Grace vs Legalism

[Behold]

Hi Behold,

Do you mean this in the sense that as we are no longer the flesh, we no longer have sin? Having been died and resurrected in Christ, our sin goes down into the grave, but does not come back out with us?
So that the crucified flesh has sin, but I do not have sin, being crucified to the flesh, and to sin? And created in righteousness and holiness?
But that the flesh remains a sinner?

Much love!

Colossians 2 tells us that the born again have encountered a "circumcision made without hands".
Paul tells us the our old man, or sinful flesh is GONE.
He describes this as "put off", as if its a dead garment.
See it?

This is a Spiritual Circumcision.
A circumcision is where you remove FLESH..... in the natural realm, and God also does this to the "old man" our "flesh", when we are recreated as a "New Creation".
So, where charismaticlady and similar can't get it, can't see it, and can't teach it correctly, is that they cant comprehend that we are :

1.) New Creation, being circumcised SPIRITUALLY (without hands)= by God, AWAY from our "old man", the "flesh" who is now crucified with Christ, and has been "put off".

So, the born again, is the REAL you, its the Living Eternal you.
Your body, is the dying house, that is not the real you, and it, and the "flesh", that is the mind of the carnal man, are Dead, according to God.

So what is left is REVEALED as a "Son of God".
And this is not your body, or your "flesh" or your "carnal mind", or your "old man".
Heretics can not understand that the born again are no longer any of that....as we are a NEW CREATION.
So when we....the BORN AGAIN.... talk about what we are, who we are, and WHY, we are only to define ourselves as God has recreated us to be.
And that is the BORN AGAIN "new Creation" that has no sin, cannot sin, and will never die.
This part of us is 'ONE" with God, and "IN CHRIST", and there is no sin found there, and in THEM is where WE, as the New Creation Exist.
The Heretic only sees the flesh and the body, while talking a good game of "i understand that im a new creation", but as soon as they try to teach anything about it, they only offer the heresy that we are still sinners, and have indwelling sin.

 

[Behold]

It is clear from holy scripture that we all have indwelling sin.

What is clear is that you have confessed that you have indwelling sin, and you want the NT to comfort you and let you keep it.
So, what you do is refuse to accept the fact that John does not have sin.
He has Jesus., and in Jesus, where John exists, is no sin found.

No Born again has sin, we can have sin consciousness.
Christ however, has ALL our sin. Colossians 2:13
IF a person has sin, that person is going to hell as Christ has not redeemed them of their sin.
This is your definition of yourself, for the last 2 months.
If i were you, i'd get that worked out, as trying to abide isnt the same as actually being born again.

 

[marks]

Colossians 2 tells us that the born again have encountered a "circumcision made without hands".
Paul tells us the our old man, or sinful flesh is GONE.
He describes this as "put off", as if its a dead garment.
See it?

This is a Spiritual Circumcision.
A circumcision is where you remove FLESH..... in the natural realm, and God also does this to the "old man" our "flesh", when we are recreated as a "New Creation".
So, where charismaticlady and similar can't get it, can't see it, and can't teach it correctly, is that they cant comprehend that we are :

1.) New Creation, being circumcised SPIRITUALLY (without hands)= by God, AWAY from our "old man", the "flesh" who is now crucified with Christ, and has been "put off".

So, the born again, is the REAL you, its the Living Eternal you.
Your body, is the dying house, that is not the real you, and it, and the "flesh", that is the mind of the carnal man, are Dead, according to God.

So what is left is REVEALED as a "Son of God".
And this is not your body, or your "flesh" or your "carnal mind", or your "old man".
Heretics can not understand that the born again are no longer any of that....as we are a NEW CREATION.
So when we....the BORN AGAIN.... talk about what we are, who we are, and WHY, we are only to define ourselves as God has recreated us to be.
And that is the BORN AGAIN "new Creation" that has no sin, cannot sin, and will never die.
This part of us is 'ONE" with God, and "IN CHRIST", and there is no sin found there, and in THEM is where WE, as the New Creation Exist.
The Heretic only sees the flesh and the body, while talking a good game of "i understand that im a new creation", but as soon as they try to teach anything about it, they only offer the heresy that we are still sinners, and have indwelling sin.

OK, glad to see we're remaining on the same page!

:)

I think what some mean by indwelling sin is the presence of that old man, the body of flesh.

But I absolutely agree with you, this muddle of what's what, and who's who, is what robs people of the faith to walk in the new life.

Much love!

 

[Behold]

If you say that you have no indwelling sin, you are not born again (1 John 1:8).

You just rewrote the verse, and added to it.
Bad idea.
The verse does not say that these people are " born again."
God does not need you to rewrite His word to teach your heresy.
Fair warning.
The verse says they are are not telling the truth.
The Truth is not in them, they are deceived..
Or as John says about unbelievers who will not accept that they are sinners...."if we say we have no sin, = DECEIVED.

 

[Behold]

OK, glad to see we're remaining on the same page!

:)

I think what some mean by indwelling sin is the presence of that old man, the body of flesh.

But I absolutely agree with you, this muddle of what's what, and who's who, is what robs people of the faith to walk in the new life.

Much love!

Yes.
Always.
Dont let a charismatic drag you off into their legalism.
its what they live to do.
its their purpose and false ministry.

 

[Behold]

OK, glad to see we're remaining on the same page!

:)

I think what some mean by indwelling sin is the presence of that old man, the body of flesh.

Much love!

