Food for thought ...on this video

[amadeus]

You think God would lead different?

No, but I still want to always give Him the opportunity to do so, rather than presume that I am right and therefore we must go my way. Remember the unnamed man of God sent to Jeroboam from out of Judah. He failed to consult with God listening rather to another self-proclaimed prophet and as a result got in trouble with God [I Kings 13]. Just because something seems right does not always mean that it is.

 

[amadeus]

I thought it would be the same.
But maybe there's another way you look at it?

I hesitate on the use of the word, scripture rather the Word of God. They are quite similar in a way as I see it, but the difference I see is significant. I won't detail here if you are unaware of my position on it so as not to derail this thread. See the link: The Word

 

[Triumph1300]

I was thinking about the qualifications for elders, etc as listed in the New Testament.
Now I'm going for

 

[amadeus]

I was thinking about the qualifications for elders, etc as listed in the New Testament.
Now I'm going for

View attachment 2411

I just got back with my coffee, but I don't have that large of a cup nor such a vehicle to haul it in.

 

[Helen]

I agree with this, but to me if we are going to discriminate against fornication it should be an equal discrimination against any fornication.

This is what preachers should be doing, challenging us when we need to be challenged. It is certainly what Jesus did.

In opposition to the preacher's comments in this regard, I believe that a person's sexual orientation can be affected by circumstances and personal history... and he or she can be changed back to a better way in this as in anything that stands between the person and God.

He was way too strong against even God being able to change where a person is in this. We do serve a God who is able. Men have always wanted to go their own ways and wanted to limit God and have limited God. If we, on the other hand, lean heavily on God He can fix this too.

Thank you for you comments John. Much appreciated.

For myself I have not come to a good balance ( in my heart)
My first instinct is to reject them. Not only because it is ungodly ...but because God "made the male and female." When two of a kind intermingle in a sexual way... it is 100% against God's picture for us of the Lamb and His Bride.

This is my greatest objection to them... because they please and Satan work in breaking God's pure pattern of the union in Christ.

What my struggle is..with the individuals themselves.
How can we do God's will and pray in the love of Christ for them...if deep down we resent them and find them obnoxious?
( like the attitude of one who posted on here...) Is God pleased with such an attitude?
They have an agenda and their 'movement' is winning their war, because of all the left wing support they are getting ....true. But many must be hurting inside and mixed up I am sure..( Not the left wing aggressive type)
Like I say, I don't know what my "balanced spiritual attitude" should be.

Do you have a bit of a clue of what I am trying to say?
I think I need some of your wise council John...
I don't want my attitude to be wrong before God, concerning this issue. 'either way'.
I don't want to feel guilt on what I feel about them ( their actions and practices...the non active ones is another issue in itself ) but neither do I want to embrace them.. ( as the preacher on the tape obviously does. If he agrees with same sex marriage etc ) Thanks....Helen
. . . .

 

[Helen]

I hesitate on the use of the word, scripture rather the Word of God. They are quite similar in a way as I see it, but the difference I see is significant. I won't detail here if you are unaware of my position on it so as not to derail this thread. See the link: The Word

Don't worry about any derailing ....go for it!
We are quite able to have two conversations going at a time.

After all...the topic title does say " Food for thought," too. Ha!

 

[Heart2Soul]

Please don't post here unless you have actually listened to it .

It is only 30 mins long.

I'd like comment about this message...not just personal views on the subject.

Thanks...Helen.

I watched most of the video....not all of it...I have heard it preached before...I do have a personal experience to share.....I went to this church and the kids there became my friends....years later I ran into on of them who was the brother of my "boyfriend" from that church...we got to talking for quite some time...then finally he shared with me that he was gay (I kind of could already see that)....and was gay from childhood....went to church his whole life, loved God, believed in the preaching of salvation through Christ, was saved and baptized......but when he came out of the closet all those who loved him turned their back on him and had nothing more to do with him....He said this hurt a lot....then he asked me if I thought he was going to go to hell because he was gay.................................................................................long thought before I answered......................then I said....I am not your judge and I cannot say whether you will or won't....I do know that I am guilty of sexual lusts in my flesh as well, I have repented and been forgiven...but is that all that a gay person is about is sexual lust? No....it isn't....however I do believe it is a spirit that has them bound up in a deception...so that is my thoughts on the matter...I have much more to say but I will leave it at this.

