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Featured Great falling away (is this happening now?)

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by friend of, May 3, 2019.

  1. It is happening right now (21st century commencement)

    3 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. It will happen in the future (apostasy will be even more dramatic than it is now)

    2 vote(s)
    22.2%
  3. It has been happening since Christ died and was resurrected

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Other (please provide explanation in response)

    4 vote(s)
    44.4%
  1. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    Adherence to Christianity is declining in many first world countries today. Christian persecution by sword is increasing elsewhere. It has become increasingly fashionable to hold Christianity in derision on this great mecca known as the internet. Counterfeit pharmakeia-addled spirituality permeates our social and emotional human diaphragm. My own generation (Millennial) has an observably decreased presence in Sunday worship activities due in no small measure to other worldly distractions, ineffectual teachers and empty self-indulgent promises. The pews are filled with snowbirds whilst the youth are barely seen. If over 80% of Christians in your average Church are seniors themselves, then where exactly is the new generation that's supposed to spring up to replace them, as has traditionally been the case for centuries?

    This decline is so noticeably dramatic in my mind when I contrast the state of churches today to the state of churches from hundreds of years ago. What does the future hold in store for so many congregations, so many of which can reliably be expected to grow anemic in the not too distant future due to staggering lack of engagement by succeeding generations? Is this concern being addressed by Church leadership adequately, acknowledged properly, or is it being brushed off? My own take on it is that we are truly witnessing a harbinger of that great falling spoken of in 2 Thes 2 at this very present time.

    The purpose of thread is to ask this question: Is that Great Falling Away as spoken of in scripture not already well underway at this present time in history? Or will this prophecy only be fulfilled when Christians are being systematically beheaded/killed across Europe, Canada, Australia, the United States, et al., sanctioned by their own governments? (futurist interpretation of tribulation)

    2 Thessalonians 2:1-4
    1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped[....]



    [Apologies for disturbing content]
     
  2. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Interesting topic, and one that's very hard to answer. Is apostasy happening now? Of course. Has it happened throughout the Church age? Undoubtably. Will it get worse? I think we must expect it to. But to what level? Will apostasy match rising persecution? I don't know we can say that...because while persecution is rising in many Asian, Middle Eastern and Communist countries, Christianity is actually exploding there. Where we see Christianity on the decline in here, in the 'Western' nations.

    Personally...and this is only an opinion...I think the 'great falling away' refers to a time in history where it is so...'uncomfortable' to be a Christian, that only those with a true faith will cling to Christ and claim him. So many people here in Western nations attend church and consider themselves 'christian', but are, in truth, what we would call nominal christians...those who have not truly met Christ or have been reborn of the Spirit. And as we see it becoming more and more culturally 'unacceptable' to believe what Christians do, thus we see a decline in Christian numbers.

    Will it get as bad here, as it does elsewhere, where our brothers and sisters are called upon to give all for Christ's name? Perhaps. And if it does, we can believe that only those who are truly his will stand up for him. It will truly be a weeding out of the wheat and tares...
     
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  3. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    This is true. Christianity is still springing up all over the place, like the fountain of living water it is, we just don't see all those won for Christ reported by the media.

    Yeah, I sort of think we're dead set in this direction right now, and it's only going to pick up steam.
     
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  4. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    Goodness no! That would be against their narrative! They don't even want to report all the Christians dying...why would they want to report all the people falling in love with Jesus?

    I agree. Your poll was a little hard to answer, as I think we're seeing it now, but I do feel it's going to get much worse.
    As a mother I fear for my children. I know I must rest it in the hands of God...but...how do you adequately explain to your kids that one day...maybe sooner rather than later, they might truly suffer for their faith? Even now we are being told our views are intolerant and bigotted. That's a far cry from being beheaded, I know, but as history tells us; in Germany or even in Venuzuela....things can, at times, turn around in under a generation.
    I think, as Christians, we all need to be ready, and prepared, to stand for our faith.
     
