For the anti-vax people here

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Gregory

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Hello,


I can understand the hesitancy to get a vaccine since the swine flu vaccine in the 1970's did not turn out so well.

With that being said those of use that you are all trying to convince that the vaccine is a bad thing there are things we need. Those things are legitimate research papers that talk about the vaccine and how bad it could be.

So the rules for this thread (I hope the mods like @Josho and others can help keep this thread on track) is that we want (I hope it is okay to put we) real research, not blogs, opinions, or theories that can't be proven. What is accepted is peer reviewed papers from Scientific journals, white papers with both having good credentials. Remember this is not about opinions but real scientific proof. If it is as bad as you all say it is then to find real scientific research should be quite easy.

Once again - No blog posts, no theories, no videos, no opinions just pure scientific research that the vaccine is bad.
OK, this is a good start at a good thread.

The only thing it lacks is a peer reviewed scientific journal article from the pro-vaxxer's side. We want to see that article. We also want to see the data that is being compiled on the results of millions of people taking the vaccine. Do you have any data now?

Once again, where is the pro-vaxxer's peer reviewed scientific article from a well known scientific publisher. Remember no blog posts, no thories, no videos, no opinions, just pure scientific research that the vaccine is good.

That would be helpful to get things started right. Thank you
 

Deborah_

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OK, this is a good start at a good thread.

The only thing it lacks is a peer reviewed scientific journal article from the pro-vaxxer's side. We want to see that article. We also want to see the data that is being compiled on the results of millions of people taking the vaccine. Do you have any data now?

Once again, where is the pro-vaxxer's peer reviewed scientific article from a well known scientific publisher. Remember no blog posts, no thories, no videos, no opinions, just pure scientific research that the vaccine is good.

That would be helpful to get things started right. Thank you

This may not be the best article, it's just the first one I've managed to track down:
Covid-19: Pfizer vaccine efficacy was 52% after first dose and 95% after second dose, paper shows
And the actual paper:
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577?query=RP
 
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historyb

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From your opening statement I think that I understand what you are asking. But if I am off target a little bit...do not curse me...lol
You are wanting hard evidence that the vaccine is bad or not.

Your right of course. There is to much passion in any topic on this broad about anything. Say the sky is blue and there will be posters who will argue it's pink. I wish we could divorce emotions and look at things logically without any passion, oh how I wish we could be like the Vulcans of Star Trek and throw off emotions.

I am coming to realize that no evidence will be ever produced. I do believe I will endeavor to have my thread closed, the only logical thing to do at this point.
 

historyb

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Can you imagine what would happen within the threads if everyone considered whether their words / choices are going to offend anyone , and held back and thought about it. Wow , that would be an impressive change on CB

A dream to be sure. I am not even capable of that right now many times.

Emotions are the problem. Getting rid or suppressing emotions is the answer
 

historyb

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Wait, shouldn’t this be the other way around lol. You’re telling me to inject something that has never been used in humans on a wide scale. Shouldn’t you be showing me papers that display the vaccines safety and effectiveness?

Absolutely not. I am asking for proof of a position, logical scientific proof. It seems anti-vax can provide, nor seem capable of providing any rational logical proof of anything doing with the vaccine being bad.
 

historyb

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OK, this is a good start at a good thread.

The only thing it lacks is a peer reviewed scientific journal article from the pro-vaxxer's side. We want to see that article. We also want to see the data that is being compiled on the results of millions of people taking the vaccine. Do you have any data now?

Once again, where is the pro-vaxxer's peer reviewed scientific article from a well known scientific publisher. Remember no blog posts, no thories, no videos, no opinions, just pure scientific research that the vaccine is good.

That would be helpful to get things started right. Thank you

You are fre to start your own thread. Please do not hijack this thread, this thread is only for one thing
 

Enoch111

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It seems anti-vax can provide, nor seem capable of providing any rational logical proof of anything doing with the vaccine being bad.
It looks like you are the one who is running away from facts and proof my friend. There is a whole group of medical doctors who have done their research but you are simply ignoring them. Have you bothered to read this white paper?

