Grace vs Legalism

[justbyfaith]

Did Paul obey the gospel in (Acts 22:16)?

1. Arise
2. Be Baptized (Acts 8:26-40)
3. Wash Away Your Sins
4. Calling on the Lord


When were Paul's sins washed away?

BEFORE or AFTER ----> BAPTISM

Does the bottom part of Mark 16:16 negate the top part of the same verse?

during.

Consider that he who believes and is baptized "shall" be saved...the one who only believes "should" not perish...iffy.

But believing alone still brings salvation...it is just not sealed in you until you are either baptized or else call on the name of the Lord.

well the commandment is to Love. ..... your God with all your heart, and the second is as the First, love ye one another.

now do you LOVE everyone? ... before you answer that, do you love the DEVIL? ... be honest.

PICJAG

Love believes all things; and the devil is a liar.

Therefore, loving the devil would put us in something of a predicament, don't you think?

 

[CharismaticLady]

well the commandment is to Love. ..... your God with all your heart, and the second is as the First, love ye one another.

now do you LOVE everyone? ... before you answer that, do you love the DEVIL? ... be honest.

PICJAG

The devil is not my God, nor human. Why don't you want to be a child of God, instead of a sinner?

 

[CharismaticLady]

(1Jn) was wrote to Christians.

The word "WE" refers to Christians in (1Jn 1).

Read #162.

 

[justbyfaith]

In Romans 3:23, the Greek for "come short" is in the present passive indicative; and this speaks volumes to me; and takes me over the edge to convert me to the idea that even those who are sanctified wholly have sin and are not yet perfected.

However, that is in the passive indicates to me that if we are active in pursuing the Lord, we can overcome this problem in humanity that we come short....in the present passive indicative.

 

[101G]

The devil is not my God, nor human. Why don't you want to be a child of God, instead of a sinner?

are we as christian are supposed to LOVE our enemies?
and to answer your question about being a "CHILD" of God. I am ....... but, 1 Corinthians 13:11.... you might want to do the same.

PICJAG.

 

[CharismaticLady]

are we as christian are supposed to LOVE our enemies?
and to answer your question about being a "CHILD" of God. I am ....... but, 1 Corinthians 13:11.... you might want to do the same.

PICJAG.

I'm not the one who claims to be a sinner. Not loving is a sin. I don't sin, but you claim to. Why? You can't be a child of God and also a sinner, so which are you. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.

What's interesting is I don't believe you actually believe you are a sinner. I don't think you practice sin. I think you honestly believe you are a Christian and a child of God. But you just don't know how to get around the words of 1 John 1:8, and refuse any advanced theology to show you.

 

[justbyfaith]

are we as christian are supposed to LOVE our enemies?

I read about this doctrine as a young child. In a book that my stepdad had that promoted satanism.

The thing is, the doctrine in question led me to believe in Jesus (because the word cannot return void; and it is a Bible verse).

But the devil's purpose in it is to get people to believe in his lies even though he is the deceiver of the whole world.

Love believes all things. If I love him when he lies to me, I will believe his lies and how then will I be saved?

I must hold the word of God to be true over and above everything that any spirit might say to me...even if that spirit tells me that it is my enemy and I am to love my enemies and love believes all things.

I believe that it is written in Proverbs that a foolish person believes everything he hears but that a prudent man shall look well to his goings.

 

[101G]

I'm not the one who claims to be a sinner. Not loving is a sin. I don't sin, but you claim to. Why?

you live in a body correct? and sin was condemned in the flesh. now as for you without sin, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." so the scriptures say you are not telling the truth.

now one more, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

not just "US" and "WE" that you deny, well John said any, any, any, man sin, that just got you... (smile)...lol.

see CharismaticLady when people boldly say they don't sin, they deceive themselves. meaning they are in a state of lying, which is a "SIN"... oop's

the point John is getting us to understand, we all make mistakes, because we're human, we are not God .... yet. just don't pratice sinning
so, stay in fantasy land and stay safe...... (smile), and don't pratice sinning ... ok.

PICJAG

 

[Enoch111]

see CharismaticLady when people boldly say they don't sin, they deceive themselves. meaning they are in a state of lying, which is a "SIN"... oop's

Correct. It also means that when the self-deceived refuse to repent -- after being shown their error -- they go into WILFUL BLINDNESS, and eventually God blinds them to the truth.

It is an extremely dangerous thing to contradict the Word of God.

