For the anti-vax people here

[Deborah_]

We cant show proof that is peer reviewed because there is almost no data to show what this vaccine does (only the mechanism of action). You answered yourself lol. You shouldn’t feel obligated to inject something with no knowledge of the ramifications both short term and long-term. There is no long term study showing the safety of this vaccine, only a short term that shows people didnt die two weeks later. Obviously you can’t have proof it’s harmful if you haven’t had a study to determine if it’s safe

True - but how "long" does long-term have to be? 6 months? 2 years? 20 years?

It's no good waiting for a 20-year study if you catch Covid and die in the meantime. "Safety" is always a relative term in medicine, because all treatments (vaccines, drugs, surgical operations, blood transfusions) carry risks. The risks of intervention have to be balanced against the risks of not intervening. To me it's a no-brainer - the approved vaccines may not be 100% safe (nothing is), but they're safe enough for the vast majority of people to take if they want to. And everyone I know is keen to be vaccinated as soon as possible.

 

[Ziggy]

Key Updates for Week 3, ending January 23, 2021
Seasonal influenza activity in the United States remains lower than usual for this time of year. The first novel influenza A virus infection of the 2020-2021 season was reported this week.

Geographic Spread of Influenza as Assessed by State and Territorial Epidemiologists
The geographic spread of influenza as reported by state and territorial epidemiologists indicates geographic spread of influenza viruses but does not measure the severity of influenza activity. Due to the impact of COVID-19 on ILI surveillance, and the fact that the state and territorial epidemiologists report relies heavily on ILI activity, reporting for this system will be suspended for the 2020-21 influenza season. Data from previous seasons is available on FluView Interactive.

Frequently asked Question from 2019 - 2020:

When will flu activity begin and when will it peak?

The timing of flu is unpredictable and can vary in different parts of the country and from season to season. Seasonal flu viruses can be detected year-round; however, seasonal flu activity often begins as early as October and November and can continue to occur as late as May. Flu activity most commonly peaks in the United States between December and February.

So I guess we could say Covid cured the common flu.
Only 1 case so far as of Jan 23, 2021.
It's a miracle.

How many adults die from flu each year?
Flu deaths in adults are not nationally notifiable. In order to monitor influenza related deaths in all age groups, CDC tracks pneumonia and influenza (P&I)–attributed deaths through the National Center for Health Statistics (NCHS) Mortality Reporting System. This system tracks the proportion of death certificates processed that list pneumonia or influenza as the underlying or contributing cause of death. This system provides an overall indication of whether flu-associated deaths are elevated, but does not provide an exact number of how many people died from flu. As it does for the numbers of flu cases, doctor’s visits and hospitalizations, CDC also estimates deaths in the United States using mathematical modeling. CDC estimates that from 2010-2011 to 2017-2018, influenza-associated deaths in the United States ranged from a low of 12,000 (during 2011-2012) to a high of 79,000 (during 2017-2018). The model used to estimate flu-associated deaths uses a ratio of deaths-to-hospitalizations in order to estimate the total flu-related deaths during a season. For more information: How CDC Estimates Burden.

I haven't had the flu for many years, and I never had a flu vaccine.
If you take care of yourself and eat healthy, keep your immune system healthy,
eat REAL food instead of microwaved/fast food poo poo...
Just use old fashioned common sense

When did the 2017-2018 flu season peak?
During the 2017-2018 season, influenza-like-illness (ILI) activity began to increase in November, reaching an extended period of high activity during January and February nationally, and remained elevated through the end of March. ILI peaked at 7.5%, the highest percentage since the 2009 flu pandemic, which peaked at 7.7%. Influenza-like illness (ILI) was at or above the national baseline for 19 weeks, making the 2017-2018 season one of the longest in recent years.

Viruses
The percentage of respiratory specimens testing positive for influenza at clinical laboratories is 0.3% this week.

Facts Matter.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/#ClinicalLaboratories

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hello,


I can understand the hesitancy to get a vaccine since the swine flu vaccine in the 1970's did not turn out so well.