America’s Frontline Doctors White Paper On Experimental Vaccines For COVID-19
 
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historyb

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It looks like you are the one who is running away from facts and proof my friend. There is a whole group of medical doctors who have done their research but you are simply ignoring them. Have you bothered to read this white paper?

America’s Frontline Doctors White Paper On Experimental Vaccines For COVID-19

No I am not. So far there has been no logical proof shown, just a lot of emotionalism and biased view. Show some real proof that is peer reviewed but that is asking to much from you all, it's as if all you can do is be emotional without any logic. Everything you people show is not up with anything current times.
 

Cristo Rei

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bandicam 2021-02-04 10-06-04-512.jpg

Link to the source
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(20)30453-7/fulltext

Yet people will still continue to support these actions from our governments.
Actions that are immoral, unethical, unlawful and criminal.



Total deaths as reported by the CDC show that there is no such pandemic, only propaganda.
bandicam 2020-12-18 08-49-04-136 - Copy (2).jpg

But I'm interestingly observing this new phenomenon now...
I had the "if u can't beat em, join em" theory for people that have supported covid from the start.

Now I'm seeing people that once opposed covid have just become brainwashed and fallen into dissonance, changing their point of view...
This is even more mind-boggling... They know they've been decided but instead of attacking them they turn and attack the very same people that held their very same views...

Ironic how a person that changed their mind will then attack those that haven't
 
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ThePuffyBlob

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it's not about the 1970 if you are pointing to the world because it's all happening in all corners of the world even the doctors are not convinced that the hurried vaccines are safe so how can we be a lot of specialist in my country already decided not to be included in the vaccination in some news only 35% agreed out of 1.5k people scheduled

so it's not just america it's also happening in other countries
just saying i'm not here to debate because i know nothing but i know this much
 

JTH1234

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Absolutely not. I am asking for proof of a position, logical scientific proof. It seems anti-vax can provide, nor seem capable of providing any rational logical proof of anything doing with the vaccine being bad.
The vaccine is bad because you haven't shown me it is good, and it is literally entering my body and bloodstream where it can do literally anything to me if I don't have papers showing what it does. Your thinking is backwards here. You can't expect the world to take an injection until you show me what it does to me. Sorry, but again, I decline your mRNA. I will take the whole virus particle vaccines (like we have always used for viruses such as the flu) that are coming soon and are 90% effective or better. If that is a concern with you, then you have an agenda of making me take mRNA which is worse than my agenda of telling you that these mRNA vaccines should be questioned until a significant amount of papers on their affects on humans are published.
 

JTH1234

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No I am not. So far there has been no logical proof shown, just a lot of emotionalism and biased view. Show some real proof that is peer reviewed but that is asking to much from you all, it's as if all you can do is be emotional without any logic. Everything you people show is not up with anything current times.
We cant show proof that is peer reviewed because there is almost no data to show what this vaccine does (only the mechanism of action). You answered yourself lol. You shouldn’t feel obligated to inject something with no knowledge of the ramifications both short term and long-term. There is no long term study showing the safety of this vaccine, only a short term that shows people didnt die two weeks later. Obviously you can’t have proof it’s harmful if you haven’t had a study to determine if it’s safe
 

Heart2Soul

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Only if they choose to get the vaccine, so if they opt out they can state it, or do you think it would be wrong either way ?
Personally if someone wasn’t getting the vaccine it wouldn’t offend me in the least , but equally if someone chose to that wouldn’t offend me either. It’s a free will choice.
Can you imagine what would happen within the threads if everyone considered whether their words / choices are going to offend anyone , and held back and thought about it. Wow , that would be an impressive change on CB
Rita
I think my comment was specifically directed at the post I responded to....I agree we should consider how we respond and what are we accomplishing with the response.
God Bless
 
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teamventure

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Don't you yet know that real pure scientific research is purposely being misconstrued, so that no one can possess factual evidence against "big pharma" for suit?

