Galatians 5

[dragonfly]

Hi Richard,

Today this is still the sin that separate men from God. They do not believe that Jesus' shed blood reconciles man to God unless the sinful flesh can stop sinning in the flesh.

While this may be appropriate to the beliefs of certain people, particularly those who grew up in a Christianised culture/household, this is not what I am talking about. Nor what Episkopos is talking about. We are discussing the Christian life; the life of those who have believed in Jesus Christ already, whose preceding sins have been blotted out through the remission in His blood.

According to the only mention of 'flesh' in Galatians 3, they had already begun in the Spirit : that is, the Spirit in which Paul says that if we will walk in Him, we will not fulfil the lusts of the flesh.


Brother, the sinful flesh can stop sinning by being grafted into the death of Jesus Christ, so that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus can begin to operate. This is what Paul is working towards in Romans 7. Remember, Paul was not a Pharisee any more. He was born again and moving in the gifts of the Spirit when he wrote the letter to the Romans.

He was not living the lifestyle he had lived before his conversion. He had stopped arranging the arrests of Christians, imprisoning them, forcing them to blaspheme, maiming them, having them murdered or put to death through trial by lion. He was a changed man. He was most particularly teaching that it is necessary to cease from sinning, as testimony to our new relationship with God through Christ.


According to your posts on this topic:

1) You don't believe it's possible to lay down the lusts of the flesh.

2) You have no power when you are tempted, to resist sin.

3) You believe you can sin in all areas of your life but you are saved anyway because of some what Paul has written (but not all).

4) You disregard all the scriptures I showed in my previous post, in which victory over sin is both advocated and possible.

5) You do not believe that sinning as a lifestyle, will exclude you from the kingdom of heaven.





Have I understood you correctly? :)

 

[williemac]

I am testifying to the very same thing in that quote. We can walk in an actual light...a light we can see as our eyes are opened to the kingdom of God. The presence of God is full of light. True Christian fellowship is in that light where we are walking together IN Christ. The sheer love and holiness in that presence causes the brethren to change the world simply by their presence.



Are you still in unbelief? Do you walk as Jesus walked ? Do you believe in the power of grace? Do you believe you can overcome sin while in the body through abiding in Christ? If not then you are in more unbelief than the Jews who were cut off were in. They testified to the power of God...then forgot to apply it to the rest of their lives. But most believers today know nothing of God at all let alone believe that God can do ALL things.

We are transformed by the renewing of the mind. The word power simply means the ability to cause a result. The word grace applies to the giving of something freely. What God gave us is a new man, created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph.4:24), through the new birth, but in that passage Paul urges them to put on this new man. In other words, we do not tap into some mystical power in order to stop sinning. What we do is simply apply a new understanding concerning who and what we are and walk accordingly. The goal is not so much to stop something but rather do something. We are called to bear fruit. Sin consciousness serves no good purpose. It is counter productive. It produces sinful thoughts and desires. We are to become rather conscious of our righteousness and put on a new self image. These things are accomplished through understanding.

A human belief is not what God is interested in....He wants true faith that trusts that because God said it it will be done...even if it sounds impossible. You can tell very quickly if a person has any faith at all. Just ask..." can men stop sinning through grace???" If they reply that we can't then there is no faith at all.

Men can stop sinning with or without God. This has been proven consistantly throughout history. But this is relative. A good moral lifestyle is just a matter of individual opinion. The truth is that no man has ever changed his own nature. And no man in Christ has walked in moral perfection throughout his lifetime. One can stop sinning , but this has no garuntee that it is permanent. Even yourself can sin in a heartbeat. We have not lost that capacity or that potential. It still resides in our flesh.

The thing that makes me uneasy here is not so much the question about whether we can live a righteous life. I have confidence that this is indeed possible. However, when we associate this with victory, we have lost sight of the more lofty goal. It is not about what we can absatin from. Our victory comes by how we effect others in this life. It is about love. One can absatin from many sinful things and still treat his fellow man poorly, or worse indifferently. Christ in us would rather love others through us.

