Forgiveness can only be for Past Sinning.

[robert derrick]

Reason alone says that no one can be forgiven for something not done, nor is being done at present. No harm, no foul.

The only things we can be forgiven of rightly, is what was done by us to God and/or man.

Scripture teaches such common sense, that only a sin committed against God or man, needs and can be forgiven, by God or man.

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. (Rom 3:25)

1. Remission is forgiveness of sins that are past, which is only past sinning: sin that has been committed in the past, whether a moment ago or anytime before.

The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. (Nahum 1:3)

2. This Scripture applies to present sinning, Which is by them who are doing evil and are presently wicked in sight of God. God does not at all acquit, forgive, remit the guilty while sinning against Himself.

A moment ago, yes, but not while doing so.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1)

The Scripture says two things: if we are now confessing our sins (homologomen), then He will forgive our sinning.

The confession is present time only, not future, and so forgiveness can only be for the present, not the future.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

3. Confession is godly sorrow to repent, and so forgiveness is only for sins being confessed from the heart to repent of.

This excludes any present sinning still going on with the devil at any time.

Not a moment ago, nor any time before, and certainly not yet committed in future.

Only past sinning can be forgiven by God, which is only when the sinning is being confessed with godly sorrow to repent thereof.

No wicked person while sinning with the devil, can possibly be acquitted and forgiven by Jesus Christ.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

I admire your passion.

 

[Behold]

Reason alone says that no one can be forgiven for something not done,

Reason plays no part in Real Faith.
Reason is the role of the Mind, and that is not faith.
Here is a reality, regarding the day anyone is born again.
On that day, all your sin, is forgiven.
And on that day, God knows of all the sin you will commit, the next week, the next month, and the next years.

Notice. He saves you anyway, KNOWING of all the future sin you will commit, after He saves you that day.
Why would He do that?
Its because the blood of God, shed, as the Death of Christ, has POWER to REDEEM the entire WORLD, and this same power that is the Blood of Jesus, takes care of all of a believer's sin.
All of it.

And when did it take care of it?
It took care of it 2000 Yrs ago... So, 2000 yrs later, the Cross of Christ, This BLOOD OF JESUS, SAVED US.
See that?
That is Salvation, that is continuing to SAVE PEOPLE 2000 yrs later.
And it will keep everyone saved, that its has redeemed.

 

[robert derrick]

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1)

Scripture speaks here of presently confessing sinning.

This says three things:

1. While we are in the act of confessing a sin with godly sorrow, so soon as the words are gone forth, Jesus is now forgiving the sin.

Not before, and not later, but now.

2. Trusting Jesus for forgiveness of sin, is trusting we are now forgiven for sinning, even while we are confessing sin unto repentance.

Unbelief is to go on allowing the devil to accuse us being unforgiven, for confessed sinning of the past.

Faith from the heart of confession says, I am now forgiven of that past sin by God for His Son's sake.

3. Confession is not while sinning goes on. We are not confessing with godly sorrow to repent, while still committing the sin with the devil.

Confession unto forgiveness can only be with the sinning stopped. The only sinning that can be confessed unto forgiveness is past, including up to a moment ago.

If we are drawn to confession by the Spirit of His grace, we ought to confess heartily now, and not wait until we can forgive ourselves first.

But no sinning going on now, is forgiven nor acquitted by God, because any such 'admission' is mocking God to His face.

 

[robert derrick]

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

This Scripture shows that it is not possible for God to forgive any person, while still sinning with the devil, even if they are also 'confessing' it with their lips.

We cannot be forgiven in the commission of sinning, and then go on to finish the sin, because it is when sin is finished, that the sinning soul then dies.

One can think he is forgiven beforehand, but when he finishes that sin, he is certain dead to God, and unforgiven.

We can confess in the midst of sinning to repent and cease, and be forgiven immediately by Jesus Christ.

But it is mockery of God to 'admit' we are sinning with the devil, and then claim forgiveness while going on to finish it.

God does not acquit the wage of sin, which is death, but only forgives the sin that is ceased and confessed with godly sorrow.

 

[Behold]

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1).

If you're not born again, you can confess your sin, and your faith in Christ, and God will forgive your sin and save you.

