Do you have a scripture that positively states that all prophecy was fulfilled in 70ad w/o resorting to chaotic symbolism?
Get Rapture Ready or will you be be left Behind?
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Do you have a scripture that positively states that all prophecy was fulfilled in 70ad w/o resorting to chaotic symbolism?
There is no scripture claiming such. We still wait for the complete fulfillment of prophecy according to scripture.
Well does that mean you believe Rev. is history as the preterists do because it's plain to me that He is not an amillennial or do you go to the dark side and get all symbolic?
If you learn the spiritual nature of the Kingdom from Jesus, and how he rejected physical kingdom ideas of the pharisees, you have a better chance at understanding Revelation. But until then, you will add to the book calling for a physical millennium.
Possibly because you like labels? (They are convenient for shutting people in a box so they don't have to be listened to.)
Davy
Well-Known Member
As I've said elsewhere about the origin of the pre-trib rapture theory, it was first preached in 1830's Great Britain by the Edward Irving Church and is where John Darby got the idea which he preached. Prior to the 1830's, a post-tribulational coming and gathering to Christ is what was preached in the Christian Church. The pre-trib rapture theory cannot be supported Biblically either.
God's sealing of His servants by The Holy Spirit is in preparation to go through... the coming great tribulation Jesus warned His about. The purpose of the sealing specifically is shown in Revelation 9 in contrast to those not... sealed with God's seal being able to be stung for five months on the 5th Trumpet - 1st Woe period. But the pre-trib rapture doctrinists who prefer to write their own Bible disregard that actual purpose for God's sealing in prep for the great tribulation and instead create their own policies. In the OT prophets, God compared those kind of preachers as building walls with untempered mortar, which when a rain comes the wall comes down. That is how the pre-trib rapture theory will be once the coming Antichrist appears and places the "abomination of desolation" idol in a new Jewish temple in Jerusalem.
I don't see where Christ changed the practice of literal fulfillments to vague symbolic fulfillments. All known prophecies that have been fulfilled have been fulfilled, literally and not symbolically.
It's more likely that all the amillennials I met have been preterist. No label, simple fact.
This is just HILARIOUS.
Here is what Jesus taught through the apostle John, where "a (the) thousand years" = 1 Millennium (repeated six times).
REVELATION 20
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
You need to understand Jesus' teaching on the spiritual nature of the kingdom before you can understand Revelation 20. Otherwise, you add to the book of Revelation by importing a physical kingdom as he warns against doing.
He didn't change anything. He interpreted what the prophets meant, not what they said. As Paul says the letter (literal) kills but the Spirit gives life.
There is not a Christian alive who is not a partial preterist... including you.
"THOSE" you named were......First ?
You are utterly MISTAKEN.
The CALLING UP TO THE CLOUDS "TO MEET JESUS IN THE AIR", pertains TO THOSE "PARTICULAR"..."IN CHRIST" .. WAS PREACHED....somewhere abouts...
AD 52, or 19 years or so AFTER Jesus rose up from the Dead.
Likely Preached BY Paul in a Letter TO the Theolonians.
THE "RAPTURE" IS A ONE WORD TERM "LATER" taught by men, IN REFERENCE SPECIFICALLY, TO MEN IN CHRIST "THEY BEING RESCUED FROM THE PERIL", that SHALL BE UPON THE EARTH.
Hebrew WORD....Gazal -
Meaning to snatch from peril
Meaning to quickly rescue someone from peril
Greek WORD......Harpazo -
Meaning to Seize - Snatch - Carry away.
Latin WORD........Rapio -
Meaning to Seize - Snatch - Carry away
English WORD.....Rapture -
Meaning to Seize - Snatch - Carry away
SEIZE, SNATCH, TAKE QUICKLY, CARRY AWAY
Are all words of different languages meaning the same thing....TO QUICKLY Rescue someone FROM PERIL.
WHAT Peril?
Matt 24:21
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
What peril was in the beginning of the world.....ding, ding, ding.....FLOOD, where by ONLY "EIGHT" HUMANS were "saved"...
IN WHAT MANNER were "THEY" SAVED from THE Peril ON Earth? THEY were RAISED UP above the FACE OF THE EARTH...
Gen 7:
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
And WHAT Peril IS YET TO COME?
Woes unto them who DO NOT BELIEVE...