 

[CharismaticLady]

you live in a body correct? and sin was condemned in the flesh. now as for you without sin, 1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." so the scriptures say you are not telling the truth.

now one more, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:"

not just "US" and "WE" that you deny, well John said any, any, any, man sin, that just got you... (smile)...lol.

see CharismaticLady when people boldly say they don't sin, they deceive themselves. meaning they are in a state of lying, which is a "SIN"... oop's

the point John is getting us to understand, we all make mistakes, because we're human, we are not God .... yet. just don't pratice sinning
so, stay in fantasy land and stay safe...... (smile), and don't pratice sinning ... ok.

PICJAG

You are confusing our body with the flesh. According to Paul, the flesh is the old man's sinful nature. Fulfilling the lust of the flesh - this carnal nature gives you Galatians 5:19-21. They are sins of the flesh. In Romans 8:9 Paul says we are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit. He is not talking about Spirit travelling, he is talking about a NEW nature. And he goes on in Romans 8 about the body, so you wouldn't get confused and believe he is talking about the body, but people do it anyway. Oy vey!

 

[101G]

You are confusing our body with the flesh. According to Paul, the flesh is the old man's sinful nature. Fulfilling the lust of the flesh - this carnal nature gives you Galatians 5:19-21. They are sins of the flesh. In Romans 8:9 Paul says we are NOT IN THE FLESH, but in the Spirit. He is not talking about Spirit travelling, he is talking about a NEW nature. And he goes on in Romans 8 about the body, so you wouldn't get confused and believe he is talking about the body, but people do it anyway. Oy vey!

CharismaticLady, CharismaticLady, CharismaticLady. walking, (living), according to the flesh is the OLD MAN, or the way of the Flesh. understand sin is spiritual but iniquity is MANIFESTED in the flesh, our bodies. see that the difference between sin and iniquity, do you understand?. if not just ask.

PICJAG.

 

[justbyfaith]

when people boldly say they don't sin, they deceive themselves. meaning they are in a state of lying, which is a "SIN"... oop's

Actually, 1 John 1:8 tells us that if we say that we don't have indwelling sin, they deceive themselves and are in a state of lying, which is a SIN.

However, indwelling sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any dominion over us (Romans 6:14) in our behaviour. In other words, it is possible for the believer that he "doesn't sin"....just read 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9...these verses are not in contradiction to 1 John 1:8, as so many would think.

 

[101G]

Actually, 1 John 1:8 tells us that if we say that we don't have indwelling sin, they deceive themselves and are in a state of lying, which is a SIN.

However, indwelling sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any dominion over us (Romans 6:14) in our behaviour. In other words, it is possible for the believer that he "doesn't sin"....just read 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9...these verses are not in contradiction to 1 John 1:8, as so many would think.

Correct, JBF you're BORN again. could not have said it better myself. because sin was condemned in the flesh. and one better have the GREATER one in you to HELP. hence his other title... "HELPER. supportive scripture, Galatians 5:15 "But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another."
Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
Galatians 5:17 "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

PICJAG

 

[justbyfaith]

Actually, 1 John 1:8 tells us that if we say that we don't have indwelling sin, they deceive themselves and are in a state of lying, which is a SIN.

However, indwelling sin can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any dominion over us (Romans 6:14) in our behaviour. In other words, it is possible for the believer that he "doesn't sin"....just read 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 3:9...these verses are not in contradiction to 1 John 1:8, as so many would think.

Correct, JBF you're BORN again. could not have said it better myself. because sin was condemned in the flesh. and one better have the GREATER one in you to HELP. hence his other title... "HELPER. supportive scripture, Galatians 5:15 "But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another."
Galatians 5:16 "This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh."
Galatians 5:17 "For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would."

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK.

PICJAG

I've been preaching this doctrine for some time now...but it doesn't seem like it is very well received by most people.

I'm thankful that there is someone, at least, who sees the truth and accepts it for what it is.

 

[CharismaticLady]

CharismaticLady, CharismaticLady, CharismaticLady. walking, (living), according to the flesh is the OLD MAN, or the way of the Flesh. understand sin is spiritual but iniquity is MANIFESTED in the flesh, our bodies. see that the difference between sin and iniquity, do you understand?. if not just ask.

PICJAG.