 

[amadeus]

Thank you for you comments John. Much appreciated.

For myself I have not come to a good balance ( in my heart)
My first instinct is to reject them. Not only because it is ungodly ...but because God "made the male and female." When two of a kind intermingle in a sexual way... it is 100% against God's picture for us of the Lamb and His Bride.

You are correct. Part of the picture is it must be one man and one woman. But my point was that even if you have two people of the opposite sexes but as Christians one or both of them has chosen get a divorce other than for the one reason Jesus allowed [fornication], and they go ahead and marry, is that not equally wrong in the eyes of God as the same sex marriage? People in churches, including the ministers are more likely to let this ride than the same sex marriage. If you choose to effectively forgive the one, how can you not forgive the other. In the eyes of God why is one worse than the other?

This is my greatest objection to them...

because they please and Satan work in breaking God's pure pattern of the union in Christ.

Yes, even so, but both would be sin and the wages for both would be death. Are there lesser or greater sins? I believe that there are, but the lines we as people draw are not usually the same lines that God draws. We may need to look to the OT where He has drawn lines to give us an idea of what is worse. Having done that we still would need to do what Jesus would have done. Who did worse than Judas, yet how did Jesus always treat Judas even when it was clear that Jesus knew what Judas was going to do? He never condemned or criticized Judas before people. What we see is only this:

"And after the sop Satan entered into him. Then said Jesus unto him, That thou doest, do quickly." John 13:27

or this:

"And truly the Son of man goeth, as it was determined: but woe unto that man by whom he is betrayed!" Luke 22:22

What my struggle is..with the individuals themselves.
How can we do God's will and pray in the love of Christ for them...if deep down we resent them and find them obnoxious?
( like the attitude of one who posted on here...) Is God pleased with such an attitude?
They have an agenda and their 'movement' is winning their war, because of all the left wing support they are getting ....true. But many must be hurting inside and mixed up I am sure..( Not the left wing aggressive type)
Like I say, I don't know what my "balanced spiritual attitude" should be.

Yes, I hear what you are saying. You cannot in yourself seek to be a friend with such a person in a church group setting or anywhere. What I would say, is do not embrace their cause, but on a one on one situation, do not treat the person as condemned in your eyes even if in your heart you cannot help but want to condemn him. If you need to, remember the case of Corrie Ten Boom and the prison guard she met in Germany long after the war and after her sister, Betsie, was dead due certainly in part at the hands of that guard. Below is an excerpt from "Tramp for the Lord":

The place was Ravensbruck and the man who was making his way forward had been a guard--one of the most cruel guards.
Now he was in front of me, hand thrust our: "A fine message, Fräulein! How good it is to know that, as you say, all our sins are at the bottom of the sea!"

And I, who had spoken so glibly of forgiveness, fumbled in my pocketbook rather than take that hand. He would not remember me, of course--how could he remember one prisoner among the thousands of women?

But I remembered him and the leather crop swinging from his belt. I was face-to-face with one of my captors and my blood seemed to freeze.
"You mentioned Ravensbruck in your talk," he was saying. "I was a guard there." No, he did not remember me.

"But since that time, "he went on, "I have become a Christian. I know that God has forgiven me for the cruel thing I did there, -again the hand came out- "will you forgive me?"......

I wrestled with the most difficult thing I had ever had to do.
For I had to do it--I knew that. The message that God forgives has a prior condition: that we forgive those who have injure us.
"If you do not forgive men their trespasses," Jesus says, "neither will your Father in heaven forgive your trespasses."......

coldness clutching my heart....
"Jesus, help me!" I prayed silently. "I can lift my hand. I can do that much. You supply the feeling."