 

[Episkopos]

We are transformed by the renewing of the mind. The word power simply means the ability to cause a result. The word grace applies to the giving of something freely. What God gave us is a new man, created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph.4:24), through the new birth, but in that passage Paul urges them to put on this new man. In other words, we do not tap into some mystical power in order to stop sinning. What we do is simply apply a new understanding concerning who and what we are and walk accordingly. The goal is not so much to stop something but rather do something. We are called to bear fruit. Sin consciousness serves no good purpose. It is counter productive. It produces sinful thoughts and desires. We are to become rather conscious of our righteousness and put on a new self image. These things are accomplished through understanding.
Men can stop sinning with or without God. This has been proven consistantly throughout history. But this is relative. A good moral lifestyle is just a matter of individual opinion. The truth is that no man has ever changed his own nature. And no man in Christ has walked in moral perfection throughout his lifetime. One can stop sinning , but this has no garuntee that it is permanent. Even yourself can sin in a heartbeat. We have not lost that capacity or that potential. It still resides in our flesh.

The thing that makes me uneasy here is not so much the question about whether we can live a righteous life. I have confidence that this is indeed possible. However, when we associate this with victory, we have lost sight of the more lofty goal. It is not about what we can absatin from. Our victory comes by how we effect others in this life. It is about love. One can absatin from many sinful things and still treat his fellow man poorly, or worse indifferently. Christ in us would rather love others through us.

I agree with much of what you say. You are speaking from the point of view of righteousness according to what men can do. What the gospel is about goes beyond this type of righteousness..it is God's righteousness in us which comes to us as a supernatural (mystical if you will) power to walk in complete holiness. Do you believe the miracles of the bible are real or merely symbolic? All the ways of God are supernatural.

Brother, the sinful flesh can stop sinning by being grafted into the death of Jesus Christ, so that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus can begin to operate.

Dragonfly, you are a true brother! I have added you as a friend! :)

God bless you!

 

[servantfiss]

Galations 5 seems simple enough , justification by faith and not the Law , as it is written , there shall no flesh be justified by the works of the Law .

 

[williemac]

I agree with much of what you say. You are speaking from the point of view of righteousness according to what men can do. What the gospel is about goes beyond this type of righteousness..it is God's righteousness in us which comes to us as a supernatural (mystical if you will) power to walk in complete holiness. Do you believe the miracles of the bible are real or merely symbolic? All the ways of God are supernatural.

The righteousness in us resides within the new man. The miracle was the new birth. We are a new creation. We ARE the righteousness of God IN CHRIST. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels (2Cor.4:7). This is to keep us humble.
I don't agree with using absolute terms such as complete holiness. Are we talking 24/7 here? No way!
The fact is, man's free will, or his own mind, is involved in this equation. If it wasn't, we would all be automatically walking around in complete holiness under the supernatural control of God. So tell us please. Since you are supposedly accomplishing this wonderful supernatural holy and righteous daily walk in the spirit, how is this done? If you are not, then why bother us with this theory. If you are, then instead of criticising others for their failure, why not instruct them/us as to just how to get there?

FYI, as far as the miracles are concerned. None of them in scripture are in the category of changing a person's behavior. The manifestations of the Spirit are mentioned by Paul in 1Cor.12. They are for the profit of all (vs.7). They are miracles that flow out of a person for the benefit of another. The only exception I am aware of is the use of tongues as a prayer language, which I do. So yes, I do believe in these miracles.

 

[RichardBurger]

Hi Richard,

Brother, the sinful flesh can stop sinning by being grafted into the death of Jesus Christ, so that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus can begin to operate. This is what Paul is working towards in Romans 7. Remember, Paul was not a Pharisee any more. He was born again and moving in the gifts of the Spirit when he wrote the letter to the Romans.

He was not living the lifestyle he had lived before his conversion. He had stopped arranging the arrests of Christians, imprisoning them, forcing them to blaspheme, maiming them, having them murdered or put to death through trial by lion. He was a changed man. He was most particularly teaching that it is necessary to cease from sinning, as testimony to our new relationship with God through Christ.