But if you are born again, then God is in you, and you are become "made righteous" and exist as "the righteousness of God in Christ".

There is a cult teaching that says, you sin and are lost again, and you confess and are saved again.
For that to be true, Jesus would have to die on the Cross again.

There is another cult teaching that teaches..>>"you are saved, but to stay saved, you have to confess your sin".
This can't be true, as Romans 4:8 says that God does not charge sin to the born again.
Also, Christ has become the sin of the born again, and the born again have become Christ's Righteousness.

Confessing sin, the only thing it does, is it makes you feel better, until you do it again.
So, doing that, is not keeping you saved, and its not causing God to re-save you.
All it does is help you deal with your guilt trip, and condemnation.

 

[robert derrick]

Reason is the carnal mind, and that is your problem, and that explains why you can't understand the Grace of God.

I have reported you for a personal accusation, which has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

I am currently in contact with moderators about clear rules on the Bible Study forum. If you want to make personal attacks, then do so in private, or take it to the debate forum.

You are more than free to ask me to clarify anything, or just teach what you believe, as I have done.

Thanks.

 

[Behold]

Consider...

Salvation is Christ on the Cross, ... John 3:16.

Its not anything else., and its never anything you do to try to stay saved.

So, "confessing sin", is you doing something.
That is not Salvation.
Salvation is not The Cross + you confessing sin later.

So, if you believe that you have to confess sin, as a part of Salvation, then you are not trusting in Christ ALONE to keep you saved, and to not trust in Christ ALONE is to not trust in Christ at all.

 

[Behold]

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

This Scripture shows that it is not possible for God to forgive any person, while still sinning with the devil, even if they are also 'confessing' it with their lips.
.

The NT teaches that Jesus came to "save sinners'.
So, what are sinners doing?

Scripture teaches, that God Justifies "the UNGODLY"....
So, what are the ungodly doing?

 

[robert derrick]

Reason plays no part in Real Faith.
Reason is the role of the Mind, and that is not faith.
Reason is the carnal mind,

Fair point. Scripture agrees with it in part.

Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread? (Nehemiah)

I clarified such reason as being common sense, which is the light of intelligence that Christ lightens every person coming into the world.

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

The only living creatures on earth, that can reason with the mind, is man and woman, and it is the gift of Christ, that can be made a curse of natural man, even as with Lucifer, but is not a curse in itself:

Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables.

Peter was speaking from the voice of reason, not needing prior Scripture to confirm it, but it became confirmed by Scripture as entirely reasonable thinking on the part of man.

I then went on to show how Scripture does in fact prove the reasoning I gave, as being common sense to any man or woman on earth:

So they read in the book in the law of God distinctly, and gave the sense, and caused them to understand the reading.

It makes no sense by any manner of reasoning, which is confirmed by doctrine of Christ in Scripture, that anyone can possibly be forgiven of anything not done, especially not yet done.

 

[robert derrick]

If you're not born again, you can confess your sin, and your faith in Christ, and God will forgive your sin and save you.

But if you are born again, then God is in you, and you are become "made righteous" and exist as "the righteousness of God in Christ".

There is a cult teaching that says, you sin and are lost again, and you confess and are saved again.
For that to be true, Jesus would have to die on the Cross again.

There is another cult teaching that teaches..>>"you are saved, but to stay saved, you have to confess your sin".
This can't be true, as Romans 4:8 says that God does not charge sin to the born again.
Also, Christ has become the sin of the born again, and the born again have become Christ's Righteousness.

Confessing sin, the only thing it does, is it makes you feel better, until you do it again.
So, doing that, is not keeping you saved, and its not causing God to re-save you.
All it does is help you deal with your guilt trip, and condemnation.

You are free to post your own opposing teaching here, especially when it is about the subject matter.

But please don't do so as in a 'reply' to me personally, when you do not address any specific point I make.

Thanks.

 

[Behold]

It makes no sense by any manner of reasoning, which is confirmed by doctrine of Christ in Scripture, that anyone can possibly be forgiven of anything not done, especially not yet done.

