• Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

dev553344

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2020
14,528
17,216
113
USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Its Pauline Theology, Devin.
Go study it, and you'll know exactly what im teaching wherever i go in this world , including on this Forum.

Thanks, yes Paul's writings often contradict Christ's and the Apostles teachings if not properly interpreted into harmony with first, Jesus' teachings, then second the Apostles teachings, and then lastly Paul's teachings. Since Paul was a killer of early Christians, many people often throw his teachings out when there is conflict with other teachings, something I don't do. Pauline Christianity - Wikipedia

But yes anyone can have grace. And the fact that we now have science, and that science spells out what kind of power would be necessary to create the Universe. This shows us that God with all his almighty power, can take just ultra tiny amounts of that power and heal and resurrect the tiny lifeforms here on earth. So in a way your correct and in a way your wrong. While humans don't have the same type of grace as God, we can work in grace, and I think someone working on delicate artwork or delicate surgeries would show that capability.
 
Last edited:

David H.

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
2,482
1,916
113
55
michigan
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It's because you keep saying wrong things of me without any discernable foundation. Only that I disagree with your point of view.

Some of the things you say of me really rise no higher than slander. Such as this supposed "offense". Pardon me for saying so, but it's ignorant slander.

Let's apply a little critical reasoning, shall we? Your claim is that I'm not submitted to God,

I Never made that claim, you assumed i made that claim. I Merely spoke what i see as the problem in this doctrine, that "offense" you "feel" and read into my comment is the Holy Ghost and His conviction, You should seek his guidance on why what I am saying "offends" you, instead of assuming my intent is to condemn you, I never write from that perspective, my intent is only to share what the Holy Ghost has shown me. I Have no control over what your response is to the conviction of the Holy Ghost, some, most in fact are offended, some find repentance, and the continual need for Christ and the cross.

Do you believe that you can live sanctified NOW, by trusting Jesus for that NOW?

God's Holy Character requires that he refuse to admit sin into his fellowship. Thus the work of the cross is twofold, one is to save people from their sins, the other is to restore that fellowship with God, by purifying the vessel.

When God sees us here on earth he sees his Son's blood applied to us as an atonement for sin. This allows us to commune with God, but not to enter into his presence. A Holy God cannot have sin in his Presence.

Thus the sanctification of the cross is a lifelong process, not a one time thing. What most who do not understand this think is that we have need of nothing more, which creates a rut in their Spiritual maturation process, they get stuck in a state of immaturity spiritually. They are stuck in a fallacy of a work finished in them, which is not true, as the second work of making the vessel holy for the presence of God must come next. From faith to faith, or to "continue in the faith". (Acts 14:22, Colossians 1:23) Read particularly the acts 14 passage in context, as this is the mark of an elder, a presbyter in the church, One who through much tribulation continues in the faith.

As I have spoken with you before, this is the Laodicean mindset, which leads to and empowers the Nicolaitan priestly class, which keeps the babes suckling on the milk of doctrine rather than maturing into elders themselves. Read Ephesians 4:14-15. The fact that you are having a hard time grasping these things, and they offend you is telling of where you stand, But at the same time you are torn wanting to discuss this, so you are still searching for the truth and the fulness of Christ. In other words, you have not yet resisted the conviction of the Holy Ghost to the point of hardening your heart, and I commend you for this.

My question for you is, in all our debates and discussions together have you grown spiritually? You see, fellowship is not always encouragement and edification, but many times it is rebuke and correction, and being challenged by what the other Brother in Christ is saying through the Holy Ghost. When we understand that we all know in part, is when we earnestly seek this fellowship rather than using these disagreements to divide us, and when this happens the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace begins to take over..... Without the law, we cannot know what grace is as the Law is the schoolmaster that leads to grace. (Galatians 3:22-25), and it is that righteous requirement of the law that we are being purified for to be allowed into the presence of a Holy God.

