin in your daily walk, embrace grace.

Much love!

 

[Ziggy]

Is baptism a "work" ?

 

[mailmandan]

Is baptism a "work"?

Does work get accomplished by getting water baptized? I would certainly say yes. Jesus said that it's proper for Him to be baptized to fulfill all righteousness in Matthew 3:15, so baptism is a "work of righteousness." Either baptism is a work or else it's just a nothing and either it's a work of righteousness or else it's a work of unrighteousness. We can't have it both ways.

 

[Ziggy]

that could cause some discomfort regarding the "works" argument though.

Is it ok to keep the "works" of men (physical baptism) , without keeping the "works" of God's law.. the ten commandments?

such a fine line..
Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

And then you have circumcision...
I'm glad I'm a female.. but not all females get to escape this even..

Whether circumcision is of the flesh, an outward appearance, or the operation God performs on one's heart, the inward work.
If you use circumcision and put it beside Baptism, what is the difference?

Thank You
Hugs

 

[user]

To automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Jesus mentions living water in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and connects it with eternal life. In John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing.
Again, see post #20. *HERMENEUTICS*

OK so you are now on record as claiming the WATER in John 7 (living water = Spirit) is in deed the WATER in John 3.

Let's take a look...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(Spirit) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Whew! Your "HERMENEUTICS" are in absolute darkness. That's almost as good as the following, which YOU said...

You obviously do not understand how to properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.

If we don't repent then we will not believe the gospel and become saved. Repent "change of mind" - (new direction of that change of mind) - believe the gospel. Two sides to the same coin.

You said one must first repent in order to believe! ... Whew!


This is real "hermeneutics"... we must first hear the word, then repent.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[mailmandan]

OK so you are now on record as claiming the WATER in John 7 (living water = Spirit) is in deed the WATER in John 3.

I said the Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing (But this He spoke concerning the Spirit) so it's not living water = Spirit in which it's born of Spirit and the Spirit. I specifically showed you in scripture where Jesus mentions living water in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and He connects it with eternal life.

In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. So once again, Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life and living water is not water baptism/plain ordinary H20 which does not flow through our heart and has no power to cleanse the heart. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit. *HERMENEUTICS*

Let's take a look...

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(Spirit) and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

No, I did not say born of Spirit and of the Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing which still equates to born of water and the Spirit. In Titus 3:5, we read washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. So this is a reference to 'spiritual washing' or 'purification of the soul' which is accomplished by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.

Whew! Your "HERMENEUTICS" are in absolute darkness. That's almost as good as the following, which YOU said...

Your comprehension skills are in absolute darkness, along with your perverted watered down gospel.

You said one must first repent in order to believe! ... Whew!

That's correct and we are not merely just talking about "mental assent" belief in the fact that God exists. Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.

Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe in the gospel. *Notice the order.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order.

This is real "hermeneutics"... we must first hear the word, then repent.

Hear the word first followed by repent (change of mind) and the new direction of that change of mind here is believe the way of righteousness/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

We must first hear the word of God followed by repentance (change of mind) and the 'new direction' of that change of mind is faith in Christ for salvation. Two sides to the same coin.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Amen!

 

[Truther]

I'm curious..
The woman who washed Jesus' feet with her tears...
Where did she get baptized?
Luk 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

The blind beggar man yelling out to Jesus in the crowd..
When did he get baptized?
Luk 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Act 19:7 And all the men were about twelve.

I don't see any water here...

I see them being baptized in the name of the Lord though.

Just saying..
Hugs

Those instances were pre-Acts, before Acts 2:38 was commanded.

Peter was the spokesman for the Spirit led church in Acts 2:38.

He gave us the new rule to be saved here.

The OT(gospel times) cannot provide you the NT plan of salvation(Acts times).

 

[Truther]

Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify of Him, that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins. 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the message. 45 All the Jewish believers who came with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had also been poured out on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God. *(BEFORE WATER BAPTISM)* Then Peter responded, 47 “Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?”

I debunked you. Let me know when you are ready to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16; 1 Corinthians 15:1-4)

You debunked Acts 2:38(Peter) again...bad habit.

 

[Truther]

See post #38.

In 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that baptism now saves you, yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it. He said that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).

*Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, only the wicked came in contact with the water and they all perished.

They are not perverted, but your watered down gospel is.

Does baptism save us or not?...

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Yes or no?

 

[Truther]

You'll believe whatever your church tells you to believe. Campbellites are easily indoctrinated by their church. Since "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first, Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter "omits the parenthesis." Acts 3:19 - Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, *(what happened to baptism?)* so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord. I believe Peter.