With that being said those of use that you are all trying to convince that the vaccine is a bad thing there are things we need. Those things are legitimate research papers that talk about the vaccine and how bad it could be.

So the rules for this thread (I hope the mods like @Josho and others can help keep this thread on track) is that we want (I hope it is okay to put we) real research, not blogs, opinions, or theories that can't be proven. What is accepted is peer reviewed papers from Scientific journals, white papers with both having good credentials. Remember this is not about opinions but real scientific proof. If it is as bad as you all say it is then to find real scientific research should be quite easy.

Once again - No blog posts, no theories, no videos, no opinions just pure scientific research that the vaccine is bad.

Your question makes two assumptions that are themselves unproven.
1. If any such paper were to be written, you assume it would be published and if published it would be available to the general public. In this climate of censorship and narrative control, this is doubtful.
2. You believe that scientific proof is the only kind.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Sad. So far, no research papers have been presented. No citations of research have been presented. Not a single piece of scientific evidence has been presented apart from the opening statement.

Already hijacked, so 'if you can't beat them, join them' in veering from the topic.

The vaccine will be effective, it is wise to get the vaccine if you want to increase the odds of preserving your life, and the scientific research supports this view.

Really? And all without citing a single scientific paper to support your assertion.

Are we quarantining international travelers?

Are you kidding? Where have you been? We are quarantining the entire population of the world.

If you want to understand those who distrust big pharma, just look around and ask questions like, "why do we quarantine the healthy?" Why don't we wear masks to protect us from the flu, the common cold, allergies, smoke from smokers? Can you smell smoke through your mask? How does a smoke particle compare to the size of a covid virus particle? Why is it okay to eat at a pubic restaurant without a mask? Why are the homeless still alive? Are scientists sinners?

So, although the science suggests we should receive the vaccine, please, do not attack people who choose not to receive the vaccine.

Unfortunately, some people interpret a warning as an attack.

vaccines are made by humans and are designed for the preservation of human life,

Or sometimes vacination programs are intended to collect DNA samples of a population. Think about it.

 

[JTH1234]

True - but how "long" does long-term have to be? 6 months? 2 years? 20 years?

It's no good waiting for a 20-year study if you catch Covid and die in the meantime. "Safety" is always a relative term in medicine, because all treatments (vaccines, drugs, surgical operations, blood transfusions) carry risks. The risks of intervention have to be balanced against the risks of not intervening. To me it's a no-brainer - the approved vaccines may not be 100% safe (nothing is), but they're safe enough for the vast majority of people to take if they want to. And everyone I know is keen to be vaccinated as soon as possible.

Not only just long term but there are almost no papers showing anything relevant. Show me the papers displaying antibodies to self antigens arent made? Show me complete blood counts? Show me how long the mRNA remains in the cell before degradation? Again, I will happily take the whole virus particle vaccine and even the protein subunit vaccine. If that is an issue with you, then you have an agenda to make me take the mRNA vaccine.

 

[Taken]

For the anti-vax people here
OP^

Big difference between Anti-Vax...and AND no vaccine choice.

 

[Gregory]

You are fre to start your own thread. Please do not hijack this thread, this thread is only for one thing

Your right, it is to show just the scientific facts. No opinion, or blogs from nobody scientist, etc., etc., etc. So where are your facts? And where are the facts for the anti-vaxxers? I am neutral, but you are not. Where are your scientific facts pro-vaxxer?

 

[CadyandZoe]

Your right, it is to show just the scientific facts. No opinion, or blogs from nobody scientist, etc., etc., etc. So where are your facts? And where are the facts for the anti-vaxxers? I am neutral, but you are not. Where are your scientific facts pro-vaxxer?

Who told you that scientific proof is the only valid type of proof?

 

[Gregory]

This may not be the best article, it's just the first one I've managed to track down:
Covid-19: Pfizer vaccine efficacy was 52% after first dose and 95% after second dose, paper shows
And the actual paper:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577?query=RP

Thank you for your diligence. From the first sentence of this report:
"The Pfizer and BioNTech covid-19 vaccine may provide some early protection, starting 12 days after the first dose, the peer reviewed results of a phase III trial have found."

