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APAK

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Sorry, APAK, but you are mistaken. Joshua is called "Jesus" in the book of Hebrews because the Greek there is Iesous". But what is the name "Joshua" in Hebrew? Is it not Yehoshua, which is equal to Yeshua or Yahshua?

'[Joshua] From the Hebrew name יְהוֹשֻׁעַ (Yehoshu'a) meaning "YAHWEH is salvation", from the roots יְהוֹ (yeho) referring to the Hebrew God and יָשַׁע (yasha') meaning "to save". As told in the Old Testament, Joshua was a companion of Moses."

Meaning, origin and history of the name Joshua

I believe the King James translators went too far in transliterating the Greek equivalents of the Hebrew names, instead of TRANSLATING them based upon the Hebrew text. "Jesus" should really be Yehoshua (and today He is called Yeshua or Yahshua by Messianics). And Yehoshua means exactly what I said: GOD IS [OUR] SALVATION.
Enoch:
Just let me place a footnote on this subject for further thought and discussion if you want. Not required of course...Yes, there are many places of information in reference, in Books and on the internet that casually state that Jesus is derived for Joshua. It is really not true I’m afraid. And yes, Joshua does mean ‘YAH saves’ as you said because it is derived from Yeshua..etc.


These misdirected main-stream folks, draw from the same spoiled well of truth, claiming a direct relationship. However, they can never show their ‘work.’ They cannot show you the direct relationship because there is none. It just ‘sounds’ true and no one questions it.


Yes, Joshua, as an English world is a derivation of the intended Hebrew meaning Yeshua or YAH saves, as you pointed out. However, Jesus is derived strictly for the common Greek and then early Latin languages of ‘Iesous.’ The Greek and Latin never even used the form for the Hebrew Yeshua to later develop the English word, Joshua into their translations. If this were the case, you should have these Greek and Latin words today; they are missing. If they created them then you could say that the word Jesus is derived for a Greek and Latin world for Joshua/Yeshua. They just never gave Yeshua a corresponding native word.


And as you said, Bibles should have kept the Hebrew for the Son of God and even God Almighty.


Acts 7:45 speaks of the son of Nun, Joshua, not the Greek/Latin word Iesous for Jesus. The major Catholic (DR) and Protestant (KJV) Bibles inserted the wrong name, Jesus. About 60 percent of the Bibles today however have it right and keep the Hebrew derivation, Joshua. The same error is found in Heb 4:8


And from a couple of ‘reliable’ reference sources…there are many more of course

Encyclopedia Americana:

"Jesus Christ--- ...Although Matthew (1:21) interprets the name originally Joshua, that is, 'Yahweh is Salvation,' and finds it specially appropriate for Jesus of Nazareth, it was a common one at that time." (Vol.16, p. 41)

Encyclopedia Britannica (15th ed.)

"Jesus Christ---...The same is true of the name Jesus. In the Septuagint it is the customary Greek form for the common Hebrew name Joshua;" (Vol. 10 p.149)

They just went ahead and used the word Jesus as being the same as Joshua because they found it appropriate and that is was customary in the Greek, then in English of course, to use it. When all the ‘dust’ settles down, with all the neat rationale that is presented, this is essentially their bare-bones basis of truth – an empty bucket with a hole at its base.


Ie-sous means ‘Hail Zeus’ in Greek, and the Romans followed suit with it. There is no way getting around this fact. Joshua saves by its Hebrew origin and meaning, Jesus does not by its original Greek form.


You know the Romanists and the Greeks did not take kindly to the Judeans/Jews in the early centuries. And pagan ideas were prevalent. It is logical then why they threw out the Hebrew word of salvation and brought in their own god for the purpose of bringing salvation to the pagans. They took to it likes honey to a bee.

Here are some Greek words that you may also be familiar with:

Tarsus means the sweat of Zeus

Dionysus means the son of Zeus

Jesus means Hail Zeus


For another discussion, the English word ‘God’ is also a pagan derivation as well…….

Bless you,

APAK
 
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marks

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I saw her speak. I was, I think, 13 or 14. She came to the private school I was in. I've never forgotten her.

She lived just a few miles from me, and my pastor was hers at the time. He told us that she had become bedridden, and was getting dejected that she couldn't travel any longer to share this message.

He told her even though she couldn't go, she could pray. And, from what I know, pray is what she did!

Much love!
 
