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Featured GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by marksman, May 9, 2019.

  1. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    I am not addressing gifts outside of the nine gifts of the Spirit in 1 Cor 12. If you want to do that start your own thread.

    And I never said the nine in 1 Cor 12 were the only ones. I said they were the only ones I am dealing with. Just like a lecturer at Bible College if he is going to talk about the miracles in the book of Acts, he doesn't deal with miracles in other books.

    And I haven't denounced any of the other gifts that are recorded in scripture.

    When you are teaching a particular subject as I am, one must avoid red herrings to keep things on track, which I will do and if God tells me to address other gifts I will do that in another thread.
     
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  2. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    If you can see anywhere in my posts that I have said there are only nine throughout the NT then please show me. My leading line does not suggest this. I don't know if you realize it or not but you seem to have the ability to read things into words that are not there.

    "These nine charismas are listed in 1 Corinthians 12. There are other gifts and ministries that are not included in this chapter, such as Ephesians 4:11. These gifts were the province of the ascended Christ to give. It is important to note these are gifts/ministries, not positions."

    What is there about this comment that you do not understand?
     
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  3. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Good heavens... marksman, if you are declaring yourself a teacher, you are way too uptight. I could respond, but it appears you'd likely have a conniption over nothing.
     
  4. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    Good heavens Hidden in Him. You are not very hidden I am afraid as your comments seem to come from someone who is not very sanctified, certainly not Jesus.

    I don't have to declare myself a teacher as the Holy Spirit has already done that. Four men, in four different meetings in four different places all prophecied the same message over me. That I was being invested by the Holy Spirit with the gift of prophetic teaching. How good is that? And who am I to argue.

    And as I am autistic, I don't have conniptions.
     
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  5. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Ok. That explains things little better then. And yes, I am not always as "hidden" as I should be. If you can take a small piece of advice, pray and ask Him to empower you not to overreact and jump to conclusions on people so easily, though. I've had other autistics do it with me and in some cases it kinda ruined our friendship. I meant nothing wrong, but what I said was taken so badly that by the time they were through ripping me up one side and down the other it had changed the relationship for good, whether we liked it or not.

    About this thread, I was simply posting a different point of view. Then your response seemed to contradict the OP, so I was trying to clarify. That got met with... what came off as a pretty resentful response. I wasn't the only one who took the lead sentence in your OP as a blanket statement, given it had no qualifier, but a simple explanation would have been fine. It's not like I was heavily invested or anything, just making conversation.

    Anyway, no harm. But don't let your autism hamper the effectiveness of your calling. Step back from posts when you're interpreting things as confrontational, and wait for the Holy Spirit to tell you what to write and when. I'm trying to do the same.

    Blessings. We'll have some better talks in the future.
     
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  6. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Give God the glory!
     
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  7. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Even if they really are, we certainly are not!
     
  8. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    I am sorry but being autistic I don't do resentful. Emotions are not high on our agenda as we spell it out as we see it without engaging our emotions. as we can't which is what makes us autistic.

    People constantly tell us how to solve our problems, but unless you are autistic yourself, you have no idea what our problems are. Sometimes we don't even understand them ourselves. All we can do is be who we are and muddle through any situation as best we can. I am not going to say God created me this way as I do not believe God is responsible for imperfection. It is a creation of sin (general) in the world that affects all of humanity and people are affected by it in so many different ways.

    And I don't get my exercise by jumping to conclusions as I don't need to as I swim nearly every day in my indoor heated pool. And when I am not doing that I am lifting a few weights in my gym or walking the treadmill.

    And for your information, I don't write unless I get direction by the Holy Spirit who knows I am autistic so he doesn't make me write words that are not influenced by autism. If that happened, it would probably be a total mess.

    By the way, being anointed as a teacher, I often say sufficient to get people thinking and to get them to ask questions, which is good teaching. I prefer not to do all the thinking for them as that is not the best way for them to learn. They learn more when they have to think.
     
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  9. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    No one has said they are exhaustive. What I have said is that I am only dealing with the nine gifts of the Spirit in 1 Cor 12 in this thread. You are most welcome to teach on other gifts but in your own thread.
     
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  10. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    1Co 12:10 and to another, workings of powers, and to another, prophecy, and to another, discerning of spirits, and to another, kinds of languages, and to another, interpretation of languages.