Does not give me a high level of comfort. Lots of questions. And millions are being vaxinated. It is like we are all in a trial to see how many survive and how many are killed. So Thanks, but I'm probably not going to get this first vaccine from Pfizer. I will wait till there are more conventional, or at least, not mRNA types of vaccines.

 

[Enoch111]

I will wait till there are more conventional, or at least, not mRNA types of vaccines.

You will be waiting forever. The whole idea is to bamboozle the whole world into taking this mRNA into their bodies, if necessary by force (since all constitutional protections are virtually gone). Thus millions of doses are being churned out, and billions of dollars are being stolen from public coffers and salted away. Who would not want to take advantage of such a thorough scam? Even the Mafia, Hitler, and Stalin were not able to weaponize medicine in this fashion or come up with such a brilliant fraud.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Here in Australia the term "anti-vaxxer" is being used to belittle people that disagree with forcing vaccines...

So the anti-vaxxer wants to be able to choose the vaccine while the pro-vaxxer wants to force it on others...

So its the pro-vaxxer who has no moral standards...
And this coincides with the observations which I've been noting... The people following the pandemic are becoming increasingly colder...

 

[Cristo Rei]

But if anyone has any moral basis then there is no peer-reviewed evidence needed...

These vaccine makers are selling a product which they don't even know will provide immunity or stop transmission...
They are selling a product which they know will kill or disable some people...
Yet they promote it as being safe and effective...
Then to make it worse, they are exempt from any liability
Anyone that cannot see that this is immoral needs to reevaluate their morals
What other industry or product does this???

I have a truckload of cough medicine.
I don't know if it works.
I do know that there are one or two that have been accidentally poisoned but I don't know which ones.
Is it morally acceptable for me to still sell this cough medicine???
If it does cause harm is it morally acceptable that I walk away without any responsibility???

Selling these vaccines is immoral, criminal, unethical and unlawful

 

[Jay Ross]

I have a truckload of cough medicine.
I don't know if it works.
I do know that there are one or two that have been accidentally poisoned but I don't know which ones.
Is it morally acceptable for me to still sell this cough medicine???
If it does cause harm is it morally acceptable that I walk away without any responsibility???

Let us consider this example: -

I drive a truck on the roads.
I do not know what the road rules are so I drive as I please.
I do not know if I have "accidently killed" anyone by the way I drive without complying with the road rule guidelines.
Is it morally acceptable for me to still drive.
If my driving style causes harm to or kills others, is it morally acceptable if I walk away without any responsibility.

Can you complain about what other people are doing, when you are doing the very same things.

You are encouraging other people to reject the immunisation needle, even though you do not know what the outcome will be for the people who follow your lead. Will they catch the virus because they have not gain immunity because the have not had the injection(s) and subsequently die. Is that being morally responsible on your part.

Oh I see, firstly you can openly ridicule anyone and everybody for trying to save peoples lives, Secondly you can also violently oppose the people who are trying to save peoples lives through your posts, and Thirdly you believe that what you post is easily accepted as self evident.

Sadly you are not the only one on this forum, and nor are you and the others qualified to critique the evidence either for or against the use of what is being suggested.

Give us a brake from the rubbish that you are posting.

Shalom

 

[Enoch111]

Will they catch the virus because they have not gain immunity because the have not had the injection(s) and subsequently die. Is that being morally responsible on your part.

Since people are dying from these new vaccines, what is morally irresponsible is the way they have been hurriedly approved without proper testing.
Deaths after Pfizer vaccination at Spanish nursing home ...

Medical examiners investigate death of U.S. doctor who got ..

[URL='https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149']Covid-19: Norway investigates 23 deaths in frail elderly ...
[/URL]

 

[Jay Ross]

Since people are dying from these new vaccines, what is morally irresponsible is the way they have been hurriedly approved without proper testing.
Deaths after Pfizer vaccination at Spanish nursing home ...

