Good Works Vs Works Of The Law

[mailmandan]

Your obsession against NON OSASers noted and rejected! Satan granted you a license to sin! Not God!

Another straw-man argument from a disturbed agitator.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony*

 

[kcnalp]

Another straw-man argument from a disturbed agitator.

Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-26).

Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not based on the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies does not remain alone (unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-26). *Perfect Harmony* View attachment 15149

Ok let me try again. If you don't have Christian works you are not a Christian, no matter what Satan's OSAS myth says.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Its clear to me Jesus was talking to people in general. Jesus never once indicated a difference between jew and gentiles there.

He said follow the commandments...period.

No, Jesus' ministry was to the Jews under the law. He taught God's grace from the text of the Torah and was called Rabbi by His peers.
24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matthew 15:24

5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 10:5-6

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do Matthew 23:1-3
So do you avoid wearing mixed fabrics of clothing, offer up blood sacrifices, participate in the feasts and sacred assemblies, etc? All these things only applied to the Jews and those few gentiles that converted from paganism to Judaism. The gentiles weren't even allowed to enter the inner court of the temple under penalty of death. When trying to understand scripture, context is the first consideration, anything else is just poor scholarship.

 

[MatthewG]

Thank God for Freedom.

If believers were not given freedom; what a hellish world we would live in.

 

[Hidden In Him]

2. Problem with trying to parse "works of Law" and "good works" this way (one results in eternal life, one doesn't) is there is a lot of overlap in the works (within "good works", for instance, "no covetous man has any inheritance in God's Kingdom" and Paul even has Timothy circumcised).

Yes, but only circumcised for the sake of becoming all things unto all men that they might reach some (in this case the Jews), not because they were still placing them under Jewish ceremonial law.

Let's go straight to the master for this:
7 And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, ‘Come at once and sit down to eat’? 8 But will he not rather say to him, ‘Prepare for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink’? 9 Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. 10 So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, ‘We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.’ ” Luke 17:7-10
Seems to me that the Lord is saying here that we were created to follow His commandments, to do what is right, and doing what is required of you is not meritorious. In other words, we should do good because we were created to do good and failure to do so is failure to meet the purpose for which we were created. I'm pretty sure that this is where the idea comes from for sins of "omission."
We shouldn't feed the notion that performing the ordinances of the law and obeying the prohibitions was in some way meritorious. Doing what is required of you is never meritorious.
We also tend to think of our sacrifices as meritorious, but what can you give God that He hasn't already given you except thanks and praise?

This is an excellent text to bring up in this context. For me, however, the text speaks of the relationship that Grace puts us in as believers. We are expected to perform good works or we are not true servants to the Master, and not fit to be His servants. But the works are not some astonishing thing we have performed or ever will, but rather simply what was expected of us as His servants. This passage was spoken to the disciples, not the Jews, so it is still binding upon all Christians today.

The Law was never binding on anyone but Jews Romans 2:12 Romans 2:14---Jews are released from their obligation to serve by Law when they die Romans 7:1-6 and Talmud Niddah 61b. Gentiles ought never have been brought under Law at all after having been saved--it was a false Gospel.

Agreed. The Galatian heresy was the same as was being foisted upon the Corinthians (2 Corinthians 11:13-15). False apostles, i.e. Judaisers, were entering congregations and leading people astray into keeping the Law, and it was becoming a serious problem. Due to the Spirit of God being poured out upon them, the Gentiles were becoming interested in all things Jewish, but the enemy was using that interest to corrupt them.

Therefore he went all the way back to Abraham (when he was Abram). Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness. So we cannot avoid the matter of imputed righteousness when discussing the basis of salvation. Unfortunately, there is too much misunderstanding about imputed righteousness.

Ah, thanks for bringing this up, Enoch. I think that particular passage is often misunderstood. It would open up a whole new discussion and likely deserves its own thread, but the proper translation there should be "Abraham believed God and it was accredited unto him for righteousness." I take this to mean that because he believed God, Abraham would do whatever God asked him to, including offering up his own son if necessary, trusting in God to resurrect him. And because of this, God accounted righteousness and obedience unto Abraham even though the man had not actually done those things yet.