    Moving on we see prophecy listed. Generally, prophecy can be seen throughout scripture in various forms. As we know the birth of Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament (see Isaiah specifically) and other passages of scripture.

    The word prophesy in Greek is propheteia and simply means prediction. A person predicts what is going to happen. For it to be prophesy, it needs to come by the revelation of the Holy Spirit as there is no way of knowing apart from that.

    As an example of prophecy in the New Testament...
    Act 11:27-30 And in these days prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. And one of them named Agabus rising up, he signified through the Spirit that a great famine was about to be over all the habitable earth, which happened in Claudius Caesar's time. And according as any was prospered, the disciples, each of them, determined to send for ministry to those brothers living in Judea, which they also did, sending to the elders through the hand of Barnabas and Saul.

    First, prophets came down from Jerusalem to Antioch. This suggests that the ministry of a prophet was a recognised ministry in the church.

    Second, Agabus spoke through the Spirit. The gift of prophecy in operation.

    Third. The saints gave not a tithe but as anyone prospered, which is the only giving that the NT church recognized and taught.

    Fourth. They sent it to the Elders, not the pastor which indicates pastors did not manage the church.

    In the King James version, it says that people gave according to their ability. Giving 10% may not be according to your ability as you may well be able to give much more.

    This story suggests that when someone prophesies by the Spirit a response is required and the church was expected to act on it which they did as people gave as they prospered. In other words, they gave according to their income. Not a tenth of it but as they prospered which means if my income was a $1,000 dollars and that week I only needed $200, I would send $800.

    If we believe that God meets our needs, we can happily give away $800 knowing that when we have a need he will meet it as he sees fit especially if your giving is in response to prophecy.

    On a personal note, I was made aware of some Christians in India who had their houses burnt to the ground by Hindus and they were appealing for funds to build new houses for them. They said that a new one-room house cost $1,100. So one might say I received a word by the Spirit about this situation.

    On reflection, I decided not to send a tenth ($110). I decided to send $1,100 to pay for a house, plus $50 for credit card fees. This meant that today there is a Christian Family in India that is living in a new house and I was so pleased for them as they had to live under tarpaulins on the street. I had no idea if I could afford the cost but that was not important.

    Church-wise we were having our normal Sunday morning meeting not that they were ever normal and one of the deacons stood and said "There is someone here that the Lord wants to minister to who smokes. I don't know what it relates too but he has given me the number five."

    A few moments silence and then a visitor stood to his feet and said, "That is me. I smoke 5 cigarettes a day every day." So he was prayed for by the laying on of hands and the meeting went on.

    Six months later this same man visited us again. During the meeting, he stood and introduced himself as the 5 cigarettes a day man. He said since the day we had prayed for him he had not smoked a single cigarette. That is what you might call a cold turkey prayer.

    So to sum up. Prophecy comes by the Holy Spirit and if it is directive, the church needs to respond accordingly. True prophecy will always achieve the outcome that is prophesied.

    2Pe 1:20 knowing this first, that every prophecy of Scripture did not come into being of its own interpretation; for prophecy was not at any time borne by the will of man, but being borne along by the Holy Spirit, holy men of God spoke.

    Just a note. Prophecy does not have to be all charismatic and emotional. it can be one person talking to another or a person talking to a group and even a written instruction.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2019 at 11:29 PM
  11. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    I do know one thing and that is you have a gift, maybe more than one.
     
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  12. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Then, why is it that in 27 years, I cannot pinpoint any one thing? I can play guitar but, not at all well. I can sing, but have horrible stage fright. My body is pretty busted up from 2 accidents so, that leaves any heavy labor. I can serve food at Church functions to the elderly but, that is not an ongoing thing. I spend time volunteering at a community center two or three days a week. I find that it is somewhat selfish, although I love the lost who come in there daily but again, There was such a need to be around people on a regular basis that I decided to volunteer...is it because I "initially" just wanted to help the less fortunate? No. It was initially just to have a place to go when I could no longer work and that place has brought me purpose on this earth. I speak to other volunteers as well as the clients about God any opportunity that allows it. I sometimes think that maybe, just maybe I have the gift of faith? Cannot know for sure. I say this because of all the prayers He has answered almost to a T but then, He answers ALL prayer for His children so...scratch that one, lol. I am unable to care for the toddlers or the youngsters (unless their teens or pre-teens) I am unable to either walk fast or run. One running step would have me flat on my face with yet another turned or broken ankle...and we know how those crazy little people run RIGHT into trouble, lol. So...again I wish a sense of humor was a gift of the Spirit. :D Thank you for the reply, @marksman
    In Him Always!
    Nancy
     