Medical examiners investigate death of U.S. doctor who got ..
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...u-s-doctor-who-got-covid-19-vaccine-1.5256887
Covid-19: Norway investigates 23 deaths in frail elderly ...
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...u-s-doctor-who-got-covid-19-vaccine-1.5256887

Enoch111 you may have a valid point, but how many people have to die while we wait for a vaccine that will prevent us from dying from the Covid19 virus.

What is the morality of waiting until all of the boxes have been ticked, before we allow the use of a vaccine.

What is the morality of allowing everybody to catch the virus in the hope that not to many people will die as a result of this strategy.

What is the morality of establishing measures that will reduce the transmission of the virus in our community.

There are so many morality question that we can ask concerning our lifestyle decisions, but we blindly ignore those question because of our desire to "exercise our free choices" irrespective of the consequences of the choices that we make.

So often we all make the wrong morality choices in life.

 

[amigo de christo]

Since people are dying from these new vaccines, what is morally irresponsible is the way they have been hurriedly approved without proper testing.
Deaths after Pfizer vaccination at Spanish nursing home ...

Medical examiners investigate death of U.S. doctor who got ..
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...u-s-doctor-who-got-covid-19-vaccine-1.5256887
Covid-19: Norway investigates 23 deaths in frail elderly ...
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...u-s-doctor-who-got-covid-19-vaccine-1.5256887

Just wait till they come in contact with the actual corona virus .
You should have seen what this type of trials was doing to animals . It was not the covid , but it was the mrna
They never even tested this one on animals .
But anyway in the animal testing of this the animals did great , great antibodies and etc .
But here is the kicker .
they had a placebo group of animals as well .
They infected the animals later with the virus . GUESS what group did worse . You got it the vaccinated ones did .
Immune systems went into overdrive and made them either sicker or outright killed them .
AND it was much higher in the vaccinated group . Just wait . Remember when i said i was not taking it
many will wish they had not as well . But no worries the news will just say its a new stronger mutated version that is killing them
or making them sicker . They got this all in the wraps my friend . People trust govt way too much . WE should simply TRUST GOD .

 

[Enoch111]

Enoch111 you may have a valid point, but how many people have to die while we wait for a vaccine that will prevent us from dying from the Covid19 virus.

Everyone should read this open letter by a group of professionals before talking about the bogus vaccines. The only problem is that the FBI and DOJ are a part of the lockdown conspiracy. Therefore this should have been a call for an INDEPENDENT INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATION. I have been saying this over and over again since January 2020.

The Chinese Communist Party’s
Global Lockdown Fraud
Request for expedited federal investigation into scientific fraud in COVID‑19 public health policies

To:
Federal Bureau of Investigation
935 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, D.C. 20535

CC:
U.K. Security Service (MI5);
Australian Security Intelligence Organisation;
Canadian Security Intelligence Service;
Bundesnachrichtendienst;
U.S. Department of Justice

From:
Michael P. Senger, Attorney
Stacey A. Rudin, Attorney
Dr. Clare Craig, FRCPath
Retired Brig. Gen. Robert Spalding
Randy Hillier, MPP Lanark, Frontenac & Kingston
Francis Hoar, Barrister at Law
Sanjeev Sabhlok, PhD
Brian O’Shea
Maajid Nawaz
Simon Dolan

This open letter is available for download in PDF format at Scribd.

 

[Cristo Rei]

Let us consider this example: -

I drive a truck on the roads.
I do not know what the road rules are so I drive as I please.
I do not know if I have "accidently killed" anyone by the way I drive without complying with the road rule guidelines.
Is it morally acceptable for me to still drive.
If my driving style causes harm to or kills others, is it morally acceptable if I walk away without any responsibility.

This example only supports what I'm saying...
The person should not be driving on the road just like the vaccine shouldn't be getting distributed...

Except if the driver doesn't know he's a bad driver then it's not an immoral act at all... Pharma knows of the risks and still sells them

So... Try again to find an example of such an immoral practice... You won't find it in any industry at all...