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  5. GerhardEbersoehn

    GerhardEbersoehn Well-Known Member

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    <The falling-away> has been with Christianity since its inception. But increase it will and at the moment is increasing. Very, very few see it happen though. Instead, the present trends in Christian theology let me write the following and post it on internet where I am active and not already banned,
    rather than
    <
    the subtle spreading of false doctrine by the devil[*]>, True doctrine is prevented and dismissed as false by false preachers doing the work of the devil that old enemy of Christ for him, RUINING SOULS by spreading false rumours about true doctrine.
    [*J. C. Ryle]
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
  6. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    The hearts of our children seem to be turned away from their parents, which came to mind as i was reading the op. The two seem to go together to me, or at least relate to each other. Imo that is a natural and likely often repeated process, and I suspect "the great falling away" might Ben speaking to our perceptions, but that's strictly a theory
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2019
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  7. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

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    Great falling Away happening Now?

    I would say YES.

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
  8. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    Good point.
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Guest

    I believe we are in the last half of Revelation 20 and the great apostasy first happened in Roman Catholicism followed by the 1800s crack pot prophecy "isms" and today's Charismatic movement.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2019
  10. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

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    My answer is NO; not yet.

    The apostasia ("a falling away") is shown linked with the appearance of that "man of sin" who is to sit in the temple of God (in Jerusalem), and proclaim himself as God, and even over all that is called God, or that is worshiped.

    2 Thess 2:3-4
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    KJV


    How hard is it for folks to understand that this coming Antichrist is going to work great signs and wonders that IF it were possible, would deceive even Christ's elect?

    That's what the falling away will be about, not about people today going the way of the world. There's a huge difference between being deceived into falling away to worship that coming pseudo-Christ as our Lord Jesus vs. not attending Church anymore.
     
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  11. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    Hi Davy thanks for your post. I was just wondering what you think those signs and wo des might be? I have some vague idea, but I'd be interested in hearing what others think the AC will do to do to convince the world to marvel at him.
     
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  12. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    I voted other,because of the" word "great".When satan gets kicked out of Heaven onto this earth,the whole world will believe he is Christ.That's when Christians will turn from virgins to whores.

    I did a post asking can people take the mark and still be saved,my answer was yes,because taking the mark is doing work for satan.

    The elect however,will not be deceived and when they are delivered up ,by the way that's the next time true tongues will be spoken

    Matthew 10:19 "But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak."

    This order that Jesus gave His disciples on their first missionary journey, is identical to the warning that Jesus gave to His elect, living in the final generation, recorded in Mark 13:11, and given above.

    This Speaking of the Holy Spirit of God through your mouth is the cloven tongue that was spoken on Pentecost day, that so many call the "unknown tongue" today. It was not unknown, for Acts 2:7, 8 specifies that everyone from all over the world heard the speaking in their own language. "And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, "Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans?' [7] "And how hear we every man in our own tongue [language], wherein we were born? [8] That means in their own neighborhood dialect. No interpreter was necessary.

    Matthew 10:20 "For it is not ye that speak, but the spirit of your Father which speaketh in you."

    That Spirit is the Holy Spirit of God that will speak in you. Any man can babble on, and pretend to speak a new language (gibberish), but no man can imitate the Holy Spirit of God. Babbling is confusion, and God is not the author of confusion. This tongue is the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit of God. As used in the final generation, Peter calls our attention to it in the Book of Acts.

    Acts 2:16 "But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel:" Quoting from Joel 2:28-31.

    Acts 2:17-21 gives us the entire quotation; "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:" [verse 17].

    When this happens a lot of people will come out of that confusion ,ie Babylon ,that's why God will say

    Revelation 18:3 "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies [by the power of her wantonness]."

    These demon infested people, along with the Kenites, dress themselves up today in their righteous robes, and make themselves smell as the fragrance of the spring flowers. They will also be transformed [disguised] as angels of light. They will be concerned for the little ones, the children, as they move to form Satan's final church. God's own children will be drawn in to them, because of the confusion taught in most all churches of today. Most pastors today simply do not know God's Word, or His plan for this age.

    All nations in this world will take part in this confusion, and moral pollution is taking place now. The ten kings, or authorities [agencies] will also commit the moral and spiritual fornication, along with this "City of confusion" [Babylon]. The one world system [United Nations], and the merchants of the earth are going to become very rich over supplying this Babylon church with her robes, her jewelry, her idols, and places of worship. The big thing in industry will not be guns, but trinkets for the one world religious system.