As Greek scholar AT Robertson stated: Unto the remission of your sins (eiv afesin twn amartiwn umwn). This phrase is the subject of endless controversy as men look at it from the standpoint of sacramental or of evangelical theology... Change of number from plural to singular and of person from second to third. This change marks a break in the thought here that the English translation does not preserve. The first thing to do is make a radical and complete change of heart and life. Then let each one be baptized after this change has taken place, and the act of baptism be performed “in the name of Jesus Christ” (εν τωι ονοματι Ιησου Χριστου — en tōi onomati Iēsou Christou). So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received.

Acts 2:38 (KJV) - Robertson's Word Pictures (NT)

No, I believe what Peter wants me to believe per Acts 2:38, and I obeyed it.

Not what you want me to believe, disobeying Acts 2:38(Peter).

You attempt to debunk Peter, which is very naughty.

 

[Ziggy]

Those instances were pre-Acts, before Acts 2:38 was commanded.

Peter was the spokesman for the Spirit led church in Acts 2:38.

He gave us the new rule to be saved here.

The OT(gospel times) cannot provide you the NT plan of salvation(Acts times).

Ok.. So Jesus said vs. what Peter said?
I'm not touching that with a 10-foot pole.

Hugs

 

[Ziggy]

Does baptism save us or not?...

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Yes or no?

The figure of it....
the baptism of the Holy Spirit cleans your conscience. He forgives your sins you can start a new.
Baptism in water is like dying to the flesh, deeds, works..
But the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the dying of the guilt and shame of past sins.
A new creature.. fresh and clean and innocent..
But remember: the flesh profiteth nothing it is the Spirit and it is Life.
You can drown yourself as often as you like in water, but it won't clean your heart or your mind.

Will your flesh save you in the end?
Or will God's spirit in you seal you to the end?

Hugs

 

[user]

Ok.. So Jesus said vs. what Peter said?
I'm not touching that with a 10-foot pole.

Hugs

I believe the point @Truther was making is the thief on the cross, and everyone else prior to Jesus' death did not enter into the kingdom via N.T. plan of salvation because, although Jesus was close to death, he was not yet dead...

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The Birth of the N.T. church happened at Pentecost (Acts), whereby Peter (and the rest of the apostles with him) gave the salvation message of Acts 2:38.

 

[marks]

I said the Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing (But this He spoke concerning the Spirit) so it's not living water = Spirit in which it's born of Spirit and the Spirit. I specifically showed you in scripture where Jesus mentions living water in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and He connects it with eternal life.

In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. So once again, Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life and living water is not water baptism/plain ordinary H20 which does not flow through our heart and has no power to cleanse the heart. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit. *HERMENEUTICS*

No, I did not say born of Spirit and of the Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing which still equates to born of water and the Spirit. In Titus 3:5, we read washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit. So this is a reference to 'spiritual washing' or 'purification of the soul' which is accomplished by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.

Your comprehension skills are in absolute darkness, along with your perverted watered down gospel.

That's correct and we are not merely just talking about "mental assent" belief in the fact that God exists. Matthew 21:32 - For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him. *Notice the order.

Mark 1:15 - Repent and believe in the gospel. *Notice the order.

Acts 20:21 - testifying both to Jews and to Greeks of repentance toward God and of faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. *Notice the order.

Hear the word first followed by repent (change of mind) and the new direction of that change of mind here is believe the way of righteousness/believe the gospel/faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.

We must first hear the word of God followed by repentance (change of mind) and the 'new direction' of that change of mind is faith in Christ for salvation. Two sides to the same coin.

Amen!

Good job untangling all that!

Much love!

 

[Ziggy]

I believe the point @Truther was making is the thief on the cross, and everyone else prior to Jesus' death did not enter into the kingdom via N.T. plan of salvation because, although Jesus was close to death, he was not yet dead...

Hebrews 9:16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The Birth of the N.T. church happened at Pentecost (Acts), whereby Peter (and the rest of the apostles with him) gave the salvation message of Acts 2:38.

10 foot pole.. not touching it..
Hugs

 

[farouk]

Does baptism save us or not?...

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Yes or no?

It's a figure - a symbol.

 

[Truther]

Ok.. So Jesus said vs. what Peter said?
I'm not touching that with a 10-foot pole.

Hugs

Context my friend.

Also, Jesus said to pluck your eyes out and amputate your hand....unless you are perfect....

So, Jesus did not preach Acts 2:38 to the NT Church, but gave Peter the keys to do it.

 

[Truther]

The figure of it....
the baptism of the Holy Spirit cleans your conscience. He forgives your sins you can start a new.
Baptism in water is like dying to the flesh, deeds, works..
But the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is the dying of the guilt and shame of past sins.
A new creature.. fresh and clean and innocent..
But remember: the flesh profiteth nothing it is the Spirit and it is Life.
You can drown yourself as often as you like in water, but it won't clean your heart or your mind.

Will your flesh save you in the end?
Or will God's spirit in you seal you to the end?

Hugs

The conscience(spirit man only) is saved by baptism.

The flesh cannot be saved, but must die or be raptured.

Think about it.