That body of flesh is dead.
Crucified with Christ.
The dead can't sin.
What heretics mean is that they have sin consciousness, which is like a hard drive that has been "wiped" yet, you can still find stuff on it.
Its "clean" yet, it has images..
So it is with the born again..
We are clean Through Christ, but sin consciousness can remain, and will, until by right believing we are freed from it.

See, one of the Reasons that God "found fault" with the law and commandments and the annual blood bath of animals, is because none of this can remove "sin Consciousness".
Hebrews 10:2 :
""For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more =consciousness of sins."""

See that?

That is telling you that sin consciousness CAN be removed, but not by the old covenant sacrifices..
But the one time sacrifice, the eternal redemption of Jesus, that we BECOME....does remove it.
However, you have to walk in the SPIRIT< which is to believe right.
Right believing is the Key to having the mind of Christ and not the carnal mind where sin consciousness can still exist.
Carnal minded heretics rant about "indwelling sin" and "being a sinner", etc.

 

[ChristisGod]

There is power in

You just rewrote the verse, and added to it.
Bad idea.
The verse does not say that these people are " born again."
God does not need you to rewrite His word to teach your heresy.
Fair warning.
The verse says they are are not telling the truth.
The Truth is not in them, they are deceived..
Or as John says about unbelievers who will not accept that they are sinners...."if we say we have no sin, = DECEIVED.

I've noticed this with several posters. Good job defending the truth.

 

[marks]

Yes.
Always.
Dont let a charismatic drag you off into their legalism.
its what they live to do.
its their purpose and false ministry.

Living trying to be accepted by your obedience is slavery to Law, and will result in the life of a slave.

Living as a son - the son abides forever - well, anything but slavery!

Much love!

 

[Behold]

There is power in

I've noticed this with several posters. Good job defending the truth.

Heretics rewrite the bible to suit their self righteousness.
The Catholic Cult created an entire bible to teach their deceit.
They have deceived billions in this world.

What real believers do, is Give Jesus THE Christ all credit due Him and Him alone for saving us and keeping us saved.
So, when you read or hear a person trying to take that credit as..."im doing this, or im not doing that, to keep myself saved", = they are stealing the Credit from Christ and are become their own idea of being a saver.
They are in fact a "self savor".
This is legalism.
Its the devil's gospel.

 

[Behold]

Living trying to be accepted by your obedience is slavery to Law, and will result in the life of a slave.

Living as a son - the son abides forever - well, anything but slavery!

Much love!

Amen !!

 

[justbyfaith]

You just rewrote the verse, and added to it.

How so?

Bad idea.
The verse does not say that these people are " born again."

Right...it teaches that they are not born again.

Because the born again do not deceive ourselves and the truth is indeed in us...therefore we do not deny indwelling sin (1 John 1:8).

But apparently you have deceived a few people here in spite of my efforts to protect them from what you are teaching.

In which you have not only deceived yourself; but now you are deceiving others also.

 

[justbyfaith]

Living trying to be accepted by your obedience is slavery to Law, and will result in the life of a slave.

Living as a son - the son abides forever - well, anything but slavery!

Much love!

Of course, sons are also obedient to their Father...though not out of obligation, as a slave.

 

[marks]

Of course, sons are also obedient to their Father...though not of obligation, as a slave.

A son is a son, and a slave is a slave. The son who thinks that he should live as a slave, well, what did his father tell him? Bring the best robe, put it on my son! Shoes for his feet! Hurry! Put them on! He is a son.

And the son abides forever.

Our Sonship is based solely upon Jesus' obedience, and not upon our own. It's the recognition of the absolute truth in that statement which frees us to live in the freedom of the son/Son.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Of course, sons are also obedient to their Father...though not out of obligation, as a slave.

Legalism is rating yourself according to Law, liberty and grace are that you do whatever you want to, and nothing of it is wrong. Not because sin is winked at, but because you are not under it's power.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

We will be obedient as sons.

 

[marks]

We will be obedient as sons.

Live as a son. Not in fear.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But apparently you have deceived a few people here in spite of my efforts to protect them from what you are teaching.

What is the deception, exactly?

 

[Jay Ross]

Addressing only the OP, I still see the same situation occurring.

Ah! I see that the fighting over the law continues.

It goes: -

Nay, I am right and you are wrong, from both sides of the argument.

 

[justbyfaith]

What is the deception, exactly?

The very deception that is spoken of in 1 John 1:8...

@Behold wants to convince you, and perhaps has convinced you, that it does not apply to the believer.

And, in reading over what I have taught in times past, I see that I have also taught this in a slightly different manner.

Commentary on Romans. (posted April 18, 2019)

I do believe that my take on it is more accurate than his.

 

[marks]

The very deception that is spoken of in 1 John 1:8...

@Behold wants to convince you, and perhaps has convinced you, that it does not apply to the believer.

And, in reading over what I have taught in times past, I see that I have also taught this in a slightly different manner.

(will post a link shortly).

The fact is, if any be in Christ, he is a new creation. He is a new creation. He is not a combo of the old and new creation, rather, all things are become new, Now all things are of God. All things. Not some things. Not, Part of me. All of me. I'm am fully new in Christ, and I am, according to God, righteous and truly holy. Embrace that!

Your insistence is that we identify with the source of sin, that is, with the old man, but I am not the old man.

In the words of my wife . . . this is a hard thing to get one's mind around . . .

But once you understand this, you can be from from the sins that plague. I know this is true.

You express concern that I am being deceived, because I say that I have no sin, but listen carefully . . . I have no sin in the new man. The new man is created patterned after God in righteousness and true holiness. If you are righteous and truly holy, where is your sin?

We remain living in corrupt bodies. But we control them, they only control us if we actually are deceived into thinking that they have any power at all.

Much love!