And so woodenly, mechanically, I thrust my hand into the one stretched out to me. And as I did, an incredible thing took place. THe current started in my shoulder, raced down my arm, sprang into out joined hands. And then this healing warmth seemed to flood my whole being, bringing tears to my eyes.
"I forgive you, brother!" I cried, "With all my heart".

She went on to say that she had never known God's love so intensely as she did at time.

Do you have a bit of a clue of what I am trying to say?
I think I need some of your wise council John...
I don't want my attitude to be wrong before God, concerning this issue. 'either way'.
I don't want to feel guilt on what I feel about them ( their actions and practices...the non active ones is another issue in itself ) but neither do I want to embrace them.. ( as the preacher on the tape obviously does. If he agrees with same sex marriage etc ) Thanks....Helen
. . . . View attachment 2412

If I were the one asked to perform ceremony I would have to refuse, but they still must be treated like people that God loves. When if a time comes on a one to one basis, do what Corrie Ten Boom did: pray! God will help you do the right thing at the right time.

 

[Helen]

@Heart2Soul

Thank you for that. You hit the nail. That is the kind of thing I am wrestling with. What is there end?

Probably , like when John asked Jesus about Peter. He would say
" What's that to you, follow thou Me."

I have two of them in my life, loosely.
One is a young man who is a son of a friend of the family. Because the son 40's lives in this city, my married daughter always asks him to come for the Christmas meal. So we see him every Christmas day...with which ever partner he happens to be with at the time.
We are more used to it now...but a few years ago it was very hard.
We knew this young man when we was a toddler.

The dilemma is , they don't stop being the same people when the 'come out'.
We knew him before, how can we un-know him?
The other person is now in his mid 50's and we led him to the Lord back when he was 12, ..he had three brothers who we also led to the Lord..plus the mother. They were a fine family once the over baring dominant father left.
So we have know them all closely since the early 70's.
The kids were the same age as my kids back then. We are all still great friends.
Yet the youngest, even back then would be know as "very sweet" spirited. Very kind and caring. It wasn't until my daughter and I went back to visit that we noticed much more with him. He and my daughter were about 26 then.
My daughter and I looked at each other afterwards and said " What about ---- what do you think?" And we agreed he had some feminine movements.
Very long story a wee bit shorter.
About 4 years ago we heard he had 'come out' ...not only that..he got legally 'married.'
It ripped me inside out. ( and it tore up the family too...as Christians they had no idea how to deal with it, or treat him)
He was always such a lovely boy, young man, and adult. Much nicer peron than many that I know.

Both these men I have written about were fine Christians before, and still very much in church now.

Wouldn't they be in inner turmoil?
Have they hardened the conscience ?
One part of me is saying " This is grace to the extreme"...the other part of me says- " shut up it is nothing to do with you...it's between them and God."

I honestly just don't know....much is just a mystery to me.

Anyone?
( except Reggie Belafonte who doesn't want to watch the video and didn't read the OP. )

 

[Helen]

remember the case of Corrie Ten Boom and the prison guard she met in Germany long after the war and after her sister, Betsie, was dead due certainly in part at the hands of that guard. Below is an excerpt from "Tramp for the Lord":

PERFECT!! Thank you...yes that brings it right back again to the heart attitude, and allowing God to work through us.
Of ourselves we can't , but we can 'step-back' as it were, and allow God to do it through us.
Yes, that is the wisdom...thanks x

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

You are a judgmental jerk I AM NOT PEDDLING ANYTHING!!!
How the heck can you judge anything...when you never even listened it it.

I started this thread to DISCUSS THE CONTENT...not have posts from a self-righteous know-it-all like you.

Strange how other people managed to listen and give their feedback.

Just go somewhere else , find a street corner to peddle your arrogance.
You know nothing about me, so keep your opinions to yourself.