IN God "and" Christ Jesus.
Revealing to men, "Gods Power in Satan."
Revealing WARNINGS, via...
...Two Wintsses
...144,000 virgin Jews
....An Angel preaching to the WHOLE world.
Gods "cup of INDGINATION" upon the Earth.
IF you ARE NOT...
One of the Two witnesses;
One of the 144,000 virgin Jews
The Angel preaching to the whole world....
What exactly WOULD YOU BE DOING ON EARTH?
And WHY would you NOT ALREADY BE where the Lord called you to.....When He separated THOSE THAT ARE HIS, FROM THOSE WHO ARE NOT YET HIS?
Rev 14:
[10] The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation;
You GOING to BE ON EARTH, WHILE GOD is POURING OUT "HIS INDIGNATION" upon the EARTH?
The Lord God Himself will not BE ON EARTH....why would HIS SAVED?
Go through? No.
Christ's CHURCH IS NOT APPOINTED to suffer OR GO THROUGH The great tribulation.
Christ's Church IS TAKEN UP TO THE CLOUDS TO MEET Jesus in the AIR....BEFORE the Tribulation begins.
Did you not STUDY Revelations, whereby John is SEEING what WILL HAPPEN "ON EARTH" ?
Did you NOT NOTICE, WHERE John WAS, and WHOM John WAS WITH, while HE WAS SEEING what was Happening ON EARTH?
Rev 4:1
[1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
[2] And immediately I was in the spirit:
Rev 11:
[10] And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
[11] And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
There ARE WOES in the end Days during the TRIBULATION.
Seven SEALS, (opened by Jesus)
Seven TRUMPETS (sounds by Angels with the Trumpets).
Seven BOWLS/VIALS (poured out by God upon the Earth)
The 7 year Tribulation IS a PERIOD OF TIME, FOR THOSE "NOT SEALED"....TO BECOME SEALED....or Forfit BEING FOREVER WITH God.
UH.....THOSE IN Christ......ARE ALREADY SEALED....ALREADY "DIVIDED" "FROM" the UNSEALED.....
Why are you teaching to HAULT the Lords "ACT" of SEPARATING what HE has ALREADY "DIVIDED" ?
The DIVIDING....IS WHAT Jesus came TO DO.
LUKE 12:
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:
The SePARATION...IS WHAT the Lord IS DOING...WHEN HE "CALLS UP TO HIM" that which IS DIVIDED unto Him, what IS Sealed unto Him, "FROM" what REJECTED HIM, and is NOT "SEALED UNTO HIM".
Christ's Church.....IS NOT TOLD TO REMAIN ON EARTH, and CONTINUE DIVIDING and SEPARATING "those SEALED unto God from NOT SEALED unto God".
IF YOU ARE Christ's Church, (IN CHRIST), that is YOUR JOB NOW, BEFORE the Lord "Separates" YOU FROM the UNSEALED.
DURING the 7 year Tribulation, THE Lord PROVIDES..."OTHERS" WHO ARE Faithful unto God....to TELL those REMAINING ON THE EARTH.
His TWO Witnesses.
His 144,000 Virgin Jews.
His Angel.
During the 7 year Tribulation; ANY MAN, JEW or GENTILE who has NOT "taken the MARK of the BEAST"....AND Comes into belief IN God and Christ Jesus....SHALL BE SAVED.....
AND SHALL BE CALL UP TO HIM, (WHEN HE CALLS "THEM" UP)...off the face of the Earth.
NOT ALL BELIEVE at the SAME TIME...
NOT ALL are SEALED IN God at the SAME time...
NOT ALL are CALLED UP at the SAME TIME...
Those IN CHRIST NOW.....are ALREADY SEALED....and ARE THE FIRST TO BE CALLED UP, off the face of the Earth.
The JEWS "IN GOD"...(but not Christ), BEGIN believing in CHRSIT...about the OPENING OF THE FIRST SEAL...(four seals have already been OPENED, which BEGAN the 7 year tribulation.
The JEWS sealed by the opening of the FIFTH seal ..... WAIT .... for a "little season" ... which is a "short while"....for their "brethren" (ie OTHER JEWS), to become SEALED in God...."THEN" THEY ARE RISEN UP. (Redeemed).