Instead, you might want to think about prophetic scripture, and then reconsider "who is (W.H.O.)" of the UN, and in all actuality "who" IT IS that is behind it!!
For that you might need a little bit of history, going back much further than the Roman Empire.
Lucifer, aka Satan said:
"Isa. 14 [ 14 ] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High."

Jesus said in the book of Revelation:
"Rev. 2 [ 13 ] I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth."
From there, if you believe in Jesus, you should agree that He is telling us factual information.

Satan is a created spirit by God.
God is the Creator Spirit.
God is love.
God is good.
God is merciful.
God is forgiving.
God is patient.
God is longsuffering.
God is just.

Satan desires to be like God.
Since he is a created spirit, only in that way, is satan like God.
Except for his self serving benevolence towards man, satan has none of the characteristics of God. Mat. 16:23
"... for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those [things] that be of men.

God is omnipresent. Satan is not.
He can only be in one place at one time.
No human being knows where satan is located, except God. However, he does use men, and speaks through them, as he did through Peter, before Peter received the Holy Spirit.

Even now, God is knowledgeable of where satan's seat of authority is, even though men do not know!!
However, the Spirit of God does reveal it to His people, as He did in Rev., through the location of the martyr Antipas in that time. Antipas was martyred in Pergamos.
Is satan's seat still hiding there today, or has he relocated? Follow what is being said here, and you will find out.

We can gather some history of what the city of Pergamos was all about.
I quote from the reference listed below:
"So what was noticeable in Pergamos, that indicates that Satan had his dwelling and throne there, or that he was especially present and powerful there?

Pergamos served many idols, such as Zeus, Dionysius, Athene and others. It had many temples and altars. But this did not mark it out as Satan’s throne because all the pagan cities in the Roman empire at that time worshipped idols, including the other cities mentioned in Revelation 2-3 .

It was the prominence of its worship of Aesculapius or Asclepius as saviour, healer and preserver that made Pergamos distinctive in this regard. Asclepius was a god of healing and health. He had an impressive temple, the ruins of which can be visited in Pergamos today. People used to sleep in that temple with the idea that Asclepius would give them a dream which would be interpreted by his priest telling them how to be healed. The spring beside the temple was said to possess healing powers. Devotees would offer sacrifices or leave gifts for healing. Small terracotta body parts to represent the injured area or limb have been found near Asclepius’ temple in Pergamos. Small wonder that Pergamos has been called the Lourdes of the ancient world.

One animal is especially associated with Asclepius: the snake. Asclepius’ symbol is a serpent-entwined staff (still used in the medical world today). At the dedication of temples to Asclepius, snakes would be encouraged to enter the building. Doubtless, such a ceremony took place in Pergamos too. In honour of Asclepius, a particular type of non-venomous snake was often used in healing rituals. These were called “Asclepian snakes.” They slithered around freely on the floor in dormitories where the sick and injured slept.

What is the Christian analysis of all this? This is devil worship through a false god, Asclepius, symbolized by a snake. In Revelation 12:9 , “the great dragon” or “the Devil” or “Satan, which deceiveth the whole world” is also called “that old serpent.” This is a reference to the devil’s use of a snake in Genesis 3 to tempt Eve to eat the forbidden fruit. Whereas death and disease came through the devil using a snake, the worshippers of Asclepius ascribed healing and preservation to the serpent. How perverse! How demonic, how Satanic!"
by
Rev. Angus Stewart.


Pergamos: A Church Dwelling Where Satan’s Throne Is (1)

So then, where today is the symbol of the serpent-entwined staff being used today?

2BCont'd-

Thank you for that. Fascinating and insightful.
 
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teamventure

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We cant show proof that is peer reviewed because there is almost no data to show what this vaccine does (only the mechanism of action). You answered yourself lol. You shouldn’t feel obligated to inject something with no knowledge of the ramifications both short term and long-term. There is no long term study showing the safety of this vaccine, only a short term that shows people didnt die two weeks later. Obviously you can’t have proof it’s harmful if you haven’t had a study to determine if it’s safe

Well said, the burden of proof is on the pro-vaccers
 
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