The Blood Atonement, is an eternal sacrifice.
Eternal life is given to a believer when they are born again., even tho God knows what they will do later, that will not effect being born again.
He knows this, but most believers do not.

Let me take you into the real understanding of what 2nd Adam does for the Believer.
Its this....The born again Spirit exists as sinless, because it exists in Spiritual Union with God, and there is no sin found there.
There is no LAW or Commandments found there... and that is where the Spirit, redeemed, as a Son/Daughter of God, exist., already.

Notice this verse.

"As Jesus is, so are the born again, IN THIS WORLD".

See that?
That's not a sinner needing to confess.
That is an established Son/Daughter of God, who has become a "child of the Light".

The born again, are not their body, as it is dead because of sin, and will rot into the earth.
The mind, is not born again, and it has to be renewed so that it exists in the correct understanding of being "made righteous", Spiritually.
If a believer does not "renew your mind" then the mind exists as carnal, and that is "human reasoning", that can't discern spiritually.

BORN AGAIN..... is the "son" of God who is become "in Christ", as "the righteousness of God in Christ".

 

[robert derrick]

You have confirmed this thread, as well as another thread on OFAF Rosary, and another thread on why OFAF is taught. Thanks much.

If you're not born again, you can confess your sin, and your faith in Christ, and God will forgive your sin and save you.

I agree, only the unsaved sinner is in need of confession made unto repentance and salvation, which is the same for any man that is sinning with the devil.

OFAF proselytes are forbidden to confess sinning with godly sorrow to repent and be forgiven. Which is result of teaching OFAF.

But if you are born again, then God is in you, and you are become "made righteous" and exist as "the righteousness of God in Christ".

The righteous need not confess any sinning, since they are not doing so, nor has tomorrow come for them to do so.

The only righteousness of someone sinning for the devil, exists in their own mind. 'Exist' is carnal speak for some spiritual 'existence' apart from the deeds of the body on earth.

I do not believe OFAF, nor OSAS: If I sin against God in spirit or in flesh, I must humble myself and confess my sin from the heart to repent, and be forgiven and saved from sinning.

The word 'again' does not apply, since if we do sin against God, then none of our righteousness and forgiveness of the past is remembered. To God, it's always now receiving one from the dead, which is the same for all sinners now confessing to Jesus:

For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

There is a cult teaching that says, you sin and are lost again, and you confess and are saved again.
For that to be true, Jesus would have to die on the Cross again.

Yes, I am in that cult wholeheartedly. No man while sinning with the devil against God, is forgiven and being saved by Jesus Christ. If I sin in such a manner, then I must repent and confess with godly sorrow, like any other sinner in such manner.

Neither my God nor I am a respecter of persons.

There is another cult teaching that teaches..>>"you are saved, but to stay saved, you have to confess your sin".

True again. Though I am now being saved and not sinning, if I do sin against Jesus, whether in spirit or in flesh, then I must confess that sin with godly sorrow unto Him, So that God will forgive and save me from my past sinning.

Only then is any forgiven soul free to go on and sin nor more with a clear conscience and thankfulness for mercy.

The Christian sect I am in, is thankful for mercy of being forgiven by confession with godly sorrow. OFAF celebrates not being judged while sinning.

[

T
This can't be true, as Romans 4:8 says that God does not charge sin to the born again.

Because no son of God is sinning while born of God, even as the Son was not on earth.

It is impossible to be both a son of God and a child of the devil at the same time.

He that is sinning is of the devil...Whosoever is born of God is not committing sin; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot be sinning, because he is born of God. (1 John 3)

OFAF teaches being preforgiven of all sinning, especially while doing so. It also teaches a God with respect of persons, who does not acquit the wicked, unless that wicked one is naming the name of Jesus.

Confessing sin, the only thing it does, is it makes you feel better, until you do it again.
All it does is help you deal with your guilt trip, and condemnation.

True. Thank you for confirming the point of the thread. With OFAF, confession of sinning is become a Rosary prayer only with the lips, and has no godly sorrow with it.

In fact, to confess any sinning for forgiveness is denounced as heresy.

Only sinner sinners are allowed to confess sinning to Jesus with godly sorrow, not OFAF sinning sinners.

