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So if someone gets saved but for lack of teaching does not get baptized, then Romans and the truths it contains are not applicable to them? I prYyou do not misunderstand me. I am not arguing against the need for baptism. I am putting forth the truth that multitudes have simply had a ritual performed with no faith as to what the purpose of that ritual is. If that be the case, are they truly being baptized?To qualify for Romans one must go through Acts 2:38.
It is not a coincidence in the order the N.T. was placed for the reader, but deliberately done....Acts before Romans etc.
Saved before baptism?So if someone gets saved but for lack of teaching does not get baptized, then Romans and the truths it contains are not applicable to them? I prYyou do not misunderstand me. I am not arguing against the need for baptism. I am putting forth the truth that multitudes have simply had a ritual performed with no faith as to what the purpose of that ritual is. If that be the case, are they truly being baptized?
We must be careful not to just judge just on outer appearance so we can check off the box marked GET BAPTIZED. God looks at the heart of the believer. Amen?
blessings,
Gids
If water baptism was essential for salvation, why would Paul write in 1 Corinthians 1:14 "I thank God that I baptized none of you"?
That would mean that he's thanking God for not bringing converts all the way to Christ.
No, he was thanking God for letting others do the baptizing, so they would not think they were "of Paul".If water baptism was essential for salvation, why would Paul write in 1 Corinthians 1:14 "I thank God that I baptized none of you"?
That would mean that he's thanking God for not bringing converts all the way to Christ.
Those are exceptions.You are correct.
I know that United Pentecostals believe otherwise.
They also believe you need to be speaking in tongues in order to be saved.
(I attended there for some time)
Fact is that many people don't have the opportunity to get water baptized,
for instance in hospitals.
The fellow next to Christ on the cross did not get baptized.
This is it: Believe upon the name of the Lord and you shall be saved.
However....To “believe in the Lord Jesus Christ” is much more than intellectual assent to the fact that He existed; it means that you place your trust, your faith, your expectant hope for being saved in who Jesus is and what He did for you.
You were born again at Baptism, per Jesus (John 3:5).Sorry Reggie, but here is how it happened to me in 1980.
In this order:
1. Born again.
2. Couple of months later Holy Spirit baptism with speaking in tongues.
3. Some time later: Water baptism.
I prefer UPC as my home church.You are correct.
I know that United Pentecostals believe otherwise.
They also believe you need to be speaking in tongues in order to be saved.
(I attended there for some time)
Fact is that many people don't have the opportunity to get water baptized,
for instance in hospitals.
The fellow next to Christ on the cross did not get baptized.
This is it: Believe upon the name of the Lord and you shall be saved.
However....To “believe in the Lord Jesus Christ” is much more than intellectual assent to the fact that He existed; it means that you place your trust, your faith, your expectant hope for being saved in who Jesus is and what He did for you.
So anyone who is not baptized is not saved. That is your belief?Saved before baptism?
Jesus said ..."and is baptized shall be saved".(Mark 16:16)
Peter said.... "be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins".(Acts 2:38)
Romans is an Epistle.
An Epistle is a letter to post salvation saints, not sinners.
Modern Christendom began skipping Acts centuries ago to get a "revival" crowd.
They read the 4 gospels to the crowds, skipped Acts, then gave sinners the saints' letters to read.
This is precisely how Christendom derailed during the reformation.
Yes.So anyone who is not baptized is not saved. That is your belief?
Just trying to clarify.
thanks,
Gideon
No, Cornelius and kin were led to salvation by the Spirit of truth they just received, to lead them into all truth, when they were immediately baptized.Salvation finds place on the moment we receive the spirit of God and are reborn in our spirit. You cannot state that he who is reborn into a new man and made spiritual alive through the Holy Spirit through faith, but is not yet baptized will therefore not be saved?
I was radically saved in 1980 and reborn out of a deep place of darkness in the world. My spirit came alive in Christ Jesus through the Holy Spirit, this was an incredible experience for me suddenly i communicated with God and experienced His love and presence inside of me, My live was from one moment upon the other transformed into a new man. But only later i was baptized in water.You would say that if I would have died in a car accident between it, I would not be saved?
Cornelius and his friends were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues before they were baptized in water (Acts 10:44-48). And if we read John 14:17 Jesus states that an unbeliever cannot receive the Holy Ghost, so with other words Cornelius and his friends must have been born again and been saved before their water baptism.
Ahhhh, yes, the "Cornelius" argument.Salvation finds place on the moment we receive the spirit of God and are reborn in our spirit. You cannot state that he who is reborn into a new man and made spiritual alive through the Holy Spirit through faith, but is not yet baptized will therefore not be saved?
I was radically saved in 1980 and reborn out of a deep place of darkness in the world. My spirit came alive in Christ Jesus through the Holy Spirit, this was an incredible experience for me suddenly i communicated with God and experienced His love and presence inside of me, My live was from one moment upon the other transformed into a new man. But only later i was baptized in water.You would say that if I would have died in a car accident between it, I would not be saved?
Cornelius and his friends were filled with the Holy Ghost and spoke in tongues before they were baptized in water (Acts 10:44-48). And if we read John 14:17 Jesus states that an unbeliever cannot receive the Holy Ghost, so with other words Cornelius and his friends must have been born again and been saved before their water baptism.
Your doctrinal view of Acts 2:38...Ahhhh, yes, the "Cornelius" argument.
Once again, I must warn you - NEVER base your doctrines on the exception. Being born again is NOT about how we "feel". It is about having new life in Christ - on HIS terms.
Jesus 's command is that WATER and Spirit is what makes us born again. It's NOT up to US to deviate from HIS command.
Jesus has a response for those who believe that it is THEIR way or the highway . . .
Matt. 7:23
‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
My doctrinal view on Acts 2:39 includes the next verse as well:Your doctrinal view of Acts 2:38...
Then Peter said to the adults that were baptized as babies, repent, and get rebaptized in the titles for the remission of sins you had since your infant baptism.
Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential for salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."
If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the 1 requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? *BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.
John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. I believe Jesus.
All right..... You would say that if I would have died in a car accident between it, I would not be saved? And a member of Cornelius family who died between the two events would also be lost.
I would say my God is a just God.....
Nope.All right..... You would say that if I would have died in a car accident between it, I would not be saved? And a member of Cornelius family who died between the two events would also be lost.
I would say my God is a just God.....