According to your posts on this topic:

1) You don't believe it's possible to lay down the lusts of the flesh.

2) You have no power when you are tempted, to resist sin.

3) You believe you can sin in all areas of your life but you are saved anyway because of some what Paul has written (but not all).

4) You disregard all the scriptures I showed in my previous post, in which victory over sin is both advocated and possible.

5) You do not believe that sinning as a lifestyle, will exclude you from the kingdom of heaven.

Have I understood you correctly? :)

1) You don't believe it's possible to lay down the lusts of the flesh.

1a. There is not anyone in this world that can control the sinful flesh and become sinless. If they could they would not need Jesus' shed blood to cover their sins since they would not have any sins to cover. To preach that man can stop sinning in the flesh is a direct contradiction of what God has said; "anyone who says they are without sin is a liar and the truth is not in him." The gospel of grace is not about controlling the sinful flesh. It is about what God did to justify the sins of the sinful flesh

2) You have no power when you are tempted, to resist sin.

2a.That is mis-representing what I am saying. Mankind has very little control over his sinful nature (NOT NONE). I believe the word of God when He says "anyone who says they are without sin is a liar and the truth is not in him." Obviously most here don't believe the words of God.

3) You believe you can sin in all areas of your life but you are saved anyway because of some what Paul has written (but not all).

3a. It is not sins of the flesh that condemns a person in this age of grace. To think so is to deny that Jesus' shed blood paid for ALL THE SINS OF THE WORLD. That includes yours and mine. The only sin that condemns a person today is to NOT believe the gospel of grace as jesus' gave it to Paul. In other words to NOT believe your sins are paid for by the shed blood of Jesus on the cross is to deny the power of GOD to save sinners and shows you do not have faith in Jesus.

4) You disregard all the scriptures I showed in my previous post, in which victory over sin is both advocated and possible.

4a. Again you miss-represent what I do. I believe ALL OF THE SCRIPTURES. But that does not mean I believe everything your ideas say about them. You are close to saying I do not comment on your scriptures when in reallity you don't comment on mine either except to say they don't mean what I say they do. Don't be a hypocrite by saying I am doing a wrong while you are doing the same thing. You still look for the flesh to save it's self by what it does which is salvation by works, not grace.

5) You do not believe that sinning as a lifestyle, will exclude you from the kingdom of heaven.

5a. As above, the only sin that condemnes in this world today is the sin of UNBELIEF. Unbelief that the sins of all mankind were paid for on the cross. But it does not save those that do not place their faith in it doing so.

You said; "Brother, the sinful flesh can stop sinning by being grafted into the death of Jesus Christ, so that the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus can begin to operate. This is what Paul is working towards in Romans 7. Remember, Paul was not a Pharisee any more. He was born again and moving in the gifts of the Spirit when he wrote the letter to the Romans.

Answer; You will not see that there is any difference in the sinful flesh and the Spirit. THE SPIRIT THAT IS BORN OF GOD IS SINLESS BECAUSE IT IS BORN OF GOD. This is not saying the flesh is born of God and is sinless.

You continued: He was not living the lifestyle he had lived before his conversion. He had stopped arranging the arrests of Christians, imprisoning them, forcing them to blaspheme, maiming them, having them murdered or put to death through trial by lion. He was a changed man. He was most particularly teaching that it is necessary to cease from sinning, as testimony to our new relationship with God through Christ.

Yes, he was a changed man in that he was given the truth about religion which he called worthless later. But there is no mention that his flesh had become sinless. It is wrong to read more into a scripture than God put in it. Paul never said that it is necessary to stop sinning in the flesh in order to be saved. Being saved that way is to keep the Law of Moses.

You can't sit back and claim I never reply to your ideas when everyone can see that I do.