 

[Hidden In Him]

This is the view held by the preeminent Pauline scholar, NT Wright, and it has a problem : "works of Law" includes universal moral injunctions and prohibitions like "do not covet" Romans 3:19-20 Romans 7:7.

On this, I would disagree with Wright, at least as far as things like coveting. This is not Jewish ceremonial Law but included under the 2nd greatest commandment. But here is where I think things get very delicate, because nowhere in Romans 7 is ha actually referring to "works of the law" but rather obedience to the law, i.e. the good works in the law that Christians are still expected to keep.

Full Chapter:

1 Or do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? 2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man. 4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

[mailmandan]

Ok let me try again. If you don't have Christian works you are not a Christian, no matter what Satan's OSAS myth says.

Sometimes I wonder if I’m not only dealing with garden variety “nominal” Christians and agitators on this forum, but also with people who may very well be mentally ill.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I don't believe washing cups on the outside or on the inside or both will save someone.
We can't "work" our way into heaven.

I don't believe people who kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, or covet will get in either.
Or worship false gods, create idols to bow down to, disrespect your parents.. etc.
Or who forsake God and choose not to keep Him in rememberance.
These are those 2 commandments that encompass all 10. Not in that order.

As often as ye have done this to me... done what?
Good works of course.
Fed, housed, clothed, visited, etc..
The law says the same thing.

You get rid of God's law.. what law is there?

Agreed.

I like where this is headed but I would like to add a third category to your list. There are two substantially different types of "good works", both are desirable and worthy of the gospel: 1) acts of charity and generosity, and 2) other actions consistent with the fruits of the spirit.

Acts of charity and generosity:
Giving money to the poor,
Giving money to a stranger on the street,
Giving money to a charitable organization,
Helping a friend move,
Putting someone up for the night,
Helping a neighbor mow the lawn, etc.
Adopting a grandchild

Actions consistent with the fruits of the spirit:
Forgiving a racist remark directed toward you or someone you love,
Forgiving the debt of a friend,
Forgiving an insult,
Letting someone cut in front of you in line,
Allowing the other car to pass on a single lane road,
Making peace with those who hate you,
Working with diligence even when the boss isn't looking,
Fair and equitable business practices,
Treating women with dignity and respect,
Keeping your hands and eyes where they belong,
Holding the door open for someone who needs it,
Encouraging the weak hearted,

I think Paul has the second list in mind when he says we were created for "good works." But maybe both lists?

Both lists, with much more not included; especially the preaching of the gospel, laying hands on the sick, the working of miracles... anything that edified others spiritually, along with caring for their physical needs as well.

This is not what Paul meant by works of the law. Paul was talking about distinctly Jewish religious rituals: rules, ordinances, and cultural practices unique to Judaism.

That is my take as well.

The problem is that people try to interpret verses out of context and in biblical interpretation, as in all communication, context is king. When trying to understand scripture you first have to ask yourself what the passage is about, what exactly is being addressed. Eg. Romans 2:6-7 isn't about the way of salvation, but contrasts saints with sinners in the context of judging people and ministering the gospel. Galatians 6:6-10 isn't about the means of salvation, but is a warning against hypocrisy and an exhortation to good works based upon the spiritual law of sowing and reaping. Revelation 19:7-8 isn't about the means of salvation, but about the results of it. Matthew 22:11-13 says nothing about the means of salvation but only points to the necessity of a "wedding garment" and this shouldn't be confused with the description of the bride in Revelation 19 because the parable is about the invited guests who are rejected and all those who are compelled to enter the wedding feast, not about the bride and groom.
It's all about context. I could string together verses from different passages to make claims to the most outlandish things (and that's how cults are created), but context sets the framework for understanding and scripture is always in agreement with itself. If you find what appears to be contradiction in scripture, the problem isn't with the scripture but with your understanding. That's actually the basis of "the canon of scripture."
We also run into a problem when comparing law and grace because they don't serve the same purpose in God's economy. The law of Moses was never a means of eternal salvation, but "righteousness " to those who observed it and the promise of long life in the land promised to Abraham.
24 And the Lord commanded us to observe all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that He might preserve us alive, as it is this day. 25 Then it will be righteousness for us, if we are careful to observe all these commandments before the Lord our God, as He has commanded us.’ Deuteronomy 6:24-25
The idea of a resurrection is found in the old testament in the book of Job and in some verses from the prophets, but the concept of a salvation to an eternal life is entirely foreign to the law of Moses.