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marks

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Just want to point out a small although often overlooked name for Yeshua that does make a big difference. The recent modern English 16th-17th century word, Jesus, is not derived from a Hebrew origin. It is derived from the Latin and Greek 'Iesous' and this word does not mean Yah Saves or Saviour. Therefore, Jesus is not equivalent to Yeshua or Yahshua etc. The Greek for saviour is soter and the Latin is salvare. So, YHWH's Son is technically not Jesus, it is Yahshua or Yeshua as he became the anointed one and the Yashua Messiah or Christ, not Jesus the Christ.

Now for the real bombshell: Jesus, derived from Ie-s-ous or Ie-se-us of the Greek and Latin languages is said to be equivalent to the Greek god Zeus.

Bless you,

APAK

Apak, do you have disagreement with the angel?

Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins."

Much love!
 
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tzcho2

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Doing Apologetics in an Anti-Apologetics Age. Pastor Voddie Baucham

 

Helen

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I saw her speak. I was, I think, 13 or 14. She came to the private school I was in. I've never forgotten her.

She lived just a few miles from me, and my pastor was hers at the time. He told us that she had become bedridden, and was getting dejected that she couldn't travel any longer to share this message.

He told her even though she couldn't go, she could pray. And, from what I know, pray is what she did!

Much love!

Amen!

Prayer is probably the greatest gift that we have to give.
When in our 20's we took an old lady to the little Church, our pastor told us that we "needed that ministry". We did this for 10 years , by then she was in her 90's...and could no longer come out of her little place. But we continued to visit. She ended up in a care home ( not sure how much "care" there was!!)
We often found her laying in a wet or soiled diaper. :(
I'd do her laundry. She never wanted to chit-chat even though we knew she didn't have many visitors. She would always close her eyes and pray starting- "DEAR HEAVENLY FATHER...." for such a tiny thing, she had a powerful anointing when she prayed..the hair would stand up on the nap of our necks. we felt we were right there in the very presence of God ( and we were)

Thats all she could do all day...lay and pray aloud.

One thing that we will always have is P R A Y E R.
 

marks

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Amen!

Prayer is probably the greatest gift that we have to give.
When in our 20's we took an old lady to the little Church, our pastor told us that we "needed that ministry". We did this for 10 years , by then she was in her 90's...and could no longer come out of her little place. But we continued to visit. She ended up in a care home ( not sure how much "care" there was!!)
We often found her laying in a wet or soiled diaper. :(
I'd do her laundry. She never wanted to chit-chat even though we knew she didn't have many visitors. She would always close her eyes and pray starting- "DEAR HEAVENLY FATHER...." for such a tiny thing, she had a powerful anointing when she prayed..the hair would stand up on the nap of our necks. we felt we were right there in the very presence of God ( and we were)

Thats all she could do all day...lay and pray aloud.

One thing that we will always have is P R A Y E R.

Something a friend of mine said to me once, " . . . and then I realized I'm having a conversation with the Creator of the universe!"
 

amadeus

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My solution is that in order to be right it must be based on objective Truth which is based in God and His revealed word.
Where we would probably differ is in the determination of "objective" truth and what His revealed Word would be.

If we were both right by that standard, there would be no error,... no 'might be' in error.

The "no error" result in the things of God would not, as I see it, and cannot come through the objectiveness of a man's search even through the scriptures without the lead of the Holy Ghost.
Why live in Grayland where there are no distinct right and wrongs and most categories are blurred due to our sin nature?
I would say rather that right vision is blurred as a person quenches the Holy Spirit within him. The Grayland/darkened glass will never get clearer by presuming that human logic is equal to the Holy Spirit... or that following human logic or the scientific method will bring us closer to God than allowing ourselves to be led by the Holy Spirit. If that were so then the most logical and scientific people would by moving in their directions be closer to God than those who lean on God rather than on themselves and their own abilities:

"O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jerem 10:23

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:5-6


"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26
God wants us to live by faith...

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Heb 11:1)

In Grayland there is neither assurance or conviction.

But God wants us to live by faith in Him rather than by faith in ourselves and what our minds can figure out and conclude based on our innate ability or IQ.
 

Nancy

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I saw her speak. I was, I think, 13 or 14. She came to the private school I was in. I've never forgotten her.

She lived just a few miles from me, and my pastor was hers at the time. He told us that she had become bedridden, and was getting dejected that she couldn't travel any longer to share this message.