  13. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    None of what you have said is a barrier to you experiencing the gifts of the spirit as they are spiritually endowed by the Holy Spirit, not by your ability to function in them. When we read about Paul and all the things that he went through in fulfilling his apostolic ministry would make many of us give up before we started but he did not back down as he was anointed to fulfill that ministry.

    One can discern from a hospital bed. One can prophesy in a conversation with another person. One can have knowledge and convey it anywhere. One can lay hands on someone anywhere. I have discovered that unbelievers may not be interested in the church or religion but they will accept an offer to pray for them.

    And don't worry about your motives as they will be sorted out as you go along. Most of what I have learned has not come out of a book, even the Bible. That gives me the plan but I have to put it into action to find out how it all works. Guess how I learned to prophesy? By prophesying.

    So, go get them!!!
     
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  14. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Lol....Im'a prayin and a waitin! Then, maybe He does not WANT me to know my gift? Would it try to puff me up? Hmmm...sure do wish I had one, one that I KNEW was directly from Him. I have repented of my initial motives with my volunteering, I do feel freer (free-er?) now. There is no condemnation now, just a knowing that I am where He wants me to be...for now. Thanks Marksman.
    And yes, it is pretty strange that the unsaved will let us pray for or with them. That tells me that they KNOW there is something wayyyy bigger than us but, maybe think it impossible for them to become a believer. Lot of cavalier answers I get from some of them like, "nah, I'm goin to Hell to be with all my friends" then they give a little laugh. That kind of attitude bothers me deeply as, they do not understand at all. There is NO end to prayer.
    God Bless,
    nancy
     
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  15. Berserk

    Berserk Active Member

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    Marksman: "Generally, prophecy can be seen throughout scripture in various forms. As we know the birth of Jesus was prophesied in the Old Testament (see Isaiah specifically) and other passages of scripture.
    The word prophesy in Greek is propheteia and simply means prediction. A person predicts what is going to happen. For it to be prophesy, it needs to come by the revelation of the Holy Spirit as there is no way of knowing apart from that."

    No, though prophets do predict the future, so do other gifts and genres like "the word of knowledge" or apocalyptic. The central part of the prophet's function is to exercise divine jurisdiction over the conditions of divine forgiveness and redemptive security. Put differently, a prophet's primary role is to address this question: Is a church's apparent spirituality truly a manifestation of the inward spiritual reality? There is a widespread consensus for this conception of "prophecy" in the early church and the Judaism of late antiquity. It took me 452 pages to track down all these explications of the gift in my Harvard doctoral thesis, which was recommended for publication, but I never published it because editors thought it was too highly technical for a popular audience.

    You can see this conception of prophecy in Paul's description in 1 Cor 14:24-25 of the exercise of this gift in church. The "secrets of the visitor's heart are laid bare" and he is "called to account" by the prophetic word, so that he realizes God is speaking and he needs to repent. Each of the 7 letters in Revelation fit the pattern of a widespread prophetic speech form and they fulfill the role of prophecy by exposing the true condition of each church and instructing them on what they must do to retain their redemptive securityl

    marksman: "Just a note. Prophecy does not have to be all charismatic and emotional. it can be one person talking to another or a person talking to a group and even a written instruction."

    In my dissertion on this gift I trace the unique application of the above definition in the 4 major regions surrounding the Mediterranean. For example, in Egypt and North Africa in the first 3 Christian centuries, the emphasis was placed on prophetic insight or discernment rather than on ecstatic prophetic speech. In most areas early Christians believed in the prophethood of all believers and the OT prooftexts for the democratization of this gift were Numbers 11:29 for early Egyptian and North African Christianity and Joel 2:28 elsewhere. Paul's wish that every believer would prophesy echoes Moses' wish that "all the Lord's people were prophets and that He would put His Spirit on them (11:29 alluded to in 1 Cor 14:5)." The ancient rabbis claimed that Moses' wish would be fulfilled when the Messiah comes. So Christians applied this rabbinic view to the availability of the prophetic charism for every believer. btw, Paul has his eye on Numbers 11-12 also in 1 Cor. 13:12, which alludes to the Septuagint version of Numbers 12:7-8.
     
