Grace vs Legalism

[marks]

I like @Episkopas, but I'm not on the same page with him in Eschotology. This is my own view after reading many parables of the chaff and bundles of tares being burned up and destroyed. Also knowing that hell was not made for man, but for the immortal fallen angels, who knew God, personally, and still betrayed Him.

Matthew 25
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This word, punishment, is the same word used in . . .

1 John 4
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yes, but so many are told they are saved when they aren't. And if they are also taught, OSAS, then they are in a false assurance.

I remember being in a Presbyterian church one Christmas Eve with family . . . not our regular church, and their pastor didn't last long . . . but I remember the look on my wife's face when she, that is, this pastor, told the packed congregation, rather invited them to share in communion, and, "no matter what you think, or believe, you will be saved in doing this." We did not participate!

Yes, there are some people out there teaching doctrines that are out there!

Much love!

 

[marks]

It seems we still disagree that not all sin is willful. I'll keep my Old Testament definitions - our schoolmaster.

I can't imagine why you don't think that you have power over sin. Except for using an erroneous definition of sin. But even that aside . . .

Sins which you call unwillful, unintentional, they don't come from God, of course. Where does that leave?

Much love!

 

[marks]

What makes you think that those with the Spirit of God indwelling them cannot be holy in this lifetime? Hebrews 12:14

What makes you think that I think that we cannot be holy in this lifetime?

 

[CharismaticLady]

Matthew 25
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

This word, punishment, is the same word used in . . .

1 John 4
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Much love!

The last one is that hell is forever, because the devil and his angels are immortal.

Everlasting punishment could also mean with no end until death when compared to the parables.

 

[marks]

The source of sin??? Where did this thought come from??? I don't remember saying anything along this line of reasoning?

This is my line of reasoning. God is not the source for any sin. Our new life is from God. Sin does not come from our new life. Therefore, sin must come from our old life. Our old life is the life of the flesh. Sin comes from the flesh. Any sin, of any description, comes from the flesh. Therefore parsing sins is a mistake in terms of acceptance or condemnation. What is from the flesh is condemned.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I can't imagine why you don't think that you have power over sin. Except for using an erroneous definition of sin. But even that aside . . .

Sins which you call unwillful, unintentional, they don't come from God, of course. Where does that leave?

Much love!

I DO have power over willful sin. What makes you think I believe differently?

 

[marks]

Everlasting punishment could also mean with no end until death when compared to the parables.

Everlasting torment. Fear hath torment. That torment will last forever in these who are being cast into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

This is my line of reasoning. God is not the source for any sin. Our new life is from God. Sin does not come from our new life. Therefore, sin must come from our old life. Our old life is the life of the flesh. Sin comes from the flesh. Any sin, of any description, comes from the flesh. Therefore parsing sins is a mistake in terms of acceptance or condemnation. What is from the flesh is condemned.

Much love!

When you are in the Spirit you can STAY THERE, and never willfully sin. But Paul does warn us not to quench the Spirit by doing something willful, or even grieve the Spirit by not doing something you should - omission.

 

[marks]

I DO have power over willful sin. What makes you think I believe differently?

Not willful sin, as you call it. I'm saying, all sin.

Do you have power of all sin? Are you dead to all sin? Did joining Jesus in death justify you away from all sin? I believe that in the Spirit we do not sin, and if we do sin, regardless of what it is, that sin did not come from walking in the Spirit.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Denying the reality of everlasting punishment, as eternal torments in the lake of fire, diminishes the deterring influence of said punishment.

 

[marks]

Of course, at the end of the day, I continue to believe that Christ in me is causing me to live in love for others increasingly, that this is what He wants. And in this, everything is fulfilled.

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Everlasting torment. Fear hath torment. That torment will last forever in these who are being cast into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

Much love!

That's one way to look at it, and many do. I just don't, and I've told you why. I'm glad I don't have to find out.

 

[CharismaticLady]

I believe that in the Spirit we do not sin, and if we do sin, regardless of what it is, that sin did not come from walking in the Spirit.

Does this mean you believe all Spirit-filled Christians go in and out of the Spirit?

 

[marks]

That's one way to look at it, and many do. I just don't, and I've told you why. I'm glad I don't have to find out.

I'm just saying these are the words that were spoken. Yes, it's good to know find out!

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

I'm just saying these are the words that were spoken. Yes, it's good to know find out!

Much love!

But ALL Scripture must be taken into account.

 

[CharismaticLady]

@marks talk to you later

 

[marks]

the one who clings to Jesus in faith.

What part are you looking at that tells us the one who remains saved is the one who clings to Jesus in faith?

By this you mean that we might or might not continue to trust Him, and that failing to continue to trust Him, we become no longer saved, this is correct?

Much love!

 

[marks]

But ALL Scripture must be taken into account.

Well, OK.

 

[marks]

Does this mean you believe all Spirit-filled Christians go in and out of the Spirit?

In and out of the Spirit? That's not Biblical terminology, I don't think.

We are either walking in the Spirit, or walking according to the flesh. Not in the flesh, according to the flesh. Either in the Spirit, or according to the flesh.

I believe those "according to the flesh" times take in all instances of sin in our lives, willful, unwillful, any and all sin. It comes from the flesh.

Much love!