Have any of you considered leaving the United States?
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LOL, like the prophet Elijah we can run away from our "Jezebel-like" enemies and try to hide ourselves in a cave:
"And he came thither unto a cave, and lodged there; and, behold, the word of the LORD came to him, and he said unto him, What doest thou here, Elijah?
And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away." I Kings 19:9-10
Elijah, a man of flesh feared for his life and ran away, but God was there to ask him, "What doest thou here, Elijah?"
Do any of us suppose that our pleasure, happiness and comfort in this society of men of flesh are the most important things in our sojourn here as men? God had work for Jesus? Does He not have work for us?
"I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." John 9:4-5
"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world..." John 17:11
"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matt 5:14-16
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
I was watching the White House breifing today. I don't know why.. Jen Psaki just amazes me for some reason.
Anywho..
The first thing she starts talking about is Ethiopia and there is something happening there with people being starved to death and a humanitarian crisis. The U.S is calling on the U.N to get involved. This was a couple hours ago so I haven't really looked into it yet.
I guess my question would be..
Where you going to go?
I think your better off being in a place you have some familiarity with. You at least understand the language. Faces that you recognize.
Now if your young and healthy and you want to go mountain climbing or desert drifting, then all the luck to you.
I'm 56 and disabled. I have trouble getting to my mailbox.
No, it's not going to matter where you go. It's going to get dark everywhere.
It's up to us to keep that light shining no matter what corner of the world we live in.
If the Lord wants you to move, believe me, you'll be moved.
Even though the world crumbles around you, keep your feet on the Rock.
Hugs
I'm annexing to my own country I'm starting and welcoming new citizens. I call it the house of Devin553344. Where we are all equal with our leaders. We all vote in our own laws and no one controls anyone but, you guessed it, me. So in the case of an even vote, I'm the tie breaker. Any takers? Hehehe 
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
But then again...
What was the wall for again????
Justice Department News Conference | C-SPAN.org
SMH
What was the wall for again????
Justice Department News Conference | C-SPAN.org
SMH
What about the land of the kangaroo?
In all honesty, if you want a conservative country, take a pick out of a few pacific island nations, some African nations or some Latin-American nations, even then though there is still corruption in those nations, I don't know if there is one country free of corruption. Some may not have abortions or euthanasia or other sin legalized, but the crime rates can be higher, El Salvador or Nicaragua may have a conservative government, Brazil may have a conservative government, Nigeria may have a conservative government, but look at how much corruption is in those countries and the governments don't look after the civilians that well in tough times, compared to UK or Australia where you can get government support and good affordable healthcare.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
Placing oneself in harm's way is the way of the gospel, but one shouldn't be seeking trouble. Or staying in trouble places. We can move to rural areas and go to the cities to minister.
Again, I have close friends from both parties, and I do understand their views, whether I agree with them is another matter altogether. It is not just the growing secularism and godlessness, although that also perturbs me, of course.
I guess, I am sick and tired of the tribalism that is so evident so frequently here, the us vs. them mentality, entire families have been torn apart because of these kinds of differences especially in recent years. As Lincoln argued long ago, can a house divided against itself truly stand? I know no nation is perfect - but it's hard to argue any other Western country whose people are quite so fractured and deeply divided as we are right now, sadly enough. Even online is no escape from the viciousness and hostility these days, look at the people constantly fighting and threatening each other every day on social media, for example, which is partly why I no longer use those platforms.
If you want other examples, look at the rise of anti-Semitism on college campuses and universities recently, I know some Jewish people who have told me that they themselves are personally concerned over this development:
U.S. college leaders must confront anti-Semitism on their campuses
Or the Asian people who are frequently attacked all around the country (and I know many wonderful and kind-hearted Asian people, who have absolutely nothing to do with China's government and its actions):
More Than 9,000 Anti-Asian Incidents Have Been Reported Since The Pandemic Began
Or the fact that almost half of U.S. millennials nowadays believing that the government can and should restrict offensive speech (I am strongly against prejudice, but I think that restricting speech always tends to backfire, and sets a very dangerous precedence in society):
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-ta...with-limiting-speech-offensive-to-minorities/
And even from a non-religious view, how does one paint these kinds of things, such as the 30% rise in murder rate last year, in a positive or encouraging light? I doubt most European and Asian countries for example have such a significant increase in violence recently.
Murder Rose by Almost 30% in 2020. It’s Rising at a Slower Rate in 2021.
US crime rise not letting up in major cities - CNN
I'm sorry if I sound a bit discouraging, my friend. But these are just things I don't think we can always easily ignore. They seem to be symptoms of a much more serious and intrinsic growing problem in America. And though of course prayer and community obviously helps our situation, it nevertheless saddens me that there are not really any easy "practical" solutions.
