I prefer to look to those more specific passages to illuminate those which are less specific.
On these, the same word is used in both places.
Much love!
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I prefer to look to those more specific passages to illuminate those which are less specific.
On these, the same word is used in both places.
Much love!
However, there is always the possibility that my faith isn't genuine, so how can I have the confidence that my faith will endure?
If the only way to know that my faith is genuine is to endure, I do not know that my faith is genuine until after I have endured to the end.
So if I fall away, my faith was not genuine.
It leaves us with the same predicament in the practical sense. If I have faith in Jesus, I can fall away (Luke 8:13).
I may think that I am saved when I am really not; because my faith was not genuine.
If I fall away, that indicates that my faith was not genuine.
But for all practical purposes, it was faith (Luke 8:13).
If I cannot know that my faith is genuine until after my faith endures, then I have no assurance until after my faith endures; which is the end of my life.
Now we know that if we are children of God, His Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.
However, there are those who have a false assurance of this. So, how do we know that we are not also those people?
We may think that we are saved and yet really be not. And where is the assurance and security in that?
Because faith is clearly in the person who is planted in rocky ground. Does his faith not save him?
If it doesn't, then how can we be certain that our faith saves us?
If it does, then he is saved temporarily until he falls away; and then he loses his salvation.
But if he was never saved in the first place, what did he fall away from?
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CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
7 is those already filled with the Spirit. They are not in order. 6, 8 and 10 are darkness. 5, 7, and 9 are all light.
This to me is sad.
The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are the children of God.
2 Timothy 1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day.
This is eternal life, that they might know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, Whom You have sent.
Do you not know Him?
If you know Him, is that not because you have a true faith?
Much love!
So then in verse 7, these are cleansed from ALL sin, this is correct?
Much love!
The believed, the demons believe, they believed, but had no root in themself. The Word never penetrated into them to take root.
But this is really all I can say on this point. We're talking in circles I think.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Yes. You can't walk in the Light and still commit willful sins of lawlessness. 1 John 3:4. So what other type of sin could they be committing that are being cleansed?
Philippians 3:16 comes to mind too.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Known sin. There can still be sin you don't know about, as Phil. 3:16 shows you.
Also, Walking in the light is walking in love, so you are forgiving others their trespasses against you, thus that would be the only hindrance to having your sins forgiven. Matthew 6:14-15
7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Holding a grudge is willful and would be grieving the Holy Spirit you are trying to walk in, which could lead to quenching Him. Willful sin is not automatically forgiven. It requires turning away from it and reconciliation is required.
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Can you say more about what this reconciliation is that needs to happen?
I'm thinking in terms where God tells us that He reconciled us to Himself even when we were His enemies. What is remaining?
Much love!
I agree with this, that there may be sin you don't recognize. That being the case, who can have any assurance of their rebirth? If the presence of sin shows a false conversion, and we don't always know when we sin, then doesn't that mean that we'd be fools to think that we can have any assurance that we are born again?
Much love!
This speaks towards, Work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God Who works in you to will and do what pleases Him.
This is an ongoing work. These are all present tense, happening now.
We are now to be "working out" what God is now working in us.
Much love!
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
That is between you and God. This is talking about your brethren. As I recall, you do not believe the Sermon on the Mount is for Christians, but explaining the Old Covenant. Jesus wasn't sent here to do that but to teach what was missing that you will be empowered to do in the New Covenant. But I do and that is why I teach Matthew 6:14-15.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
The key is are you growing, or are you saying, I'm already saved, I can do what I want and literally go backwards. I quote 2 Peter 1 a lot, but really verses 5-9 is key to show us actual growth is essential.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
There is a reason the Spirit is called the Spirit of Truth. It is He that teaches us and gives us revelation knowledge.
Transformation also.
Beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, we are being transformed into that same image . . .
Much love!
Well, to hear you describe our life in Christ, It sounds much different.
Are you growing? Or are you sinless?
And it's this a rather narrow set of "alternatives"?
Who is the one who defines growth? And what that looks like in any particular person?
Who is it that says, I'm saved, I can sin sin sin, oh yeah baby!
But even still . . . faith, or works. Not both.
The presence or absence of sin is not what defines our relationship with God. The righteousness of God that is by faith. That's what defines us.
Whenever we look at sin to define it in someone's life, or try to define someone's life by sin, we will find ourselves endlessly mired in lists of rules and terms that aren't inclusive in the same way faith and love are.
That which is not of faith is sin. So instead of being fixated on sins, let's make sure we are walking by faith.
Much love!
So then, the reconciliation is to to remove you from condemnation as many times as needed, this is correct?
Much love!
Being given something does not mean that most Believers understand what they are given.
You seem to not realize this..
So, let me help you.
All the born again are given the word of God.... How many understand 2% of it?
Yet they are "given it", right?
And so it is with all Spiritual things and all Spiritual Reality.
We are given it all, upon "new birth", but that is not the same as existing within the "Mind of Christ" Right Believing,= understanding of it..
Even a verse like...>"work out your salvation"..
99% of Believers have no idea how to do this, or even what this verse means.
Most are foolishly taught it means to try to keep yourself saved.
So, it is one thing to become born again, but its a different situation to grow up correctly "in Christ".
That won't stop them from filling up more Pulpits, becoming more Popes, and ruining more Christian forums.
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