 

[Episkopos]

The righteousness in us resides within the new man. The miracle was the new birth. We are a new creation. We ARE the righteousness of God IN CHRIST. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels (2Cor.4:7). This is to keep us humble.
I don't agree with using absolute terms such as complete holiness. Are we talking 24/7 here? No way!
The fact is, man's free will, or his own mind, is involved in this equation. If it wasn't, we would all be automatically walking around in complete holiness under the supernatural control of God. So tell us please. Since you are supposedly accomplishing this wonderful supernatural holy and righteous daily walk in the spirit, how is this done? If you are not, then why bother us with this theory. If you are, then instead of criticising others for their failure, why not instruct them/us as to just how to get there?

FYI, as far as the miracles are concerned. None of them in scripture are in the category of changing a person's behavior. The manifestations of the Spirit are mentioned by Paul in 1Cor.12. They are for the profit of all (vs.7). They are miracles that flow out of a person for the benefit of another. The only exception I am aware of is the use of tongues as a prayer language, which I do. So yes, I do believe in these miracles.

I am pointing out what the bible is saying as true...and yes I have experienced this...and hung in there for various lengths of time. I understand Paul when he said...I have not yet atained...and he said this as someone "dead to sin".

How do we get filled with the Spirit? By seeking the Lord in a full surrender...and being emptied of what normally fills us in order to present an empty vessel to God for fillling. There is a sense of urgency that is required that usually happens after we have failed greatly and KNOW we need God. This usually creates the circumstance where we are willingly emptied...but should we sin so that we feel this way and seek hard enough to receive His grace? In other words...should we sin in order to produce grace from God?

There is no magic formula beyond falling in love with Jesus Christ. I have also learned that by being grafted with other disciples in community helps turn us to God in this way. :)

 

[RichardBurger]

I am pointing out what the bible is saying as true...and yes I have experienced this...and hung in there for various lengths of time. I understand Paul when he said...I have not yet atained...and he said this as someone "dead to sin".

How do we get filled with the Spirit? By seeking the Lord in a full surrender...and being emptied of what normally fills us in order to present an empty vessel to God for fillling. There is a sense of urgency that is required that usually happens after we have failed greatly and KNOW we need God. This usually creates the circumstance where we are willingly emptied...but should we sin so that we feel this way and seek hard enough to receive His grace? In other words...should we sin in order to produce grace from God?

There is no magic formula beyond falling in love with Jesus Christ. I have also learned that by being grafted with other disciples in community helps turn us to God in this way. :)

To me, what you are saying is that we are filled with the Spirit when we do something to earn it.

 

[dragonfly]

Hello Richard,

Thanks for your reply to my post.

You still look for the flesh to save it's self by what it does which is salvation by works, not grace.

I perceive by your comments that the difference between what I wrote, and what you think I wrote, remain. Still, I will bring to you a few more verses, which deal with the flesh through Christ's cross and death.

Romans 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.


Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Galatians 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

There is not anyone in this world that can control the sinful flesh and become sinless. If they could they would not need Jesus' shed blood to cover their sins since they would not have any sins to cover.

So are you saying you are not crucified with Christ, and this is why you carry on sinning?

Another question, and I really would like a BIble verse from the New Testament to support your answer.
Where does it say that 'Jesus shed blood to cover ... sins'?


Many thanks for your time. :)

 

[RichardBurger]

Hello Richard,

Thanks for your reply to my post.


So are you saying you are not crucified with Christ, and this is why you carry on sinning?

Another question, and I really would like a BIble verse from the New Testament to support your answer.
Where does it say that 'Jesus shed blood to cover ... sins'?


Many thanks for your time. :)

Again you are trying to put words in my mouth. I do wish you would stop.

What does the scriptures say?

Romans 6:3-7
3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

This does not mean we can stop sinning in the flesh. The newness of live is the fact that we have become children of God IN THE SPIRIT; by faith. Our Spirit has been reborn of God not by our works of not sinning in the flesh.

5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also """"shall be""" in the likeness of His resurrection, [Shall be = future event]

6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
NKJV

Galatians 2:19-21
19 For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God.
20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

The above does not mean we live by our works of law but by our faith in the Son of God.

