The Barbarian;72877]It seems to me that II Peter 3:9 makes it very clear that God creates no one with the intention of sending them to eternal punishment.That is a choice people make for themselves said:
God does not drag all....
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Do you say that because you think God decides whether or not we believe, or because in an ultimate sense you cannot will against God (although in a limited sense we can)?
If you can't deal with scriptures, don't post then, as it is absolutely against the LOVING nature of the true God... not some mumbo jumbo style of god, according to your fallacy of your mindset.Benoni;73114 said:
WhiteKnuckle
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Romans 1:20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: I can't claim to completely understand the doctrine of election. I'm fairly uncertain whether people are chosen to believe and others are chosen not to believe. There's scriptures that seem to point towards both. I don't know if my interpretation is correct, or if I'm just trying to feel better about it and not worry that I may be decieved and only thinking I'm saved. (Which I believe the latter is only a trick of demons trying to make me give up) But, what it seems to me is that there are those who are Chosen, Saul as an example. Jesus came to him personaly and blinded him and revealed His glory to him. Then changed his name to Paul. While others it took a little convincing, from one conversation to maybe days of preaching before it got through. That's evident with the arguments Paul ended up having with the Jews from time to time. Also the learning curve is evident in Paul having to explain things over and over again. It seems there are those who are of the "elect" and chosen for a specific purpose and the Lord revealed Himself to them without any man talking to them. And there are those who "find" salvation. Either by tragedy, or someone presenting a good case for the Gospel. Jesus telling the one man, "That's right, you could not have believed unless it was revealed to you by the Father in Heaven.." May not mean exactly everyone, it seems it was specificaly that one man. There's also other verses in the Bible where the Lord talks about the reason people were scattered,, so they would search for Him. By this verse I gave, it certainly seems to me that if everyone is without excuse, then the Lord has revealed that He is there to everyone. It's up to everyone to search for Him. If someone is truely searching they'll find him. "Seek and you shall find! Knock and the door will be opened to you!"In the same sense, there are those who were given the Gospel and they decided, that's not what they wanted, and some of them were turned over to depraved minds, because that's exactly what they wanted. They didn't want to repent, they didn't want to see that they were sinning, and they didn't want to turn from it. Seems to me, that there's actually an elect and chosen, and those who believe through other means of finding the Lord.
WhiteKnuckle
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Yes the scriptures do, but i question if the poster of them does since he or she does not understand the sense of them..WhiteKnuckle;73139 said:
Hi savedbygraces, are you trying to convince us that God has only an elect, "144000", That will make it to heaven and be saved. That is a JW belief and false. It contradicts nearly every scripture in the bible and His character. in His Love
Not really. No fallacy or mind set. NO where I mean no where in the Bible does it say man has a freewill or choice when it comes to salvation; how can I produce one scripture to something that is not there. Now I can produce a scripture that declares to the contrary. Beside God is not calling all men now.
mj asked:
Yes but thats a spiritual number to denote a group that no man can number.. rev 7: 9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; The 144000 is the same group but from a different perspective, in other words, the 144000 denotes the complted salvation of all of Gods elect, but they are comprised of not literal jewish tribes, but of people of all ethnic groups, the Israel of God.. But in any case, salvation is for a set limited number of people from the foundation and cannot be altered one way ot the other.. Jesus said: matt 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Hi agn but that conrtradicts this scripture.1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 1Ti 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.In His Love
mjrhealth;73289]Hi agn but that conrtradicts this scripture. 1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved said:
I definately have free will. I could have chosen not to read this. I could have chosen not to respond here. I could have chosen not to access this forum or even operate my computer. Yet here I am only because of the choices I have made. GOD Bless.
