Note: The religious will read this (maybe) but will have no sympathy for the end of the man who was reaching out for God.
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It has been my lot to find out, first hand, the results of those that teach sinless perfection in the flesh. How it causes many to turn away from Jesus.
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A tragic story:
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When I was about 25 years old I worked for a factory in Chattanooga, Tennessee. One night when I was working the third shift the security guard came and told me that a man was at the gate wanting to talk to me.
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It was a fellow worker at the plant who worked on the first shift and he was very distraught about Christianity. He said he wanted to be a Christian but it just didn't seem to work for him.
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I found that he had been talking to some Christians that were telling him that if he was a Christian he would stop sinning. He wanted to stop sinning but he said he couldn't because he still had those fleeting thoughts of sin in his mind and, of course he was told that if you think it you have done it in your mind. He wanted to know what I believed about it.
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I told him that Jesus came to save those that could not save themselves; to do for them what they could not do, that to believe in Jesus is to believe in what He did on the cross and to trust that it has saved you.
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I also told him that I still sin (I was being honest) and that everyone sins. He said what he had been told by other Christians, that if he sinned he was not a Christian and that I must not be one either since I said I still sinned. A week later this young man killed himself.
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It is obvious that this young man had emotional problems. It is also obvious that the Holy Spirit was convicting him of his sins so that he would turn to Jesus. But I saw, first hand, what the message of the self-righteous does to those that are seeking to be a Christian. They don't go in themselves (because they still sin too) and they prevent others that would go in from doing so, all because they want to see themselves as better, and more righteous, than others.
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Matt 23:11-13
11 "But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
12 "And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 "But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.
(NKJ)
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If I show anything to the world let it be the love of Jesus Christ for mankind and what He has done on the cross for all that will place their trust (faith) in Him.
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But the religious want to make a show that they do not sin any longer.
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Now if you wish to say that I should have told him I no longer sinned in the flesh because God has changed me, then I would be bearing false witness just as those that did it to him and those that do it today.
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1 John 1:8
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
NKJV ---------------- But the claim of many is that they no longer sin in the flesh.
Many, not understanding what sin really is, have lived in the flesh and yet claimed to be in the Spirit. This is wrong, no doubt.
But you falsely tack this on to what some here are saying. The truth is very simple, if one walks in the Spirit he does NOT fulfill the lusts of the flesh, and if we abide in him we walk just as he walked.
As I said in my response to williemac, I have not attained this... But I do not, just because I have not yet seen with my own eyes, or attained, say that it is not true. The standard of Christ remains, even if only one man ever reaches it.
The truth is that everything is possible with God, and God is able to overcome... That includes in us!
A wise man would encourage such a man, that God is merciful, and that God is patient, and that God is not looking for those who cannot help themselves... When you say that, it is perfectly true, God is here to save those who can't save themselves! :) But His salvation is not just a future event when, once we die, we are finally pure. Rather now, though we are weak, by his power he cleanses us and fills us that we might be conformed
now. From there, we learn to conform ourselves to him in our characters and to live in the Spirit as Christ does.
The only thing you take out of the equation, Richard, is God's power to save us from the nature of sin now, and to actually make us live by a new power.... But this is what the gospel is about, that we would come together to live in his presence, in his power, so that we would be conformed to him. Taking this out of the gospel nullifies it's power and cuts us of from what Jesus wants to do TODAY.
The fruit of the spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control. Against such there is no law. The first three are they which come to us from God, and the latter six are they that come out from within towards others, in the strength of the first three. Self control is often misunderstood. the catergory here is our treatment of others.
This is how Jesus walked. This is how we are to walk.
He will say.." inasmuch as you did it to the least of these, you did it to Me".
Christianity for some has merely become another self improvement organization. This isn't about behavior modifiction. This is about a new creation. There are methods that work, but ultimately cause distress in the heart. We see this in many homes, where children are not given a healthy self image. They may learn to behave themselves, but in the end they resent their parent(s) and go out into the world with disfunctions. And many fall hard.
There are those who come to Christ that have been abused, lied to, oppressed... are disfunctional, addicted, damaged, mentally unstable, weak minded...and on and on. There are often miracles that help those on the way to recovery. But there are also many religious organizations that run roughshod over people in the effort to change their behavior.
Some change almost literally overnight. Some are healed of their wounds. But what about those who struggle? Does Jesus break a bended reed? Does he snuff out a smouldering wick? He said otherwise. So I advise we walk as He walks in this regard as well. Do we kick a man who is down? Or do we lend him a loving hand? This is what assurance is for. It is there for these times. There are many doctrines and messages that serve to interfere with or take away one's assurance. Do that and we take away the some of the power to change.
This is counter intuitive. Many look at the so called grace message as a license to sin, or the permission to live an unchanged life. But the message of assurance, while it may seem like a permissive message, actually is the message that heals the heart and provides a healthy envoirnment for the Christian walk. We should not underestimate the power of a healthy self image.
There are many who do the right things for the wrong reasons and walk with little or no joy, and little or no peace.
A big Amen to the first 4 of 7 paragraphs! :) Christianity has nothing to do with self-improvement... I agree wholeheartedly that this is about a new life, and the fruit of the Spirit. But then here is what I'm trying to get to, if by God's Spirit,
and nothing of our own efforts, we have experienced joy and love in the Lord, how then can we say God is powerless to so fill us with this love and joy that no vile thing could enter? Is his power limited? The scope of his reach into our lives restricted by some greater force (the flesh??) ? Do we limit how much we believe God can do and will do if we really seek him with all our hearts?
I hope you understand I am in no way condemning those who do not walk like this... I have told you, I have not attained it myself.... We encourage the week, and hope to give the strength. We seek with them.... All the while upholding the standard of Christ. When a man runs a race, there is a prize, and though we might not yet have attained it, we must keep our eyes on it. The prize is Christ himself. Wisdom is that to whatever we have already attained, we live up, and what we have not, we strive towards in the Lord.
One who walks with no love or joy does not know the Spirit. :) When we are in Christ, we are filled with the same life, love, joy, peace.... And this leaves space for nothing else! May we arrive at such a place!