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  16. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    Good on ya Nancy and always remember Gal 6:9 and in the doing good we may not be faint-hearted, for at the proper time we shall reap—not desponding; (Youngs Literal Translation)

    And yes, for some people it does puff them up but I can't see it happening with you.
     
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  17. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    So what do we make of discerning of spirits?

    The word discerning means judicial estimation so there is a legal aspect to it as in judicial. And note it is an estimation, not a specific yes or no.

    Again spirit is pneuma, meaning a current of air. This suggests that in discerning of the spirit you are not discerning flesh and blood but something in the supernatural realm.

    A good example is discerning a Jezebel Spirit which is a controlling spirit. It is a mistake to think that the person is controlling. Rather that the Jezebel Spirit is controlling through that person. That does not necessarily absolve the person of the fact because they may have a desire naturally to control which can lead to the spirit working through them.

    In one church I was in the minister had this fixation of controlling everything. Nothing could happen unless he had given his say so for it. I discovered that he wanted information so he could control. He eventually was sacked because he was squeezing the life out of the church.

    One can discern a spirit of all sorts of things as in one case I was involved in I discerned a spirit of incest. Whilst the lady concerned was born again and went about her daily living, this spirit controlled everything she did as it had to be fed through the hurt and pain she had suffered.

    It is the same with abortion. The person got rid of the baby they did not want, but they don't get rid of the influence behind the killing. I have read a book of testimonies of women who have had an abortion and 20 years later they are suffering the effects of it. One woman would burst out crying if she was in the same room as a baby.

    A major spirit that is at work in the world today is the spirit of rejection, mainly due to the break up of the family. I read that 60% of all black children grew up without a father. When a person has a spirit of rejection, everything is filtered through it. Derek Prince once said that he was of the opinion that 50% of pastors were there because of rejection as it gave them kudos which they needed to feel worth something.

    If you have had rejection and been delivered from it as I have, you can see it a mile away in people. When we moved to Australia which is a rejected nation because the whites who colonized it rejected the Aboriginal inhabitants that were already there and the whites who colonized were mainly criminals who had been rejected by their own nation, rejection was the name of the game.

    When we were looking for a church to settle in, after the meeting we would look at each other and say "rejection" which was apparent in the preacher.

    If God calls you to a ministry of deliverance from rejection, you are going to be kept very busy.

    The church likes to think that everything is hunkey dory in the world and does not need to get involved in the spirit world but that could not be further from the truth. If Satan controls this world we have no choice but to get involved. Satan wants us to believe that he does not exist and when we do that it gives him free rein to wreak havoc.

    This is why the gift of discernment is so important because through it you can see what is not obvious as it is in the spirit world and deal with it accordingly.

    What is that verse "But if I cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come unto you." Matthew 12:28. This might suggest that if you do not cast out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom has not come to you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019 at 12:13 AM
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  18. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Can this Jezebel spirit work in the lives of non-Christians? If it can I think I know somebody who has it. @Nancy I think you may know who I'm talking about. What do you think.
     
  19. marksman

    marksman My eldest granddaughter showing the result of her

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    Satan wants to control so he will use anyone who will let him control through them. I have noticed that the spirit is very prevalent amongst women. I think it has something to do with the fact that God has made man head of the family and the church.

    Another thing Derek Prince said was that there is a Jezebel spirit in every Pentecostal church. Interesting since he said that, the Pentecostal church has adopted husband and wife leadership, so if that is the case, the first place I would look is the pastor's wife.

    I use to be a full-on Baptist and in those days, the husband was the pastor and his wife was the leader of the women's fellowship, automatically. No Jezebel spirits there.
     
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2019 at 12:35 PM
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  20. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    The young woman I mentioned has a controlling personality, feels that she was rejected by her mother who walked out when she was a child and has fairly recently been to consult clairvoyants. She is my son's ex and he left because he couldn't stand being controlled and manipulated but there is a small child involved and she is now using the child as a weapon to get at the father. She is not a believer. Please pray for her if you feel led, she's called Rachel. It's spiritual warfare.
     
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