You are encouraging other people to reject the immunisation needle, even though you do not know what the outcome will be for the people who follow your lead. Will they catch the virus because they have not gain immunity because the have not had the injection(s) and subsequently die. Is that being morally responsible on your part.

Im not encouraging people to do anything, I'm only speaking for myself. I don't want to be forced vaxxed, simple as that...
And this veil of secrecy along with contradictions doesn't invoke confidence and trust

Can you complain about what other people are doing, when you are doing the very same things.

Im not selling a dangerous product

Are you being morally responsible with the "garbage" that you are posting.

You are _________ self delusional in what you post. Sadly you are not the only one on this forum, and nor are you and the others qualified to critique the evidence either for or against the use of what is being suggested.

Give us a brake from the rubbish that you are posting.

Remember what I said about putting my faith in science??? How I was misled by the theory of evolution and the big bang...
So then... Can't u understand my skepticism? Can't u understand my inability to trust scientific theories?
Critical thinking brought me back to God and critical thinking keeps me with God. So yes, I will criticize politicians and scientists and such

You acknowledge that I'm not the only one who is suspicious of this whole pandemic...
Then why are you so hostile towards me? Are you this hostile to everyone else with who u disagree with?

Have u stopped to consider the possibility that you may be wrong? Have u evaluated your view? How?

Were able to explain your view on the twin towers without many insults. Can't u do the same here?

Please don't respond with such belligerence. We don't agree, fine, but u don't need to be like that. It doesn't help your argument at all. Its an ad hominem logical fallacy and a red flag of pseudoscience.

Im not being rude to you so I would appreciate the same courtesy.

 

[Jay Ross]

This example only supports what I'm saying...
The person should not be driving on the road just like the vaccine shouldn't be getting distributed...

Except if the driver doesn't know he's a bad driver then it's not an immoral act at all... Pharma knows of the risks and still sells them

So... Try again to find an example of such an immoral practice... You won't find it in any industry at all...



Im not encouraging people to do anything, I'm only speaking for myself. I don't want to be forced vaxxed, simple as that...
And this veil of secrecy along with contradictions doesn't invoke confidence and trust



Im not selling a dangerous product




Remember what I said about putting my faith in science??? How I was misled by the theory of evolution and the big bang...
So then... Can't u understand my skepticism? Can't u understand my inability to trust scientific theories?
Critical thinking brought me back to God and critical thinking keeps me with God. So yes, I will criticize politicians and scientists and such

You acknowledge that I'm not the only one who is suspicious of this whole pandemic...
Then why are you so hostile towards me? Are you this hostile to everyone else with who u disagree with?

Have u stopped to consider the possibility that you may be wrong? Have u evaluated your view? How?

And please don't respond with such belligerence. We don't agree, fine, but u don't need to be like that. peoples inability to hold a civilized conversation on this topic is a huge red flag, it doesn't help your argument at all, in fact, it diminishes it.
Im not being rude to you so I would appreciate the same courtesy.

You see, you are still doing the same things as the Pharma people are doing. They believe that they are not harming people as well.

If a truck driver does not know how to drive a truck then he should not be doing so because the government assessors would not give him a licence to drive. The truck was your example and all I did was turn it back on you.

Your continual vitriol against the rightfully elected Government in your state is getting very thin for other members on this forum and I am sure that many look at who is posting and on seeing your name at the top of your posts simply ignore what you are posting.

What you are posting is not a good look for this forum. Know what I mean?

People are able to work out for themselves without your vitriol what is best for them to do. They are smarter than your think they are. Honey attracts more bees to the honey pot rather than the "garbage" that you are posting. It tends to put people off except those who are diseased like you with their own vitriol spleen symptoms .

Shalom

PS: - Note that I am not responding with the same belligerence as you. I could but I am choosing not to be like you

 

[amigo de christo]

They could mail me this vaccine and all i would do is flush it down the comode .
Folks ya better watch out .
When folks start getting sicker and dying , oh no worries the propoganda machine will just say its a new version .
Folks should have done their research , instead they trusted in the news .