Seeing as a Spirit-filled Christian is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, the flesh is not our body. We Christians have a new nature which will live forever, but the same body that will die, and we then are given a new body to go with our new nature. The nature has nothing to do with our present body, which Paul was trying to say, but there are those who twist his words, because they are hard to understand, 2 Peter 3:16. But you go on and believe what contradicts even the very next verse, as well as the rest of Scripture. Don't mind me if I ask you how can you be cleansed of all unrighteousness, and still be a sinner? Scripture answers. I prefer searching out the truth in advanced studies and from the Spirit of Truth. I will keep correcting these false ideas of the Church, and I'm glad some listen, even if most won't. "Few there are who find it."

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Paul IS the New Testament guide, sage, teacher, writer, and is unmatched regarding the true understanding of the word "Saint".
When we are following Paul as Paul follows Jesus, we are preserved from the cults and the deceivers.
To Know Paul is to Know the New Testament.
Its almost hilarious that the Catholic Church has carefully/nearly omitted Paul from their Cult, as it deifies Peter, but then again, every cult and heretic has no or almost no association with Paul.
That explains a lot.

I worked for years with A guy who married a catholic girl and I guess he had to be a “ catholic” also ...maybe he was like+my brother who did the same thing....
They gotta take a few classes and do some other nonsensical things, I don’t remember....
Anyway.....I was talking about Paul to this friend for about 30 minutes.....I don’t remember the Specifics Of the conversation , but I “ DO” remember this—— after letting me go on for all of this time , he interrupted me suddenly and Asked.....” Who is Paul?”........I was absolutely stunned.....Amazing ..
Now could be a Good time to mention that the Methodist Church is no better when it comes to studying the Letters Of Paul..... I know this from experience....

 

[101G]

Seeing as a Spirit-filled Christian is not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, the flesh is not our body. We Christians have a new nature which will live forever, but the same body that will die, and we then are given a new body to go with our new nature. The nature has nothing to do with our present body, which Paul was trying to say, but there are those who twist his words, because they are hard to understand, 2 Peter 3:16. But you go on and believe what contradicts even the very next verse, as well as the rest of Scripture. Don't mind me if I ask you how can you be cleansed of all unrighteousness, and still be a sinner? Scripture answers. I prefer searching out the truth in advanced studies and from the Spirit of Truth. I will keep correcting these false ideas of the Church, and I'm glad some listen, even if most won't. "Few there are who find it."

GINOLJC, to all.
CharismaticLady, my, my, my, my. do your new NATURE dring water? reat food? or goto the bathroom and do a #1, or a #2? ... no, of course not. but that body of flesh do. see your body haven't been redeem yet. you live in a corrupt bod, subject to the laws of nature. and if not controlled it can sin. the apostle Paul describe it clearly.
Romans 7:12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."
Romans 7:13 "Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful."
Romans 7:14 "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."
Romans 7:15 "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I." (READ THAT AGAIN, AND AGAIN)
Romans 7:16 "If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good."
Romans 7:17 "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." (IF SOMEONE IS STRUGGLING WITH SIN, YOU'RE NOT ALONE)

Romans 7:18 "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."
Romans 7:19 "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do."
Romans 7:20 "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." (THIS IS THE 78 MILLION DOLLAR AND 53 CENT REVELATION IF YOU HAVE EYES TO SEE IT).
Romans 7:21 "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me."Romans 7:22 "For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:"
Romans 7:23 "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."
Romans 7:24 "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
Romans 7:25 "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

I had to get pen and paper out and read every verse one at a time and take notes as to what was said. and oh what the revelation are in these few verses, but that's if you have eyes to see, and ears to hear. and chapter 6, relieves the mind of sin. we suggest you re-read the whole book of Romans. it will in the Son MAKE you FREE INDEED. that's why I have so much fun here on the site, using different smiles/emoji. if one understand their freedom in Christ Jesus one don't have to boast about being sinless, by boasting that right there tells me that one is not seure if they are sinless or not....

see CharismaticLady, you boast about your praying.. and being none sinful, that just showe me that you don't understand the GRACE of God....

but God reveals to us why he allowed the apostle Paul to write Romans chapter 7 here, and chapter 6. if one is struggling with sin, oh what a Revelation the book of Romans is, it will help "MAKE" you FREE from .... YOUR SIN. aint God good.

we will end with this, you said, "I will keep correcting these false ideas of the Church, and I'm glad some listen, even if most won't. "Few there are who find it". YOU HAVE NOT BECAUSE YE ASK NOT.....

PICJAG.

 

[marks]

Thing is, there are many believers who do not experience this practically. So, has it happened for them?



Has it happened for those believers who do not experience it practically?

If someone is still living a lifestyle of sin, are they dead to sin?