    Satan will come in peacefully and prosperously [Daniel 8:23-25], and he will preach the finest sermon most Christians have ever heard, so they will think [but it will be lies]. Satan is good at putting out the sweet talk, and though it sounds good, it will be a damnable twisted perverted lie.

    Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues."

    This is a warning direct from God through this mighty angel. "You come out of her, My people, that ye be not partakers of her sins."

    The plagues will follow after this warning, and if you are with her, you will receive the plagues also, for God is warning you; and they will come.

    Revelation 18:5 "For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities."

    The tower of the sins in this end generation, will be worse that the tower of Babel of Genesis 11, and God is about to destroy her, not scatter it. The tower of Babel was built also to draw the entire world together in one mind. Through that ancient tower, man tried to reach God, and be as God was, they thought. Today the tower now forming called the city of Babel will also be of one mind, and the singleness of this one mind is bringing about confusion. The sins of the people, and their hardness of heart are reaching into heaven, and God will remember every last one of them.

    As I keep saying,only Christians can be deceived as the rest of the world already are!!!
     
  13. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure I can agree with that.
     
  14. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Not Davy but would like to answer the question

    One must realize that satan is the anti christ and not a mere man controlled by him,he (satan) is supernatural,bottom line the whole world will think he is Christ,except for those with the seal of God.

    Two choices the Mark or the Seal!!!
     
  15. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    All good just not understanding why.

    2 Thess 2:3-4
    3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
    4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
    KJV

    The man of sin is satan,now let's go to the Book of Revelation

    Revelation 13:13 "And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

    The next verse is the answer to your question

    Revelation 13:14 "And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles [signs] which he had power [it was given him] to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live."

    This is the whole object for the great tribulation. "DECEPTION"! Satan is going to make an image of this "one world system" [religious beast] and breath life into system. Their will be something symbolic created within the system that will cause the whole world to bow. This reminds me of the "image" created in Babylon's "one world government" under king Nebuchadnezzar, in Daniel 3. At that time there were only three that would not bow to the image.

    This can't and won't happen until the below scripture

    Revelation 12:7 "And there was war in heaven: Mi'-cha-el and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,,"

    Revelation 12:8 "And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven."

    Revelation 12:9 "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Sa'-tan, which deceived the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

    The 2nd beast is satan as well.
     
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  16. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I see that the churches have opted for numbers rather than content...for quantity rather than quality. Success is being measured by worldly standards...more followers, more money.

    So from a worldly standpoint, there seems to be no problem.

    But with the natural build-up of religious adherents there is a converse spiritual falling away. A spiritual diluting of the truth.

    When there were few bibles, there was revival...at the early church stage. But with the multiplication of bibles and bible ownership did not come an explosion of spiritual life.

    The narrow road just got wider and wider to accommodate fewer and fewer real conversions. But there is a savvy among men. We know how to make things appear to be working. We are experts at that.

    So then either God didn't get the memo about how good we are doing...or maybe we aren't getting the serious nature of tampering with the truth.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
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  17. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    The Bible makes it perfectly clear that Satan and the Antichrist are not identical. The Antichrist is totally influenced, controlled, and empowered by Satan, but they are quite distinct from each other.

    And they worshipped the dragon* [SATAN] which gave power unto the beast [THE ANTICHRIST]: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? (Rev 13:4)

    *And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (Rev 12:9)

    I believe you were made aware of this some time back, but you continue to misrepresent what is actually found in Scripture.
     
  18. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    What??? You apologize for speaking the Lord's Truth?
    The real "falling away" will take place when the MoB is implemented. It really will be the dividing of the Goats from the Sheep, the wise virgins vs the foolish virgins.
     
  19. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    Because the world naturally hates Jesus. If the AC comes and tries to convince the world that he is Jesus, I don't see all of the atheists, antichristians and worldlings suddenly going "oh wow, Jesus! I love him all of a sudden!"
     
  20. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member

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    Furthermore, I think he will appear to have progressive answers to all of life's major questions and one of his draws will be the reconciliation of spirituality/religion. He'll be a leader in that area and popular with the New Aged be your own god mantra. He will war with Christianity, not pretent to be its fulfillment.
     
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