@amadeus we can run away from where we are located, but if it is not the place the Lord wants us to be, it's not worth it.
God strategically places Christians in just about every country and perhaps even every state or most territories for a reason, what good would it be if every Christian ran away from Canada? Or what good would it be if every Christian ran away from California?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
March onward in the LORD , having no fear of man or to suffer or even death . THE LORD is with the lambs .
Immanuel . Well that means IMMANUEL my friends . Armour up cause times will only grow worse in this world .
Having all hopes and all affections above on Christ , let us march onward through the trenches , pointing to JESUS alone
as the only hope .
Immanuel . Well that means IMMANUEL my friends . Armour up cause times will only grow worse in this world .
Having all hopes and all affections above on Christ , let us march onward through the trenches , pointing to JESUS alone
as the only hope .
Well, conservatives and Christians are not necessarily one and the same, indeed, not even conservatism and religosity are one and the same. For example, the Czech Republic is Europe's most atheistic country, and yet most of them are conservative. Russia is socially conservative, and yet very few of their regularly attend church, and there is also a steadily growing number of atheists:
More and more Russians are becoming atheists - why?
There are genuine concerns which I think all Christians (regardless of politics and background) and even non-Christians should clearly acknowledge at this point, in the United States. Having lived there for a while, and having also been to other countries throughout my life, I think America does have very deep-seated and severe problems. And this is coming from someone who loved the United States with all his heart and being once. Other users here can list further spiritual reasons to be disillusioned by America, and we can of course have a theological debate, but as this is the Politics section, I will try to list more worldly ones also for further discussion:
For example, the national debt is expected to climb from $28 trillion in 2021, to a new high of $89 billion by 2029:
U.S. National Debt Expected To Approach $89 Trillion By 2029
House and Senate Democrats (and they are supposed to all about be "anti-war") supported a $716 billion military budget only several years ago, I'm not sure what the expenses are this year, but they are very likely similar:
House And Senate Democrats Vote Overwhelmingly For $716 Billion Military Budget
As Democratic Elites Reunite With Neocons, the Party’s Voters Are Becoming Far More Militaristic and Pro-War Than Republicans
Or the fact our students still lag behind those of other developed countries, especially in math and science:
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/
According to this book, Waiting for Superman: "The American public school system is in crisis, failing millions of students, producing as many drop-outs as graduates, and threatening our economic future. By 2020, the United States will have 123 million high-skill jobs to fill -- and fewer than 50 million Americans qualified to fill them."
https://www.amazon.com/Waiting-SUPERMAN-Americas-Failing-Participant-ebook/dp/B0042RU87M
An increasing number of American students are dropping out of college:
A Generation of American Men Give Up on College: ‘I Just Feel Lost’
National college dropout rates are a scandal, UC author says
Even as higher education becomes ever more costly and expensive (this affects both younger Americans and their families, many of whom try to help pay for their tuition costs over 4 years or more):
College is more expensive than it's ever been, and the 5 reasons why suggest it's only going to get worse
Even as this Newport Institute mental health report from 2 days ago confirms that there seems to a growing trend of narcissism among American youth adults who are self-absorbed and overwhelmingly obsessed with social media:
Social Media Narcissism in Young Adults
The USA suffered the highest number of mass killings in 2019, more than any previous year on record (not to mention the constant school shootings, which I honestly think is related to growing mental illness):
US saw highest number of mass killings on record in 2019, database reveals
Is Mental Illness on The Rise?| Banyan Mental Health
Suicide rates are on the rise also:
Ask The Psychiatrist: What’s Behind the Rise in Suicides? | Resource | Baptist Health South Florida
As are divorce rates, 40-50% of American adults nowadays divorce, according to the American Psychological Assocation, leading to further broken families, and children (both sons and daughters) growing up without stable role models and father figures:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...ndown-divorce-capital-every-state/1078283001/
And of course, drug and alcohol use are also steadily on the rise, with 32 million Americans using drugs as of 2018:
https://www.kolmac.com/why-is-drug-use-in-america-on-the-rise/
Our health care system in general seems to have real and substantial problems:
COVID Live Update: 234,733,501 Cases and 4,800,697 Deaths from the Coronavirus - Worldometer
(The USA has the highest number of deaths from the virus, at over 710,000 people thus far.)
https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/05/1...em-fail-coronavirus-test-cant-handle-covid19/
https://deseret.com/opinion/2021/3/...gland-failing-obamacare-nih-medicare-medicaid
This Asian-American author, Amy Chua, argues how America's identity politics have slowly gone from inclusion to division, and other findings show that we have also embraced a culture which glorifies victimhood in many shapes and forms, so much so that the traditional political and cultural attitudes have almost reversed:
How America's identity politics went from inclusion to division
https://reason.com/2015/09/11/victimhood-culture-in-america-beyond-dig/
The Left is Now the Right
Americans today are seemingly more narcissistic than people from other countries:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/.../201804/is-narcissism-the-cost-being-american
And even Americans themselves state they are the unhappiest they have been in 50 years, according to this article published last year, with only 14% of American adults saying they are "very happy":
Americans are the unhappiest they've been in 50 years, poll finds
And finally, on a religious level, well, there are now at least as many American with no religion as there are evangelicals and Catholics combined:
There are now as many Americans who claim no religion as there are evangelicals and Catholics, a survey finds | CNN
And while not directly related to America, there were 84,000 deaths caused around the world by Islamist extremism in 2017 alone. Washington Post also surprisingly criticized Christians in the West after the Sri Lanka attacks, choosing to blame people who were angered by the attacks afterwards, rather than the perpetrators which killed at least 250 people on Easter Sunday:
Islamist extremism caused 84,000 deaths worldwide in 2017, new report says
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...a-church-bombings-stoke-far-right-anger-west/
And of course -- add that to the sheer increasing vitriol of American partisan politics, which is obvious everywhere, and you have a very, very volatile combination, which I think everyone, not just American Christians, should be honestly very concerned about. Regardless of how we regard America from a liberal or conservative or independent perspective, this situation does not seem to be a normal or desirable one, and there is much to be disappointed in. How can one remain optimistic in the face of all of this? And the United States is not the UK or Australia - I would argue that we have much more complicated problems, which are much harder to reach consensus on, much less to tackle and properly address.
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bbyrd009
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i guess alot of ppl have bailed? The cost to expatriate has basically quintupled in the last few years
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Mantis
Well-Known Member
If I had to leave Murcia I guess my next choice would be Canada. They have big animals to hunt and far less people than the states.
ThePuffyBlob
Well-Known Member
everyone wanted to leave here and live in the united states hoping for a better future and yet you wanted to leave you country i guess most thought it's better to live in another country than to live in their own country not until they've realized how fortunate they were living in such a country
liafailrock
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That's my point also. No place is better. No nations on this earth were better regarding freedoms than the UK, The USA, Canada Australia and what was known as the Commonwealth nations. But the UK as much as hissed their empire away like pansies and the USA is degrading itself to the piggish mire of progressivism and other such doctrines. There is nobody left. However, this is how its prophesied to be in the end times and as we experienced before, our nations will again. That's when I have to agree with Nee that when we see these things, look up for your redemption draws nigh. But for this earth and especially us, things are not looking pretty at all.
Helen
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AMEN! @liafailrock …
The Spirit is our only safe place …sad thing is , not many pastors teach their flock how to do that …
The Spirit is our only safe place …sad thing is , not many pastors teach their flock how to do that …
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I am not saying that there is no positive change whatsoever in America. But at what cost, ultimately, and do the ends truly justify the means? Have we, perhaps, mistaken some of our priorities in recent years? That is what I wonder silently to myself. Things have become so chaotic everywhere, that even for Christians, it is sometimes not easy to be optimistic in such an increasingly hostile environment. Also, millions of Americans have become simply "cultural Christians" - they together and celebrate some holidays two or three times a year with their families out of familiarity, but they very, very rarely attend church, read the Bible or even regularly engage in genuine prayer and fellowship.
As to where to leave to, as some people have mentioned -- I don't think I will likely leave in the near future, but I have considered Eastern Europe as a destination. I suppose I just want a country with less anger, less internal fighting and less division than America, who still remember the little things, the simpler things, that matter. For example, I've heard that places like Denmark, Lithuania and Estonia are beautiful places. Maybe Ireland also, although I know they are much less religious than in years past. Or even South Korea and Japan, both are highly developed countries, and there we have ample opportunities to share the teachings of our faith.
I've also considered parts of Latin America, since I deeply love the Latino people and culture, having worked with Latinos extensively in the past, perhaps Chile or Peru, and somewhere in Sub-Saharan Africa. I've known people who have traveled there - and from most accounts, their people are VERY welcoming, warm and extremely friendly towards most foreigners, and they have a very strong sense of faith and love for Christianity.
I think should ever use balance and discernment, in all things and all ways. I mean, America today...I really have NO idea what we will be in 50-100 years time. I mean, if you look at history, ancient civilizations who went against God's laws were usually swept away and destroyed, until almost no trace of them remained. I just don't this to be OUR future also.
Of course, my friend. But have you closely interacted with people who really hate religion in general, who celebrate the decline of Christianity in Western society and especially the United States, who live entirely in the secular lifestyle and in the world? Because I have, and quite often, in real life and online. America has transformed from one of the most heavily Christian nations, to one of the most anti-Christian ones, in my opinion. I mean, of course it is better than North Korea, for example, but really, it has spiritually declined a lot. Even most Latin Americans are more Christian than we are nowadays.
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