Wow. That would take a lot of work to confirm, Lol.
Gonna stop here so I can go through all that next. I've almost made it through Page 2. Glory to God! LoL.

 

[TheslightestID]

No, Jesus' ministry was to the Jews under the law. He taught God's grace from the text of the Torah and was called Rabbi by His peers.
24 But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” Matthew 15:24

5 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 10:5-6

Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do Matthew 23:1-3
So do you avoid wearing mixed fabrics of clothing, offer up blood sacrifices, participate in the feasts and sacred assemblies, etc? All these things only applied to the Jews and those few gentiles that converted from paganism to Judaism. The gentiles weren't even allowed to enter the inner court of the temple under penalty of death. When trying to understand scripture, context is the first consideration, anything else is just poor scholarship.

Prove Christ was not talking about all men, when he answered we should obey the commandments?

Also, are you essentually stating, we, as gentiles, need not keep any of the commandments?

 

[michaelvpardo]

Prove Christ was not talking about all men, when he answered we should obey the commandments?

Also, are you essentually stating, we, as gentiles, need not keep any of the commandments?

The bible proves it if you just take the time to study it. I'm not the Holy Spirit so it isn't my job to convince you of anything. Your last comment isn't even deserving of an answer. Read the bible. Paul answered all these carnal minded objections roughly 2000 years ago and he was the Apostle to the gentiles, not me.

 

[kcnalp]

Sometimes I wonder if I’m not only dealing with garden variety “nominal” Christians and agitators on this forum, but also with people who may very well be mentally ill.

Satan's OSAS license to sin has been revoked! No Christian works, NO SALVATION!

 

[mailmandan]

Satan's OSAS license to sin has been revoked! No Christian works, NO SALVATION!

That may be Satan’s version of OSAS, but not mine. Give it a rest with the straw-man arguments and grow up.

 

[kcnalp]

That may be Satan’s version of OSAS, but not mine. Give it a rest with the straw-man arguments and grow up.

So OSAS is works religion!

 

[TheslightestID]

The bible proves it if you just take the time to study it. I'm not the Holy Spirit so it isn't my job to convince you of anything. Your last comment isn't even deserving of an answer. Read the bible. Paul answered all these carnal minded objections roughly 2000 years ago and he was the Apostle to the gentiles, not me.

One answer is you are not the holy spirit, but you must have some way to prove what you say, yet, nothing.

Your other answer was my last comment was not worth replying too.

How obviousely convenient for you to blame it on me because you cannot back your stance.

 

[Curtis]

You don’t be confounded. We are not under the new convenient until israel meets the terms and conditions and Christ returns to bring Israel to new Jerusalem . Unless you believe he has return all ready and all is fulfilled. Meaning heaven and earth have passed away. Idk you tell me haha. Old covenant new covenant we are under the laws of God. The covenants pertain only to Israel according to the flesh anyway so lord willing I’m a part of that number. And I pray and study diligently to make my election sure in these last days. How to do that by works of the law . That be the only way faith is justified. And vice versa

That’s easily refuted.

Hebrews 9 says the new covenant from Christ is like a last will and testament, so it took effect at His death.

Heb 9:14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

Heb 9:15 Therefore he is the mediator of a new covenant/testament, so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred that redeems them from the transgressions committed under the first covenant.

Heb 9:16 For where a will is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.

Heb 9:17 For a will takes effect only at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive.

Heb 9:18 Therefore not even the first covenant was inaugurated without blood.

Now read Hebrews 8, which states Jesus is mediator of the new covenant, then quotes Jeremiah 31, which is about the new covenant God will have with the houses of Israel and Judah, to show which covenant He is mediator of - thus it’s obvious that the new covenant began with the death of Jesus.

Heb 8:6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.

Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second.