So, "confessing sin", is you doing something..

Exactly, which is why OFAF is taught, in order to avoid the Scripture of needing confession to repent, in order to be forgiven and saved.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

John is speaking of himself in the present tense. Not of having done so once for all before.

Man is saved only by forgiveness, which is by confession, which is of any sinning done on earth at any time.

Salvation is not The Cross + you confessing sin later.

+ Later may be too late. Only now is the time to confess and be forgiven of sinning.

And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So, if you believe that you have to confess sin, as a part of Salvation, then you are not trusting in Christ ALONE to keep you saved,

True. We must do our part to be forgiven and saved by Jesus: Repent, believe the gospel, and confess any sinning with godly sorrow from the heart to be forgiven and saved.

We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

We don't do our part to keep ourselves in Christ, we will have no part in the resurrection of His body:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Those who teach letters of Scripture mean nothing to them, but what their own faith in their own minds, then they of course have no trust in Scripture to believe and keep it.

and to not trust in Christ ALONE is to not trust in Christ at all.

True, not trusting in Christ alone to forgive sins by confession from the heart, is not trusting Christ at all.

Neither we ourselves, nor Buddha, nor Allah, nor Moses can forgive sins.

OFAF preaches trusting in one's own dead faith alone, to be forgiven of sinning with the devil against God, while naming the name of Christ.

 

[ScottA]

By definition, the "past" is everything before the End.

The End is the End, and the End has a name. His name is Jesus. Anyone who is in Him and He in them, has come to the End. As the scriptures say, it is no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them.

​

 

[robert derrick]

By definition, the "past" is everything before the End.

The End is the End, and the End has a name. His name is Jesus. Anyone who is in Him and He in them, has come to the End. As the scriptures say, it is no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them.

​

Aww, I guess I must confess I have missed the mystery-speak. And even better, pithily.

The past in our lives is everything in the past, whether a moment or a thousand, whether in the Lord or not.

And justification and salvation is only about now, not the past, nor tomorrow that may not come.

Only our past sinning can be forgiven by the Lord today, if we confess with godly sorrow now. And so soon as we do confess to repent, we are forgiven now, not before, not later.

While in this mortal flesh, we remain in this world real time. Not in some mystical resurrection ascendence into spiritual time without body.

By definition, the "past" is everything before the End.

The End is the End, and the End has a name. His name is Jesus. Anyone who is in Him and He in them, has come to the End. As the scriptures say, it is no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them.

​

Jesus is the end of sinning for the righteous and the unrighteous, for them doing the law outwardly and for them transgressing the law. The former is spiritually cleansed within, and the latter to is saved from outward disobedience by inward faith: both become the one and the same in Christ, with the middle wall of partition taken away, The Jewish law doer and the Gentile lawless become spiritually clean within and outwardly sanctified in the flesh by the law of Christ, not of Moses.

There is no spiritual purity within, while there is only obedience in the letter, and certainly not while there is transgression against the letter.

While we are with Jesus, we are wholly sanctified in Him, doing the righteousness of the law by spiritual purity within, and outward cleansing of the flesh according to the law.

As the scriptures say, it is no longer they who live, but Christ who lives in them.

Scripture does not say that we no longer live. We certainly do continue to live in the flesh, and in Christ we are now also alive to God.

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

It is certainly we who live, but the new life we live is no more our own past life dead in sins, but is now the new one of righteousness and true holiness, by Christ that now live in us.

This dead mortal body stuff, taking all the blame for sinning, is complete delusion. The old man of sin is the old life of sinning that the saint no longer lives, but is crucified on our own cross. We lose our own old life of sin, that we may now live new in Him. Any body sinning today is not alive in Christ today.

The body of the old man is not the flesh, but is the old body of life lived in the flesh.

Any sinning in the spirit and in the flesh is still by the soul, and the soul is always responsible for it, and judged dead and separated from God because of it.

 

[ScottA]

Aww, I guess I must confess I have missed the mystery-speak. And even better, pithily.

The past in our lives is everything in the past, whether a moment or a thousand, whether in the Lord or not.

And justification and salvation is only about now, not the past, nor tomorrow that may not come.