So like a teenage who thinks they know it all, most Christians live in a state of infancy and suckling rather than eating the meat of the word. It is time to lay aside that divisive attitude and move on to maturity, which begins with acknowledging that we Know in part, and that in fellowship we will know more and in unity will His presence manifest amongst us.... where two or three are gathered in His name.... this is the foundation of revival, as revival can only come when enough people are not satisfied with where they are at and know they are in need of more. More of Christ, and on to fulness in Him!!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,708
21,781
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I Never made that claim, you assumed i made that claim. I Merely spoke what i see as the problem in this doctrine, that "offense" you "feel" and read into my comment is the Holy Ghost and His conviction, You should seek his guidance on why what I am saying "offends" you, instead of assuming my intent is to condemn you, I never write from that perspective, my intent is only to share what the Holy Ghost has shown me. I Have no control over what your response is to the conviction of the Holy Ghost, some, most in fact are offended, some find repentance, and the continual need for Christ and the cross.



God's Holy Character requires that he refuse to admit sin into his fellowship. Thus the work of the cross is twofold, one is to save people from their sins, the other is to restore that fellowship with God, by purifying the vessel.

When God sees us here on earth he sees his Son's blood applied to us as an atonement for sin. This allows us to commune with God, but not to enter into his presence. A Holy God cannot have sin in his Presence.

Thus the sanctification of the cross is a lifelong process, not a one time thing. What most who do not understand this think is that we have need of nothing more, which creates a rut in their Spiritual maturation process, they get stuck in a state of immaturity spiritually. They are stuck in a fallacy of a work finished in them, which is not true, as the second work of making the vessel holy for the presence of God must come next. From faith to faith, or to "continue in the faith". (Acts 14:22, Colossians 1:23) Read particularly the acts 14 passage in context, as this is the mark of an elder, a presbyter in the church, One who through much tribulation continues in the faith.

As I have spoken with you before, this is the Laodicean mindset, which leads to and empowers the Nicolaitan priestly class, which keeps the babes suckling on the milk of doctrine rather than maturing into elders themselves. Read Ephesians 4:14-15. The fact that you are having a hard time grasping these things, and they offend you is telling of where you stand, But at the same time you are torn wanting to discuss this, so you are still searching for the truth and the fulness of Christ. In other words, you have not yet resisted the conviction of the Holy Ghost to the point of hardening your heart, and I commend you for this.

My question for you is, in all our debates and discussions together have you grown spiritually? You see, fellowship is not always encouragement and edification, but many times it is rebuke and correction, and being challenged by what the other Brother in Christ is saying through the Holy Ghost. When we understand that we all know in part, is when we earnestly seek this fellowship rather than using these disagreements to divide us, and when this happens the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace begins to take over..... Without the law, we cannot know what grace is as the Law is the schoolmaster that leads to grace. (Galatians 3:22-25), and it is that righteous requirement of the law that we are being purified for to be allowed into the presence of a Holy God.

So like a teenage who thinks they know it all, most Christians live in a state of infancy and suckling rather than eating the meat of the word. It is time to lay aside that divisive attitude and move on to maturity, which begins with acknowledging that we Know in part, and that in fellowship we will know more and in unity will His presence manifest amongst us.... where two or three are gathered in His name.... this is the foundation of revival, as revival can only come when enough people are not satisfied with where they are at and know they are in need of more. More of Christ, and on to fulness in Him!!
Do you realize this is a long ad hominem? How useful is that?

How can you see others through all the presumption? I wonder if you can.
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,708
21,781
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thus the sanctification of the cross is a lifelong process, not a one time thing.
It all hinges on this . . . are we being more sanctified, or is our mind being renewed?

The Bible speaks of our minds being renewed.

You speak of me . . .

My question for you is, in all our debates and discussions together have you grown spiritually?

My question is, Have you?

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,708
21,781
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
in all our debates and discussions together have you grown spiritually
In all our discussions, have you give serious consideration to my question.

You've neglected to answer me, and it doesn't matter if you do. Just the same, it matters for your life how you answer.

Do you believe you can live sanctified NOW, in trusting Jesus that He can make this so for you NOW?

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,708
21,781
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I Never made that claim, you assumed i made that claim.
You've stated over and over that I'm offended by your teaching. Do you think that is true?

This is coming across as passive aggression. Make your snipe attacks, then, OH! I don't ACTUALLY say that!

Will you be sufficiently bold to let your yes be yes and your no to be no? Will you say what you think and believe without equivocation?

What about . . . leaving your personal views of others out of the mix? Sticking to the Bible? What about that?

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,708
21,781
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
As I have spoken with you before, this is the Laodicean mindset, which leads to and empowers the Nicolaitan priestly class,
This may be your life, but that doesn't mean it's everybody's life.