21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain."
NKJV

Jesus' shed blood cleanses us from all sin. Note it is a done deal not progressive.

Ephesians 2:13
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
NKJV

1 Peter 1:18-21
18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you
21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
NKJV

1 John 1:7-8
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
NKJV

 

[Episkopos]

To me, what you are saying is that we are filled with the Spirit when we do something to earn it.

It is by faith Richard. God loves faith and responds when we cry out to Him by faith. He loves us and will translate us into His kingdom when we make room for Him.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi williemac,

FYI, as far as the miracles are concerned. None of them in scripture are in the category of changing a person's behavior. The manifestations of the Spirit are mentioned by Paul in 1Cor.12. They are for the profit of all (vs.7). They are miracles that flow out of a person for the benefit of another. The only exception I am aware of is the use of tongues as a prayer language, which I do. So yes, I do believe in these miracles.

Without diminishing the operation of the gifts for the common good, I believe all the gifts are for the building up of the person exercising them, also.

There's a point in an earlier post you made which I'd like to take up when I find it. Meanwhile, I'd like to look at this:

I don't agree with using absolute terms such as complete holiness. Are we talking 24/7 here? No way!

I think we need to depart from the way the word 'holy' has come to be used - as a criticism of Christians and those desiring to please God. In scripture, which is the only definition that concerns us, holiness was the state of having been set apart for God's sole use, as the vessels in the Temple had been: that's what made a thing 'holy'. I believe you would agree that you have set yourself apart to God for His continuous good pleasure and use. In this sense, if 'sanctification' is to do with having become 'holy', then through our coming to faith in Him, we are instantly sanctified wholly, by the application of the blood of Christ, by walking in the light as He is in the Light. Another name for this is the way of the cross.

God is looking for the leaning of our hearts towards Him. He is anxious to forgive us if we will humbly confess when we have failed HIm. John says:
1:3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

We are not to dwell on our failures, but use them as guidance as to becoming more like Jesus, by being changed (2 Cor 3:17, 18)



Hi Richard,

Have you ever read Young's Literal Translation of Romans 5, 6, 7 and 8? I would be grateful if you would do so, looking for all the places 'the sin' is mentioned. (It's quick to find them by using the Find option in the Edit menu.)

You said,

4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

This does not mean we can stop sinning in the flesh. The newness of live is the fact that we have become children of God IN THE SPIRIT; by faith. Our Spirit has been reborn of God not by our works of not sinning in the flesh.

According to the explanation given by Paul, we can stop sinning in the flesh by walking in the Spirit. That's why I quoted so many verses which have the past tense. If you have skipped over the past tense, you are missing a great truth.

Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [walk = whole lifestyle]

You will see from the literal translation, that Paul refers to 'the sin'. It is 'the sin' which was crucified with Christ in Romans 6:6, which was the spiritual power which had found its outworking through our flesh. Paul's thesis is this, that if this spiritual power has been put to death in Christ for us, then it no longer has dominion over us, as long as we 'reckon ourselves dead to sin' in Him. It is this precise point you are arguing against.

You see, if you read the 10 commandments and think about them, they are all to do with attitude, and how that plays out in physical reality. Yes, we worship God in spirit and in truth when we prostrate ourselves before Him, and pray, or sing praises to Him in worship, but when we are not doing church that way, we worship Him by walking in whole-hearted repentance. That means we have turned our whole bodies from doing sin, and we are using them as instruments for righteousness, to bear fruit unto God. (Romans 7:4) If you've never seen this in scripture before, please look for it, and don't be afraid to leave the doctrines of men - 'I can't stop sinning.' - for the doctrine of Jesus Christ:

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you...' if you walk in the Spirit.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

 

[RichardBurger]

name='dragonfly' timestamp='1341928200' post='156044'

Hi Richard,

Have you ever read Young's Literal Translation of Romans 5, 6, 7 and 8? I would be grateful if you would do so, looking for all the places 'the sin' is mentioned. (It's quick to find them by using the Find option in the Edit menu.)