You obviously didn't even read my post #5 to Triumph1300 either.
Yet you jump in here with your hobnail boots on, knowing nothing at all about what we are talking about.

Sorry but.
Boy that's harsh and lacking in grace, not to mention why become such a dictator to me.
I did read no 5 and all.
I am sick of such people peddling that stuff and will not bother to watch such porn displayed 24/7.

Fact is the Bible is correct. did you know that, am I in correct ?

You don't think that I have known poofters and I know what they get up to, they are just as the Bible says.

An adviser to Clinton, no way would I watch such a grub.

The churches have fallen over backwards for such people for years, it's everywhere and I and many true Christians will not go to such so called churches, because they are preaching humanism and not Jesus Christ. do you know what the doctrine concerning humanism truly is ?

I know exactly what he would be peddling and it's humanism added to, plus jesus, a fluffy new age Christianity that is truly the death of Christianity. do you understand that.

Only Satan's people try to push people away or out of their lives did you know that, think about it ?
I still talk to poofters I have known for 50 years or more and I have never push them away even with idiots I don't, I have seen the misery of such people first hand in their lives that such brings, I have had them come to see me even a 4hr drive, because they were going to kill themselves and they love me and tell everyone how glad they are because I always cheer them up out of being so depressed.
I don't judge them but I point out that the Bible is correct and that it's Jesus Christ that is their Lord and Saviour and mans works are but only filthy rag.
So don't get caught up in such because such only leads to hopeless and misery and that's what the stupid church's everywhere nowadays are peddling full on even the Pope is getting away with pushing it.
Do you see the church numbers growing ? no !
Do you see people happy with their church ? no !
I wonder why, well I can tell you why, they have rejected Jesus Christ and only say lord lord.

Sorry for pointing out Jesus Christ to you but one needs His righteousness, not your self-righteous political correct socialist mans works dribble that only entice the fickle that never grow in the Lord Jesus but turn Christianity up side down no end.

You have tried to make this a one way street haven't you, is that not correct, where is the Grace in that by acting like a bully telling me to go like you do.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

@Heart2Soul

Thank you for that. You hit the nail. That is the kind of thing I am wrestling with. What is there end?

Probably , like when John asked Jesus about Peter. He would say
" What's that to you, follow thou Me."

I have two of them in my life, loosely.
One is a young man who is a son of a friend of the family. Because the son 40's lives in this city, my married daughter always asks him to come for the Christmas meal. So we see him every Christmas day...with which ever partner he happens to be with at the time.
We are more used to it now...but a few years ago it was very hard.
We knew this young man when we was a toddler.

The dilemma is , they don't stop being the same people when the 'come out'.
We knew him before, how can we un-know him?
The other person is now in his mid 50's and we led him to the Lord back when he was 12, ..he had three brothers who we also led to the Lord..plus the mother. They were a fine family once the over baring dominant father left.
So we have know them all closely since the early 70's.
The kids were the same age as my kids back then. We are all still great friends.
Yet the youngest, even back then would be know as "very sweet" spirited. Very kind and caring. It wasn't until my daughter and I went back to visit that we noticed much more with him. He and my daughter were about 26 then.
My daughter and I looked at each other afterwards and said " What about ---- what do you think?" And we agreed he had some feminine movements.
Very long story a wee bit shorter.
About 4 years ago we heard he had 'come out' ...not only that..he got legally 'married.'
It ripped me inside out. ( and it tore up the family too...as Christians they had no idea how to deal with it, or treat him)
He was always such a lovely boy, young man, and adult. Much nicer peron than many that I know.

Both these men I have written about were fine Christians before, and still very much in church now.

Wouldn't they be in inner turmoil?
Have they hardened the conscience ?
One part of me is saying " This is grace to the extreme"...the other part of me says- " shut up it is nothing to do with you...it's between them and God."

I honestly just don't know....much is just a mystery to me.