If someone has been born again, then, yes, they are dead to sin. But many don't believe this.

 

[CharismaticLady]

GINOLJC, to all.
CharismaticLady, my, my, my, my. do your new NATURE dring water? reat food? or goto the bathroom and do a #1, or a #2? ... no, of course not. but that body of flesh do. see your body haven't been redeem yet. you live in a corrupt bod, subject to the laws of nature. and if not controlled it can sin. the apostle Paul describe it clearly.
Romans 7:12 "Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good."
Romans 7:13 "Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful."
Romans 7:14 "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin."
Romans 7:15 "For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I." (READ THAT AGAIN, AND AGAIN)
Romans 7:16 "If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good."
Romans 7:17 "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." (IF SOMEONE IS STRUGGLING WITH SIN, YOU'RE NOT ALONE)

Romans 7:18 "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not."
Romans 7:19 "For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do."
Romans 7:20 "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." (THIS IS THE 78 MILLION DOLLAR AND 53 CENT REVELATION IF YOU HAVE EYES TO SEE IT).
Romans 7:21 "I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me."Romans 7:22 "For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:"
Romans 7:23 "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members."
Romans 7:24 "O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
Romans 7:25 "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin."

I had to get pen and paper out and read every verse one at a time and take notes as to what was said. and oh what the revelation are in these few verses, but that's if you have eyes to see, and ears to hear. and chapter 6, relieves the mind of sin. we suggest you re-read the whole book of Romans. it will in the Son MAKE you FREE INDEED. that's why I have so much fun here on the site, using different smiles/emoji. if one understand their freedom in Christ Jesus one don't have to boast about being sinless, by boasting that right there tells me that one is not seure if they are sinless or not....

see CharismaticLady, you boast about your praying.. and being none sinful, that just showe me that you don't understand the GRACE of God....

but God reveals to us why he allowed the apostle Paul to write Romans chapter 7 here, and chapter 6. if one is struggling with sin, oh what a Revelation the book of Romans is, it will help "MAKE" you FREE from .... YOUR SIN. aint God good.

we will end with this, you said, "I will keep correcting these false ideas of the Church, and I'm glad some listen, even if most won't. "Few there are who find it". YOU HAVE NOT BECAUSE YE ASK NOT.....

PICJAG.

Again, just like 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10, the person struggling in Romans 7:14-25, is still in the flesh, the carnal nature of sin and death, and does not know Christ. But just as you don't know how 1 John 1:9 FREES you from all the sin of the person in 1 John 1:8, neither do you know how Romans 8:2 shows you that the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHRIST, HAS FREED ME FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH, which mindset you have chosen to only relate to in Romans 7. What do you do? Just pick and choose scriptures that suit your character and read no further? That is called a justification for sin. Just like your flagrant error regarding nature and the body. But what is truly baffling, you don't WANT to learn the Truth that could take you out of the common spiritual ignorance that plagues the Church.

CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!!!!

IOW, those who are struggling with sin need to come to Jesus and be born again of the Spirit. Not everyone who goes to church has done this requirement, though still go to church wanting a Savior, and are part of the congregation of Paul or John, thus the "we" and "I". Just like you are part of the "we." They believe in Jesus as Savior, but NOT as Christ. Do you know the difference? We must receive both. Jesus Christ/Savior and Lord. Because those that only know Jesus as Savior, Christ doesn't know, and will say to them, "depart from me, I never knew you, you workers of wickedness."

 

[Behold]

I worked for years with A guy who married a catholic girl and I guess he had to be a “ catholic” also ...maybe he was like+my brother who did the same thing....
They gotta take a few classes and do some other nonsensical things, I don’t remember....
Anyway.....I was talking about Paul to this friend for about 30 minutes.....I don’t remember the Specifics Of the conversation , but I “ DO” remember this—— after letting me go on for all of this time , he interrupted me suddenly and Asked.....” Who is Paul?”........I was absolutely stunned.....Amazing ..
Now could be a Good time to mention that the Methodist Church is no better when it comes to studying the Letters Of Paul..... I know this from experience....

Christ IS Christianity and Paul wrote most of it.

I enjoy many of the 100ad - 12th century writers who understood the revelation of Christ in a way that is much more significant then "modern church" teaches it.
Modern church has distilled it into the "program" and taken the "mystical" out of it.
Christianity is an amazing wonder... Its endless, bottomless, fathomless, incomparable.

God CAME to us, ... became ONE of us, to take us BACK HOME..
This LOVE OF GOD.... the lost world needs it so much.