My comment; NO! I read the word of God for my information about God. I don't need anothers interpretation of God's word. I am completely confident that the Holy Spirit teaches me the word of God.

According to the explanation given by Paul, we can stop sinning in the flesh by walking in the Spirit. That's why I quoted so many verses which have the past tense. If you have skipped over the past tense, you are missing a great truth.

My comment: You have the idea that walking in the Spirit is walking while trying not to sin. As long as you will not see that walking in the Spirit is walking in the faith, trust, confidence that Jesus' shed blood pays for all your sin of the flesh you will continue on your path of self-righteousness. Since we do not see the same thing you will just continue to say that you are walking in the Spirit when you are trying not sin in the flesh. This is getting old.

Galatians 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. [walk = whole lifestyle]

My comment: Where do you find "walk = whole lifestyle" in the scriptures? You have made this up.

You will see from the literal translation, that Paul refers to 'the sin'. It is 'the sin' which was crucified with Christ in Romans 6:6, which was the spiritual power which had found its outworking through our flesh. Paul's thesis is this, that if this spiritual power has been put to death in Christ for us, then it no longer has dominion over us, as long as we 'reckon ourselves dead to sin' in Him. It is this precise point you are arguing against.

My comment: No! it isn't. Romans 6:6-7
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.
NKJV ----- Who crucified our flesh with Him? Was it you? If you still feel that you must keep the law you are still a slave to your sins. I do not feel that I must keep the law and I am no longer a slave to sins of the flesh because I am dead to it.


You see, if you read the 10 commandments and think about them, they are all to do with attitude, and how that plays out in physical reality. Yes, we worship God in spirit and in truth when we prostrate ourselves before Him, and pray, or sing praises to Him in worship, but when we are not doing church that way, we worship Him by walking in whole-hearted repentance. That means we have turned our whole bodies from doing sin, and we are using them as instruments for righteousness, to bear fruit unto God. (Romans 7:4) If you've never seen this in scripture before, please look for it, and don't be afraid to leave the doctrines of men - 'I can't stop sinning.' - for the doctrine of Jesus Christ:

My comment: I am no longer under the law so why are you trying to get me back under it? The Law kills but the Spirit give life.

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

My comment: Jesus was talking to those who were under the law of Moses. We are not under the law of Moses but under grace. Why can't you see this?

Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members [as] instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members [as] instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you...' if you walk in the Spirit.

My comment: I walk in the knowledge that Jesus' blood has covered my sins of the flesh and they can no longer harm me. To me that is walking in the Spirit but you seem to refuse to see it as I do. I do reckon myself to be dead to sin, Not that my flesh does not commit them but since I am dead to that law they no longer harm me.

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

My Comment: Peter was talking to the Jews who had killed their Messiah. I did not kill the Jewish Messiah and Peter was not speaking to me. Therefore these words are not to me.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made perfect, he (((JEUS))) became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

My comment: Again it is your assumption that obeying Him is keeping the commadment in the Law of Moses. Obeying Him under grace is to believe, have faith, trust and confidence in HIS work on the cross. Jesus gave Paul the gospel on grace for the Gentiles and everyone, both Jew and Gentile are saved under grace in this age of grace.


How long do I have to tell you the same things before you will be able to see them?

It is by faith Richard. God loves faith and responds when we cry out to Him by faith. He loves us and will translate us into His kingdom when we make room for Him.

How do we make room for Him?

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Richard,

Perhaps you would answer this one question, before I try to answer the rest of your post?

Acts 5:32
And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

My Comment: Peter was talking to the Jews who had killed their Messiah. I did not kill the Jewish Messiah and Peter was not speaking to me. Therefore these words are not to me.

On what basis, then, do you avail yourself of Christ's death?

 

[RichardBurger]

Hi Richard,

Perhaps you would answer this one question, before I try to answer the rest of your post?



On what basis, then, do you avail yourself of Christ's death?