Maybe you have a background in liturgical churches, or in churches were you have staff and customers, or something, I don't know. It seems the majority of your posts to me are about me, and your low opinions of me.

What praytell is the "Laodicean mindset"? That I believe Jesus is my sanctification? That by trusting in Jesus we can walk in His sanctification? That you can live in complete sanctification right now?

Be it to you according to your faith!

Much love!
 

David H.

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2020
2,482
1,916
113
55
michigan
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In all our discussions, have you give serious consideration to my question.

You've neglected to answer me, and it doesn't matter if you do. Just the same, it matters for your life how you answer.

Do you believe you can live sanctified NOW, in trusting Jesus that He can make this so for you NOW?

I Just answered that question, or can you not comprehend that.

Look above under the question quoted.... it begins with "God's Holy Character...."

What i write here is the foundation of the Holiness movement from which all revivals and gifts of the Spirit manifest. One says the work of Christ is finished once you are born again, the holiness movement sees the NEED for more of Christ and the desire to reach the fulness of Christ. Your question itself comes from the Laodicean mindset which says we are rich and in need of nothing (Revelation 3:17), Holiness is the solution to that mindset. For me it is More of Christ and less of me, I must decrease, He must increase (John 3:30).

Paul misunderstood doctrinally leads to this Laodicean mindset, by focussing on Ephesians 2:8-9, and neglecting Ephesians 2:10, and that is the root of the difference we are having here in this discussion. Holiness is NOT Legalism, quite the opposite in fact for it is dependent on the Holy Spirit to work in and through you, not you striving into asceticism, As do the monks, but All of us seeing the need for more of Christ and crying out and hungering and thirsting for righteousness..... this world and the country could surely use more souls like this, and this is how revivals are born.

Since we are sharing hymns, here is one for you....

  1. More about Jesus would I know,
    More of His grace to others show;
    More of His saving fullness see,
    More of His love who died for me.
    • Refrain:
      More, more about Jesus,
      More, more about Jesus;
      More of His saving fullness see,
      More of His love who died for me.
  2. More about Jesus let me learn,
    More of His holy will discern;
    Spirit of God, my teacher be,
    Showing the things of Christ to me.
  3. More about Jesus, in His Word,
    Holding communion with my Lord;
    Hearing His voice in every line,
    Making each faithful saying mine.
  4. More about Jesus on His throne,
    Riches in glory all His own;
    More of His kingdom’s sure increase;
    More of His coming, Prince of Peace.
More About Jesus > Lyrics | Eliza E. Hewitt (timelesstruths.org)
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,730
8,306
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, just by crying out to Jesus and repenting, Acts 2:38, we are cleansed/justified of all our past sin, and given a new nature by the gift of the Holy Spirit. We are no longer sinners, we are children of God who are free from the carnal desire to sin.

Grace is the divine power of God. 2 Peter 1:2-4

The blasphemy to teach that the grace of God lets us sin as usual, and God won't care is heresy. Jesus only has your past sin, reconciling us to a Holy God that SIN separated us from. We must be born again! Born powerful and righteous by the Spirit.
You cant earn grace.

Its blasphemy to teach Gods unmerited favor must be earned by any means.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
14,730
8,306
113
58
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So, God's "grace" refers to His mercy which we know is poured out daily on all mankind- even on the wicked and the ungrateful?
The fact anyone stands living and able to have the ability to one day chose to receive Gods gift is by Gods grace.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,708
21,781
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I Just answered that question, or can you not comprehend that.

Look above under the question quoted.... it begins with "God's Holy Character...."
No, I did not see an answer. Its a yes or no question.

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,708
21,781
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your question itself comes from the Laodicean mindset which says we are rich and in need of nothing
No. Again.

My question comes to you as a challange to your faith, as you claim we have spiritual lack even though we have Jesus.

Much love!
 

marks

Well-Known Member
Oct 10, 2018
33,708
21,781
113
SoCal USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Holiness is the solution to that mindset. For me it is More of Christ and less of me, I must decrease, He must increase (John 3:30).
Rather, faith.

Do you really think that you only have part of Jesus in you? Or that He's "partly" in you? No, God indwells you. You are complete in Him. Clear words of Scripture. Don't you believe them?

Much love!
 
Last edited: