Guide To The Post Tribulation

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Naomi25

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I am not trying to convince you of anything.
I was trying to show you why I believe what I believe.
That's fine, and likewise, I was explaining how I disagreed. :)
 

Bobby Jo

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...Then will appear in heaven the sign of the Son of Man, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. -
Matthew 24:29–31
..
.

Ummmmmm, Donald trump was born in NYC and became President. So obviously the United States elected an INFANT. -- NO! There a sequence which is not a chronology, with some SEVENTY YEARS between the two.

So too, Jesus will Return, and after the trumpet call HE will gather his elect. -- AGAIN, a sequence but not a chronology, with a a THOUSAND YEARS between the two.

It confuses a LOT of people, but there IS an explanation! :)
Bobby Jo
 

Bobby Jo

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So why in the past 10 years have so many Christians shifted to the post tribulation view?
...

... because people have REALIZED the impossibility of defending a FALSE DOCTRINE; and haven't yet REALIZED that their SECOND CHOICE is ALSO A FALSE DOCTRINE. And of course the church WILL be raptured Post-Tribulation, -- A THOUSAND YEARS Post-Tribulation. :)

Bobby Jo
 

Naomi25

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We know who this so called antichrist is. It is Satan. He has deceived the church with false doctrine and theology. There is hardly any agreement on who is right and wrong these days. Satan has deceived the world with evolution and convincing people to call evil good, and good evil.
"Know"? This is a strong word to use when the texts would cast doubt onto it. I think we could undoubtedly say that Satan is behind the antichrist. That the antichrist is Satan's meat-puppet, if you will. But when we look at Revelation 13 we see the Beast, the representation of the antichrist, is given his power by the dragon...who is Satan. If the antichrist and Satan were one and the same, this would become confusing, no? You may suggest that, like the Trinity they share an essence, but no one is like God, sharing his attributes, so I must question both that conclusion and Satan's ability to do it.
Regardless, we are left back where I started....'know' is a strong word when scripture would paint a different picture.

The Day of the Lord is the next 1000 years. It is the final 1000 years of existence. The next few years is going to be the harvest of all living humanity. All will die one way or the other. Some will rise to reign with Christ at the beginning of the Lord's Day. The rest will rise at the end. But all will know who God is, and who the Lamb of God is. Even the dead below the earth. All prophecies have been leading up for the last 100 years to this final Day of the Lord. The book of Revelation in chapter 6 has already started. We are living in the last days of the church age. The church will be obsolete (for earthly purposes) and in heaven (the temple of God) very soon.
Again, I have difficulty with this idea. Granted, there is precedent for 1000 years and a day being 'interchangeable' in scripture and symbolic. However, by saying that it is 'the next 1000 years', you have locked in a time frame that is, quite frankly, date setting.
Added to that, as in my previous posts, I don't see scripture painting a picture of multi-phased resurrection; but a single on on the last day.
 

Avalon1

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... The part where we can't know the DAY or the HOUR, but we're not so stupid as to the WEEK; MONTH; SEASON; YEAR (1); DECADE (10); SCORE (20); CENTURY (100); DAYTONA (500); or MILLENNIA (1,000):

1 Thess. 5:2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

... and Scripture does not contradict Scripture, so you might want to GET YOUR UNDERSTAND CORRECT, because the audience you reference is NOT the same audience that PAUL is writing to, -- the Church.


Perhaps if you had a better grasp of Scripture, you too could know the YEAR; and then if you understood the FEASTS, you could also know the WEEK. -- OR NOT and be SURPRISED ...
Bobby Jo

Yeah that verse is frequently cited when defending the pre-tribulation. But I believe that God can come anytime in the mid-post tribulation too. The day these scriptures are referring to is the rapture, the day won't happen until after the Antichrist is revealed then the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. So that brings us to the middle of the tribulation and the rapture could happen anytime after that.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 (NIV)

"Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (MEV)

"Do not let anyone deceive you in any way. For that Day will not come unless a falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or is worshipped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself as God."
 

Avalon1

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... because people have REALIZED the impossibility of defending a FALSE DOCTRINE; and haven't yet REALIZED that their SECOND CHOICE is ALSO A FALSE DOCTRINE. And of course the church WILL be raptured Post-Tribulation, -- A THOUSAND YEARS Post-Tribulation. :)

Bobby Jo

The second coming and the 1000 year millennial reign will happen after the rapture.
 

Bobby Jo

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[QUOTE="Naomi25, post: 776193, member: 7237 ... you have locked in ... date setting. ...[/QUOTE]

Who said we can't know the: WEEK, MONTH, SEASON, YEAR (10), DECADE (10), SCORE (20), CENTURY (100), DAYTONA (500), or MILLENNIA (1,000)?!?

We're told we can know the DAY or the HOUR, but liars say (and the uninformed repeat) we can't know ANYTHING while Scripture says we SHOULD:

1 Thess. 5:2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.


Of course nobody HAS TO KNOW the YEAR and the Multi-Day FEAST (thus no DAY or HOUR) when Jesus will return, but we are admonished to KNOW!
Bobby Jo
 

Josho

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@Bobby Jo we still do not know the day or hour though.

Every time something bad has happened in history, there have been people that thought that it was the Great Tribulation.

End time prophecy is one of the things Christian's cannot agree on or all share the same view on, why's that?
 
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Naomi25

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Ummmmmm, Donald trump was born in NYC and became President. So obviously the United States elected an INFANT. -- NO! There a sequence which is not a chronology, with some SEVENTY YEARS between the two.
I'm sorry, but....huh? o_O What on earth does Donald Trump have to do with anything?


So too, Jesus will Return, and after the trumpet call HE will gather his elect. -- AGAIN, a sequence but not a chronology, with a a THOUSAND YEARS between the two.

It confuses a LOT of people, but there IS an explanation! :)
Bobby Jo

Generally any sequences happening over a frame of time, IS chronological, so you may need to explain your reasoning just a tad.
Plus, if you can provide any biblical verse specifying two separate 'coming' events separated by 1000 years, I invite you to provide it. Mostly, it just seems people are assuming chronological events based entirely on what they've read into scripture. That's assumption, not sequence.
 

Bobby Jo

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... I believe ...
Yeah, -- I used to believe in Santa, etc. But then I was informed.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-2 (NIV)
"Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."
Now that you've cited the verse FOR THE WORLD, -- read the NEXT VERSE FOR THE CHURCH. :)


2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 (MEV)
"Do not let anyone deceive you in any way. For that Day will not come unless a falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or is worshipped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself as God."[/
QUOTE]

Gen. 1:5 ... And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
WHAT?!? The anti-Christ will come before GOD even BEGINS HIS CREATION! That's incredible. Whod'a guessed that everything would over so quickly.


Really?
Bobby Jo
 

Josho

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This is my main problem (he he he which is not really a problem) with having a post tribulation view, it's one of the reasons why I have a pre-trib view. Here's a post from the rapture thread.

Alright I am jumping in, hopefully I don't get in trouble for my views hahaha.

Matthew 24:36-44

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. Then two men will be in the field: one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill: one will be taken and the other left. Watch therefore, for you do not know what hour your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched and not allowed his house to be broken into. Therefore you also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.

Now if we look at verse 38 and 39 "For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so will the coming of the Son of Man be. "

Now let me ask you all, was before the flood a time of tribulation? It didn't start flooding until Noah entered the Ark.

The others did not know until the flood came that weren't in the ark.

Then we go on to read verse 40, 41

"Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and the other left."

Verses 40 and 41 sound very much like a rapture to me.

Will those without the mark of the beast be working next to those with the mark of the beast during the tribulation? Both doing the same job?

Or does one get raptured and the other one left on earth before "the storm" (the storm in other words the Great Tribulation)?

If ones life was in danger, would he really be working next to someone with the mark of the beast during the Tribulation?. I mean Matthew 24:40-41 sounds like a peaceful situation before the storm.
 

Bobby Jo

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@Bobby Jo we still do not know the day or hour though.
...

What are you talking about?!? You know NOTHING, and then insist we can't know what we can't know, -- as though we can't know what we SHOULD KNOW.

Please think things through a little (read: LOT) more before posting nonsense. :)
Bobby Jo
 

Josho

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What are you talking about?!? You know NOTHING, and then insist we can't know what we can't know, -- as though we can't know what we SHOULD KNOW.

Please think things through a little (read: LOT) more before posting nonsense. :)
Bobby Jo

So what year is that day in?
 

Bobby Jo

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I'm sorry, but....huh? o_O What on earth does Donald Trump have to do with anything?
Generally any sequences happening over a frame of time, IS chronological ...

AGREED! So Trump was elected President as an INFANT! -- It's the same chronology YOU'RE USING, so I can use it TOO!

Bobby Jo
 

Naomi25

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[QUOTE="Naomi25, post: 776193, member: 7237 ... you have locked in ... date setting. ...

Who said we can't know the: WEEK, MONTH, SEASON, YEAR (10), DECADE (10), SCORE (20), CENTURY (100), DAYTONA (500), or MILLENNIA (1,000)?!?

We're told we can know the DAY or the HOUR, but liars say (and the uninformed repeat) we can't know ANYTHING while Scripture says we SHOULD:

1 Thess. 5:2 For you yourselves know well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. 3 When people say, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as travail comes upon a woman with child, and there will be no escape. 4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.


Of course nobody HAS TO KNOW the YEAR and the Multi-Day FEAST (thus no DAY or HOUR) when Jesus will return, but we are admonished to KNOW!
Bobby Jo[/QUOTE]


So when they had come together, they asked him, “Lord, will you at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. -Acts 1:6–7

Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. -1 Thessalonians 5:1–2


1 Thess 5 is not telling us we can know the 'times and seasons', anymore than the 'day or hour'. Its a call to 'remain awake'. Remaining awake means that a Christian needs to live like a servant expecting his masters return at any, and every moment. When we expect Christ's return at any moment, we will not be caught asleep or off guard, or doing things in the dark.
 
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Bobby Jo

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So what year is that day in?
I believe I've already explained the Prophetic Psalms to you, and you ignored it. So did you want me to waste my time again, or is it ok of we leave YOU in the DARK:

1 Thess. 5:4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

Is that a better rendition for you?
Bobby Jo
 

Naomi25

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AGREED! So Trump was elected President as an INFANT! -- It's the same chronology YOU'RE USING, so I can use it TOO!

Bobby Jo

So...you're suggesting, somehow...that the logic I'm using is akin to wedging a time-gap into when Trump got elected...making him an 'infant' then, and old now?
I'd dearly love to know how: 1) you arrived at that conclusion, 2) you see me arriving at that conclusion, and 3) you can back up the idea of me arriving at that conclusion.
Ta.
 

Josho

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I believe I've already explained the Prophetic Psalms to you, and you ignored it. So did you want me to waste my time again, or is it ok of we leave YOU in the DARK:

1 Thess. 5:4 But you are not in darkness, brethren, for that day to surprise you like a thief.

Is that a better rendition for you?
Bobby Jo

We are not in the darkness, because we expect His return, but it still does not mean we know what time or season He is coming back. But we know that Jesus is coming back, because He said so.
 

Bobby Jo

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... He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. -Acts 1:6–7 ...


EXACTLY! Jesus was addressing an ANCIENT AUDIENCE.


...
Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. -1 Thessalonians 5:1–2


Why do people only quote HALF a passage?!? -- This verse is written to the WORLD. And you've IGNORED the NEXT VERSE which is written to the CHURCH. So read the next verse! :)

...Its a call to 'remain awake'. ....

Your opinion IS NOT SCRIPTURE. -- Have you considered writing YOUR OWN VERSION? I hear the Mormons are doing quite well with their rendition. :)
Bobby Jo
 

Timtofly

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"Know"? This is a strong word to use when the texts would cast doubt onto it. I think we could undoubtedly say that Satan is behind the antichrist. That the antichrist is Satan's meat-puppet, if you will. But when we look at Revelation 13 we see the Beast, the representation of the antichrist, is given his power by the dragon...who is Satan. If the antichrist and Satan were one and the same, this would become confusing, no? You may suggest that, like the Trinity they share an essence, but no one is like God, sharing his attributes, so I must question both that conclusion and Satan's ability to do it.
Regardless, we are left back where I started....'know' is a strong word when scripture would paint a different picture.

Because Satan is the one who speaks like a dragon and the other Beast is the false prophet. They have been friends for a very long time. The false prophet is the one healed from a deadly wound. The featured false Messiah is the image of Satan and his mock creation of mankind in his own image like God did in Genesis 1:27.

Again, I have difficulty with this idea. Granted, there is precedent for 1000 years and a day being 'interchangeable' in scripture and symbolic. However, by saying that it is 'the next 1000 years', you have locked in a time frame that is, quite frankly, date setting.
Added to that, as in my previous posts, I don't see scripture painting a picture of multi-phased resurrection; but a single on on the last day.

The prophecies claim it is a Lord's Day. They see it as a single event. Even John wrote just 1 chapter as the whole history of that day, as if it were one day. It does last 1000 years.