Paul's gospel of grace! Not everything in the Scriptures are written to me or you. Jesus came to setup the promised kingdom for the Jews. He said, in His own words, that he came ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel. But, today, the religious will not believe Him. The 12 continued to preach Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and King. They NEVER preached salvation by the grace of God through faith. Paul was sent BY JESUS to the Gentiles with a gospel that was of grace, not law.

Paul told me, in his writtings, that Jesus' shed blood pays for my sins and I believe it. On the basis of God's promise of salvation paid for by Jesus' shed blood I avail myself of Christ's death. This is my answer, like it or not.

Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame."
NKJV

But the religious add to this that a person must have works to be saved.

 

[Episkopos]

How do we make room for Him?

Repentance from dead works and a full surrender of our lives together with a faith towards God that He will intervene. When we do this with ALL our heart....He acts from heaven and the power comes down.

Lightning needs something to ground it...once that ground is found the power is unleashed. So it is with faith. As we cry out to God in faith He sends grace to us.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Richard,

Paul's gospel of grace! Not everything in the Scriptures are written to me or you. Jesus came to setup the promised kingdom for the Jews. He said, in His own words, that he came ONLY to the lost sheep of Israel. But, today, the religious will not believe Him. The 12 continued to preach Jesus as the Jewish Messiah and King. They NEVER preached salvation by the grace of God through faith. Paul was sent BY JESUS to the Gentiles with a gospel that was of grace, not law.

Paul told me, in his writtings, that Jesus' shed blood pays for my sins and I believe it. On the basis of God's promise of salvation paid for by Jesus' shed blood I avail myself of Christ's death. This is my answer, like it or not.

Paul also said:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


With reference to 'walk = whole lifestyle' which you questioned, here is Strong's definition -

walk
New Testament Greek Definition:
4043 peripateo {per-ee-pat-eh'-o}
from 4012 and 3961; TDNT - 5:940,804; v
AV - walk 93, go 1, walk about 1, be occupied 1; 96
1) to walk
1a) to make one's way, progress; to make due use of opportunities
1b) Hebrew for, to live
1b1) to regulate one's life
1b2) to conduct one's self
1b3) to pass one's life


Lastly, Young's Literal Translation is not an 'interpretation'. That is the meaning of 'literal', There is no 'interpretation' in it at all.

 

[RichardBurger]

Hi Richard,



Paul also said:

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


With reference to 'walk = whole lifestyle' which you questioned, here is Strong's definition -

walk
New Testament Greek Definition:
4043 peripateo {per-ee-pat-eh'-o}
from 4012 and 3961; TDNT - 5:940,804; v
AV - walk 93, go 1, walk about 1, be occupied 1; 96
1) to walk
1a) to make one's way, progress; to make due use of opportunities
1b) Hebrew for, to live
1b1) to regulate one's life
1b2) to conduct one's self
1b3) to pass one's life


Lastly, Young's Literal Translation is not an 'interpretation'. That is the meaning of 'literal', There is no 'interpretation' in it at all.

We will never see the same thing. All of the scriptures are written FOR US, but not all are written to us. James 1:1 plainly shows that the book of James was written to the Jews, not the Gentiles. James actually wrote this but you do not believe him. You insert your words over his.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Richard,

James actually wrote this but you do not believe him.

What makes you say I don't believe James 1:1?

Do you believe what Paul says about Gentiles becoming members of the commonwealth of Israel?

Ephesians 2:11 - 13 Wherefore remember, that ye [being] in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; that at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. ... 19 - 22 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[RichardBurger]

Hi Richard,

What makes you say I don't believe James 1:1?

James 1:1
JAMES Greeting to the Twelve Tribes 1 James, a bondservant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad: Greetings.
NKJV

You, and most others here on this forum, believe the book of James was written to the Gentile grace church and it was clearly written to the Jews who were scattered abroad. If it was intended for the grace church it would have said so.

I will not comment on the new scriptures you want to inject since I have already said all I am going to say to you