Only our past sinning can be forgiven by the Lord today, if we confess with godly sorrow now. And so soon as we do confess to repent, we are forgiven now, not before, not later.

While in this mortal flesh, we remain in this world real time. Not in some mystical resurrection ascendence into spiritual time without body.



Jesus is the end of sinning for the righteous and the unrighteous, for them doing the law outwardly and for them transgressing the law. The former is spiritually cleansed within, and the latter to is saved from outward disobedience by inward faith: both become the one and the same in Christ, with the middle wall of partition taken away, The Jewish law doer and the Gentile lawless become spiritually clean within and outwardly sanctified in the flesh by the law of Christ, not of Moses.

There is no spiritual purity within, while there is only obedience in the letter, and certainly not while there is transgression against the letter.

While we are with Jesus, we are wholly sanctified in Him, doing the righteousness of the law by spiritual purity within, and outward cleansing of the flesh according to the law.



Scripture does not say that we no longer live. We certainly do continue to live in the flesh, and in Christ we are now also alive to God.

For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

It is certainly we who live, but the new life we live is no more our own past life dead in sins, but is now the new one of righteousness and true holiness, by Christ that now live in us.

This dead mortal body stuff, taking all the blame for sinning, is complete delusion. The old man of sin is the old life of sinning that the saint no longer lives, but is crucified on our own cross. We lose our own old life of sin, that we may now live new in Him. Any body sinning today is not alive in Christ today.

The body of the old man is not the flesh, but is the old body of life lived in the flesh.

Any sinning in the spirit and in the flesh is still by the soul, and the soul is always responsible for it, and judged dead and separated from God because of it.

No apologies...but I couldn't read all that blether.

I only got as far as you cutting the eternity of God out of the salvation equation. That is quite the unbiblical doctrinal invention. One would think that with so much to say and preach that you would know that with God (and those born of Him) "there is no shadow of turning"--no future time for sinning--no time. But I see you don't understand just how time and eternity converge.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

What is OFAF ? I know what OSAS stands for eventhough it is NOT backed by or in the word. Those that believe such, cherry pick the word. Few ever give scripture in context !

 

[BeyondET]

Reason alone says that no one can be forgiven for something not done, nor is being done at present. No harm, no foul.

The only things we can be forgiven of rightly, is what was done by us to God and/or man.

Scripture teaches such common sense, that only a sin committed against God or man, needs and can be forgiven, by God or man.

Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God. (Rom 3:25)

1. Remission is forgiveness of sins that are past, which is only past sinning: sin that has been committed in the past, whether a moment ago or anytime before.

The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the LORD hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. (Nahum 1:3)

2. This Scripture applies to present sinning, Which is by them who are doing evil and are presently wicked in sight of God. God does not at all acquit, forgive, remit the guilty while sinning against Himself.

A moment ago, yes, but not while doing so.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1)

The Scripture says two things: if we are now confessing our sins (homologomen), then He will forgive our sinning.

The confession is present time only, not future, and so forgiveness can only be for the present, not the future.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

3. Confession is godly sorrow to repent, and so forgiveness is only for sins being confessed from the heart to repent of.

This excludes any present sinning still going on with the devil at any time.

Not a moment ago, nor any time before, and certainly not yet committed in future.

Only past sinning can be forgiven by God, which is only when the sinning is being confessed with godly sorrow to repent thereof.

No wicked person while sinning with the devil, can possibly be acquitted and forgiven by Jesus Christ.

All believers are being sanctified, all time means all time not just the present but past and future.

Hebrews 10
11Day after day every priest stands to minister and to offer again and again the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.

12But when this Priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, He sat down at the right hand of God.

13Since that time, He waits for His enemies to be made a footstool for His feet,

14because by a single offering He has made perfect for all time those who are being sanctified.

 

[BeyondET]

So does everyone who believes in Jesus have to be worried every day going forward that a sin may not be forgiven in the future?

Walk a tight rope each day don't slip up.

 

[BeyondET]

No wicked person while sinning with the devil, can possibly be acquitted and forgiven by Jesus Christ.

It's just takes a moment in ones life to turn things around one of the thieves did.