Heb 8:8 For he finds fault with them when he says: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah,

Heb 8:9 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Per Romans 11, currently most of Israel, except a remnant, are cut off by unbelief from their own new covenant, and gentiles who believe are grafted in.

The new covenant is spiritual, is circumcision of the heart, not the flesh, and one enters into it wnen Gods spirit indwells them as believers in Jesus, which is in effect right now.





BTW notice that Hebrews 8 also states that the old covenant was faulty.

It was deliberately harsh and enslaving, to contrast trying to earn righteousness by works of the law - all 613 parts of it that had to be kept - with righteousness by faith and grace when the new covenant came.

Galatians 4:21-31 the covenant given on mount Sinai was bondage.

Acts 15 Peter states the law of Moses was a yoke of bondage:

Act 15:5 But some believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and to order them to keep the law of Moses.”

Act 15:6 The apostles and the elders were gathered together to consider this matter.

Act 15:7 And after there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, “Brothers, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe.

Act 15:8 And God, who knows the heart, bore witness to them, by giving them the Holy Spirit just as he did to us,

Act 15:9 and he made no distinction between us and them, having cleansed their hearts by faith.

Act 15:10 Now, therefore, why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?

Act 15:11 But we believe that we will be saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, just as they will.”

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I am all the more convinced that the principle of us "not being saved by works" applies specifically to not being saved by keeping the works of the Jewish law, since they have no effect on things. Good works, however, are precisely what we have been created in Christ Jesus for, so leaving these things out of the equation would be to defeat the very purpose of the grace Paul was talking about here.

I invite friendly debate.

Precious friend, if "friendly debate" is asking questions, then:

(1) IF I am required {MUST DO} the good {righteous?} works "that I am
Created In CHRIST JESUS for," in order to acquire/maintain "my salvation,"
then does this not then Discredit:

a) The "FINISHED Work of CHRIST and HIS

ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Of The Cross"?

a1) Is HIS Precious BLOOD then INsufficient For forgiveness of ALL sin?

a2) Does it only "pay for PART" of our sins, and THEN, we MUST "stop
sinning/BE PERFECT," performing ONLY "good {Righteous?} works," and
thereby gain/merit salvation?

a3) Is not "Justification by faith," God "Declaring one Righteous
In HIS Sight," Then Also "Nullified"?
​

b) God's Very Plain And Clear Teaching on God's MERCY/GRACE!:

"But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man
appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but
According to HIS MERCY HE SAVED us, By The Washing Of
Regeneration, And Renewing Of The Holy Ghost; Which HE Shed
on us Abundantly Through JESUS CHRIST our Saviour; That being
Justified By HIS GRACE, we should be made heirs according to the
hope of Eternal Life!" (Titus_3 : 4-7 KJB!)

Is not God's GRACE "Defined" as: UNmerited Favor,
Giving us FREELY Giving us What we DO NOT Deserve!?

Is not God's Everlasting MERCY "Defined" as:
God NEVER Giving us what we DO Deserve!?
​

(2) Conclusion: Not leaving them out of the equation,
"works of righteousness" Are Very Important, not for salvation, but
For REWARD At Judgment (1Co 3 : 8-15 KJB!), WHEN we Get There!
Amen?
-----------------------
God's THREE "Tenses" Of salvation?:
God's Simple Will

Be Blessed!

 

[GracePeace]

On this, I would disagree with Wright, at least as far as things like coveting. This is not Jewish ceremonial Law but included under the 2nd greatest commandment. But here is where I think things get very delicate, because nowhere in Romans 7 is ha actually referring to "works of the law" but rather obedience to the law, i.e. the good works in the law that Christians are still expected to keep.

1. Clarification : NT Wright has wanted to claim "works of Law" is "Jewish stuff like dietary Law, Sabbath, etc".
When I emailed him and told him there was a problem with that view, because "works of Law" included coveting, I think he said he agreed with me, but that he had said more about the subject, so that I had misunderstood him, but then he wouldn't clarify what his position actually was (I could be wrong but it sounded like he just wanted to claim he was right without having to deal with the argument).

2. My position is that "works of Law" includes ALL of the good things the Law commands--as the phrase suggests, they are "the good works" which "the Law" wants you to perform (physical and mental and spiritual). According to Romans 3:20, when the Law speaks and sin becomes known "works of the Law" are being discussed--by this understanding, Romans 7 "works of the Law" subsumes the prohibition against coveting.
Romans 3:20
...because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.
Romans 7
...I would not have come to know sin except through the Law; for I would not have known about coveting if the Law had not said, “YOU SHALL NOT COVET.”

 

[Heart2Soul]

Ok let me try again. If you don't have Christian works you are not a Christian, no matter what Satan's OSAS myth says.

Please explain Christian works....by example. Thanks.

 

[thelord's_pearl]

I'd like to put this up for debate, because I noticed something interesting about the following passage of scripture in Ephesians just this morning. I have always understood the phraseology used by Paul that "we are not saved by works" to refer specifically to not being saved by observing the works of the law, such as observing circumcision and Jewish unclean food laws.

Well if you look at the passage in context this seems to confirm it, because he immediately follows the phrase stating we are "not saved by works [of the law]" by adding that we are "created unto good works."

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. 11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. 17 And He came and preached peace to you who were afar off and to those who were near. 18 For through Him we both have access by one Spirit to the Father.

After noticing this, I am all the more convinced that the principle of us "not being saved by works" applies specifically to not being saved by keeping the works of the Jewish law, since they have no effect on things. Good works, however, are precisely what we have been created in Christ Jesus for, so leaving these things out of the equation would be to defeat the very purpose of the grace Paul was talking about here.

I invite friendly debate.
Hidden In Him.

I am not very familiar with the Jewish laws part as I read the scriptures but I believe you're right on that. I also read Ephesians or Romans and got the same interpretations as I line it up with the whole Bible so we're not saved by out own works of the flesh but by the works led by the Spirit and the Holy Spirit tells us through the Word/Holy Bible/sword of the Spirit, how to be like.

 

[MatthewG]

Prove Christ was not talking about all men, when he answered we should obey the commandments?

Also, are you essentually stating, we, as gentiles, need not keep any of the commandments?

Hello I believe it is possible to show and instance where Jesus Christ is talking directly and explicitly to His disciples. Will be using the great commission and adding comments going along. From the text of Matthew 28:16-20.

Matthew 28:16-20
16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.

Verse 16: (After everything previously). Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee,
to the mountain which Jesus had to them to go.​

17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.

Verse 17 : When they came there to the mountain which Jesus told them to go; they worshiped Him; they fell before him, and worshipped out of love, but some doubted.​

18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Verse 18: Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." So He is there with the eleven disciples telling what authority that has been given to him that the Lord now wields.​

19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Verse 19: Still talking to his disciples there with Him; listening to what He has to say continues on to them ~ Therefore since all of the authority in heaven and earth has been given to me. Go forth now, unto making disciples of all the inhabitants of the land, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

(The nations around at that time period : ethnos: a race, a nation, pl. the nations (as distinct from Isr.) is the word for nations.)
Strong's Greek: 1484. ἔθνος (ethnos) -- a race, a nation, pl. the nations (as distinct from Isr.)​

20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Verse 20: Still talking to his disciples; He told them to go on to teach them to obey ; everything that was commanded unto the Disciples who had been with Jesus Christ for the past three years during his ministry. And that He will and is with them always, to the very end of the age. (The ending of the age of their generation.) ~ Death​

This is one of the most used text when it comes to doing mission trips and whatever, personally believe that the truth is plain in the text, as far as whom is being spoken to very explicitly.

Also : Gentiles never received the law to follow: Only the the Chosen Nation of God which was Israel was given the commandments by Moses ( I believe; correct if wrong). The Gentile - Greeks did not receive the law I believe according to the scriptures you might have to fact check me on that because it is possible for me to be wrong sometimes. When it comes down to commandments ; the only two commandments given by and from the Lord Jesus Christ which are the greatest is to Love God with all your of mind, all of your heart, all of your strength, all of your soul, and to Love others as yourself is fulfilling the law of Christ ~ Which is to have faith and to love.

Thank you for asking for it to be done, and hope that you found informative and helpful you take care.