He told her even though she couldn't go, she could pray. And, from what I know, pray is what she did!

Much love!

Awesome! And to think of how little many Christians pray. It's no wonder it is the most powerful gift God has given us!
It has been way too long since I have read my fave book of hers "The Hiding Place"!
One of my favorite quotes of hers: "Ten Boom defended her work, saying that in the eyes of God, a mentally disabled person might be more valuable "than a watchmaker. Or a lieutenant."
 
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APAK

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Apak, do you have disagreement with the angel?

Matthew 1:21 "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins."

Much love!
Huh, you got me, what are talking about? You have you been reading what I have said or are you just winging it? You know I was speaking about the origin of the English word Jesus, right?

Matthew 1:21 you presented, with the word Jesus as in any verse where Jesus is used would never have been understood by the angel, apostle or 'Jesus' himself. He would not recognize his name as Jesus. The angel would never have voiced a Greek pagan name! That's the point mate!

Now believing Jesus is the Messiah to you or anyone else, is fine. Your heart knows the Son of God in your heart is the Messiah and to you Jesus. May YHWH and his Son the Christ be with you...

The two key points again: Yashua, Yehoshua or even Joshua or even another version of Joshua would be known to the Son of God in his time, not the Greek pagan Jesus, of Zeus. The Bible should have kept his Hebrew/Aramaic true name.


Great Day!

APAK
 

marks

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Awesome! And to think of how little many Christians pray. It's no wonder it is the most powerful gift God has given us!
It has been way too long since I have read my fave book of hers "The Hiding Place"!
One of my favorite quotes of hers: "Ten Boom defended her work, saying that in the eyes of God, a mentally disabled person might be more valuable "than a watchmaker. Or a lieutenant."
We have a mentally disabled man in our weekly study group. I'm convinced!
 
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marks

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Huh, you got me, what are talking about? You have you been reading what I have said or are you just winging it? You know I was speaking about the origin of the English word Jesus, right?

Matthew 1:21 you presented, with the word Jesus as in any verse where Jesus is used would never have been understood by the angel, apostle or 'Jesus' himself. He would not recognize his name as Jesus. The angel would never have voiced a Greek pagan name! That's the point mate!

Now believing Jesus is the Messiah to you or anyone else, is fine. Your heart knows the Son of God in your heart is the Messiah and to you Jesus. May YHWH and his Son the Christ be with you...

The two key points again: Yashua, Yehoshua or even Joshua or even another version of Joshua would be known to the Son of God in his time, not the Greek pagan Jesus, of Zeus. The Bible should have kept his Hebrew/Aramaic true name.


Great Day!

APAK

I'm sorry, I though you were taking issue with "Iesous", from which the KJV transliterated as Jesus, that was when J was pronounce as Y, making the 1611 pronounciation, "Ya-sus", a seeming good approximation of the Iesous in Greek.

Ie-sous means ‘Hail Zeus’ in Greek, and the Romans followed suit with it. There is no way getting around this fact. Joshua saves by its Hebrew origin and meaning, Jesus does not by its original Greek form.

So my question was, what about when the angel told Joseph,

Matthew 1:20-21 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."

καὶ καλέσεις τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦν

Same word as Iesous, and same as Iesou, from which comes "Jesu", still seen in some readings and hymns.

Much love!
 

marks

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The two key points again: Yashua, Yehoshua or even Joshua or even another version of Joshua would be known to the Son of God in his time, not the Greek pagan Jesus, of Zeus. The Bible should have kept his Hebrew/Aramaic true name.

You know the NT was written in Greek, of course you do. Do you then think these parts that say this Name were not inspired?
 

prism

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Where we would probably differ is in the determination of "objective" truth and what His revealed Word would be.
Let's start here.
What to you is objective truth and why can't His written Word illumined by His Spirit be sufficient in revealing it?
 
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APAK

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You know the NT was written in Greek, of course you do. Do you then think these parts that say this Name were not inspired?
Ok, I will now reply with a little prejudice since you are evidently trying to somehow deliberately minimize or discount, out of hand the utility of my writings on this subject. Why, you only know that answer, not I.

Good luck marks if you think non-original written scripture is actually all faithfully inspired. Good luck with that type of thinking.

The original parchments and scrolls were of course ALL inspired. I would not count on all the translations and copies into various languages, as being inspired or even intellectually honest in many placed in these scriptures. I guess you believe they all were.?. Can I say you might be a little naive if you do believe today's KJV or DR or NIV etc, are all inspired. And I'm not trying to be insulting with it in any way or insulting you in the process.

All the best to you,

Blessings

APAK
 

marks

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Ok, I will now reply with a little prejudice since you are evidently trying to somehow deliberately minimize or discount, out of hand the utility of my writings on this subject. Why, you only know that answer, not I.

Take it as you will, APAK, my intention is to question you regarding your assertion.

You want to throw in some "prejudice", that's up to you.

I pointed out that the NT was written in Greek, and the Greek Name given by the angel for our savior was Iesous.

You've posted a lot of information, I've responded with Scripture. If you see that as attemting to minimize or discount, then that is your perception, but why do you project that onto me?

I'm asking the question if you feel there is some issue with the inspiration on these parts.

Good luck marks if you think non-original written scripture is actually all faithfully inspired. Good luck with that type of thinking.

Sounds like you are saying we can't trust the Bible. Is that what you mean to express?

The original parchments and scrolls were of course ALL inspired. I would not count on all the translations and copies into various languages, as being inspired or even intellectually honest in many placed in these scriptures. I guess you believe they all were.?. Can I say you might be a little naive if you do believe today's KJV or DR or NIV etc, are all inspired. And I'm not trying to be insulting with it in any way or insulting you in the process.

Did I say anything about translations being inspired? Or is that a Straw Man? Love to hear your answer!

Anyway . . . I'm going to stick with what the angel said.

Much love!
Mark
 

APAK

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I'm sorry, I though you were taking issue with "Iesous", from which the KJV transliterated as Jesus, that was when J was pronounce as Y, making the 1611 pronounciation, "Ya-sus", a seeming good approximation of the Iesous in Greek.



So my question was, what about when the angel told Joseph,

Matthew 1:20-21 "But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."

καὶ καλέσεις τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Ἰησοῦν

Same word as Iesous, and same as Iesou, from which comes "Jesu", still seen in some readings and hymns.

Much love!

You are thinking and writing around, or over or under me...bad communications...the angel is correct marks...enough ..you barking up the wrong tree here....you just don't get it

Figure it out marks. I have given you some insights and you have not understood it yet. You are still believing Iesus or Jesus means YAH saves. That is your first mistake. Joshua is the closest to an English name for Jesus that actually means YAH saves...

Don't sweat it marks. Have a great day.

APAK
 

marks

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Figure it out marks. I have given you some insights and you have not understood it yet. You are still believing Iesus or Jesus means YAH saves.

I'm not trying to interpret the name here. You are saying that's not the name for our savior, I'm saying it's the name the angel told Joseph to give to Him.

Unless I've misunderstood you.

I thought you were saying "jesus" really means hail zeus, and we are all unsaved under that name. Isn't that right?

If not, my apologies!

Much love!
 

APAK

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I'm not trying to interpret the name here. You are saying that's not the name for our savior, I'm saying it's the name the angel told Joseph to give to Him.

Unless I've misunderstood you.

I thought you were saying "jesus" really means hail zeus, and we are all unsaved under that name. Isn't that right?

If not, my apologies!

Much love!
Ok I see your concern because Jesus or Ie-sus means hail zeus from the Greek langauge. I would not worry about that marks. I too use the term Jesus, although I know the Hebrew or Aramaic name of Jesus that the angel spoke is all important. However, the angel did not speak the name Greek/English name Jesus/Iesus. YHWH/the Almighty, named his Son using part of his his own name (Yahweh/YHWH) - Yah-shua or a variant of it.

Blessings to you,

APAK
 

marks

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Ok I see your concern because Jesus or Ie-sus means hail zeus from the Greek langauge. I would not worry about that marks. I too use the term Jesus, although I know the Hebrew or Aramaic name of Jesus that the angel spoke is all important. However, the angel did not speak the name Greek/English name Jesus/Iesus. YHWH/the Almighty, named his Son using part of his his own name (Yahweh/YHWH) - Yah-shua or a variant of it.

Blessings to you,

APAK
So you go with an Hebrew or Aramaic book of Matthew that was then translated into Greek? Jsut wondering.

I don't have an issue with assuming His Name in Hebrew was Yah-shua or something like it, just that there is no Scriptural authority per se, but you can make a case, but the real authority is in calling Him Jesus.

Much love!