Anyone?
( except Reggie Belafonte who doesn't want to watch the video and didn't read the OP. )

I read the opening post.

So you say one peart of you says This is grace to the extreme ? no it's not at all do you understand the doctrine of Grace.

Boy as Christians they did not know how to treat him ? why would you treat him any differently he is still the same person you know. such only comes from shallow so called church goers who do not understand what Grace truly is.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I read the opening post.

So you say one peart of you says This is grace to the extreme ? no it's not at all do you understand the doctrine of Grace.

Boy as Christians they did not know how to treat him ? why would you treat him any differently he is still the same person you know. such only comes from shallow so called church goers who do not understand what Grace truly is.

The teachings of my church from the time I was a little child had me homophobic....I feared I would become one if they touched me...SMH....but when I found out about my friend and family being gay I didn't stop loving them...they were still my family...still my friend ....I did share with them that the Bible considers it a sin...but it considers a lot of things a sin as well....I always treat them the same as I did before....I do pray for them and I love them still the same.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

The teachings of my church from the time I was a little child had me homophobic....I feared I would become one if they touched me...SMH....but when I found out about my friend and family being gay I didn't stop loving them...they were still my family...still my friend ....I did share with them that the Bible considers it a sin...but it considers a lot of things a sin as well....I always treat them the same as I did before....I do pray for them and I love them still the same.

I knew of poofters when I was a little kid I can tell you all of plenty of story's I would go to the Pub with my dad and the bar man was one and his mate would be their as well at times, no one gave a toss about such people at all ever. they would just laugh about such.
The Bar man was called Jimmy 2 dollar and he would give people head jobs in the dunny for $2 back in 1970's mind, creepy but I never heard anyone try to kick him out of his job, and the publican was a woman.

 

[Truth]

Reminder of the OPENING POST.

Would love to interact, my online plan enables me to use to much live streaming, I live on a fixed income, so I will say love the sinner for God loved us in our sin's!

 

[Helen]

Would love to interact, my online plan enables me to use to much live streaming, I live on a fixed income, so I will say love the sinner for God loved us in our sin's!

Thank you. Amen.

But, if you have any wisdom on anything I have shared in my posts ....go for it. You've probably "got the gist of the video by reading all the posts here,
I'm open ...

 

[Triumph1300]

The world is being desensitized about this issue.
They say it's all about love, but if you ever watched a gay parade you will think it's all about lust.

 

[Jun2u]

All I can add is what Scripture declares:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteousness shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers on themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

[Helen]

The world is being desensitized about this issue.
They say it's all about love, but if you ever watched a gay parade you will think it's all about lust.

Do you remember back to when YOUR Former B.C. MP. Svend Robinson was spouting the odds?
Saying that he was going to get the age of consent down to age 12 for boys!!!

Saying ..."we will find your kids, in the schools, in gym clubs, in the boys clubs...where ever they are, we will find them. blah blah blah"

He was one evil SOB...I cannot say I "loved him"...he had a very aggressive agenda...I hated him ...and like many others, we also prayed hard to get him out of power. 30 years later, he is still "alive and well", mores the pity.
Many of them have very sadistic streaks...no indeed, it cannot all be about "loving them"....
As I have said a few times on here...I have a problem staying balanced...I still find myself swinging back and forth...I have nothing "cut and dried".
Nothing where I can have my neat little package tucked away, and able to say
"This is what I believe about the gay and lesbian issue. "
I resent using the word gay...they ( or whoever coined that word for them) have ruined a good meaningful word.

 

[Helen]

All I can add is what Scripture declares:

1 Corinthians 6:9-11
9 Know ye not that the unrighteousness shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers on themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Come on, is that the best you can do?
Did you read any of the posts here?

We all already KNOW the scriptures!!!
This discussion is going a bit deeper than that ,.... this is a real important "issue of our day" It not going away!!

Quoting scripture is not "a discussion".
How does that work for your family!

Oh well, like you said:- "All you can add is scripture. "

Okay.