The 7 Angels BLOW their 7 Trumpets, one at a time....AND "WOES" INCREASE upon the earth, that AFFECT men STILL on the EARTH, AGAINST GOD.
A LAST WARNING IS SOUNDED, BY An ANGEL, spreading the Gospel OF Christ Jesus TO ALL THE WORLD....
ALL Those People, (not having the mark of the Beast) who at the Last Warning BELIEVE IN God IN Christ, SHALL "THEN" be risen up.
MEN Speaking of Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, End-Trib......AS IF, there IS ONLY "ONE" Redemption simply CONFUSE the matter, when they are VOID OF THE FACTS.
Because there ABSOLUTELY "IS"
A Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, near End-Trib, Resurrection and Redemption OF THOSE WHO believe IN God and Christ Jesus.
An INDIVIDUAL SIMPLY must KNOW....his own Standing OF "IF and "WHEN" "he himself" does or does not BECOME SEALED unto God.
Personally, I am ALREADY "SEALED" unto GOD.....Thus, "MY" Separation FROM "all" others NOT yet Sealed unto God....IS just before the 7 year Tribulation Begins.
Me being "caught UP" (RAPTUE) to the Lord, BEFORE the Tribulation Begins...Applies TO me. I am NOT appointed to SUFFER "any" wrath or indignation OF ...
The Lamb of God
Or
Of God.
"The Jews, NOT in Christ, ARE appointed to suffer the wrath of The Lamb of God".
And ANY MAN, rejecting God and Christ Jesus, SHALL suffer the WRATH of the Lamb, the WRATH of God and the Cup of Gods Indignation.
Rev 6
[16] ....the wrath of the Lamb:
Eph 5
[6]... the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Are THEY wHO ARE ALREADY SEALED, and called UP .... rescued FROM the perils to be unloosed upon the earth.
THAT ^ is a LIE. They are NOT writing "their own Bible"....they are BELIEVING the VERY SAME BIBLE, you READ, but that you do not understand.
GOD sealing a man....at ANYTIME, is not for preparation of the great tribulation.
GOD sealing a man....IS FOR that, ANOTHER MAN or ANOTHER SPIRIT, "can not TAKE" that man AWAY from God".
Blathering gobbelygook ^^.
IF YOU want to Preach you are IN CHRIST, and shall REMAIN "THROUGH" the Tribulation.....
That's YOU. But Stop dragging OTHERS who do not AGREE WITH YOU, INTO YOUR MUCK, and using them AS YOUR door mat.
Start PREACHING....WHY the Lord has CALLED "YOU", a man IN CHRIST, to BE Present ON EARTH, "during the Tribulation".
IOW...IF you are going to PREACH YOUR VIEW....SHOW IT WITH SCRIPTURE...that
The Lord Himself IS going to BE "ON EARTH" during the TRIBULATION...and YOU WITH Him "ON EARTH" during the Tribulation.
I have already SHOWN YOU, IN Scripture, WHY that IS NOT TRUE for ME.
I am IN CHRIST, and will BE WITH Christ, IN THE CLOUDS, above the FACE of the EARTH, NOT IN the Great Tribulation....as such there never was SINCE the Beginning, NOR shall ever AGAIN BE.
Scripture Already, dispells your theory...
"it already happened".
Glory to God,
Taken
Oh, I see. There is 7 years of tribulation, but don't call it the 7 year Tribulation. Uhmmm? Who said the Tribulation is not judgement? You?
Stranger
Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
The cup of wrath?
Matthew 20:21-24 KJV
[21] And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. [22] But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able. [23] And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father. [24] And when the ten heard it , they were moved with indignation against the two brethren.
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The snatching up?
Transliteration: harpazō
Pronunciation: har-pad'-zo
Definition: From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away up) pluck pull take (by force).
KJV Usage: catch up (4x), take by force (3x), catch away (2x), pluck (2x), catch (1x), pull (1x).
Jude 1:22-23 KJV
[22] And of some have compassion, making a difference: [23] And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
The word pulling here is the rapture.
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Waiting on him
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Waiting on him
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Waiting on him
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So I’m thinking that what was in that cup that my Lord didn’t want to partake of was indignation. Simply put to lose ones honor,dignity,social status etc. but the Lord says don’t sweat it come on down here and wash some feet,I’ve done it and it’s not that bad a job. You can only go up from here!
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