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Featured Have you been baptised correctly?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Small Fish, Aug 22, 2018.

  1. Triumph1300

    Triumph1300 Well-Known Member

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    This has changed in the last 15 years or so.
     
  2. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    All of these Pentecostal groups started generally just after the beginning of the 20th century with William Seymour being one of the leaders. When the Oneness separated from the Trinitarians during WWI there was a third smaller group that embraced neither the Oneness nor Trinitarian doctrines but another way primarily under the leadership of William Souders. It is with this group that I have been loosely associated since 1987. My pastor, now 93, was mentored by Bro Souders for several months shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941.
     
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  3. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Sorry. My intention was not to cast a bad light on the AoG. I went to one here in St. Pete for a year or two.
     
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  4. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    My daughter and son-in-law attend an AoG. I have never belonged but visited a few times over the years.
     
  5. Naomi25

    Naomi25 Well-Known Member

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    @Willie T , @JesusIsFaithful , @Triumph1300 , @amadeus , @"ByGrace"
    Thanks for your answers and links.
    So...they kind of believe that it's one god that changes hats? Or...has a personality disorder? Not trying to be overly disrespectful (although I thoroughly disagree), but that's sort of how we'd describe it, yeah? One 'being' acting out differing people. Either they ARE different persons, or he's acting them out. Which would beg the question 'why'? I would think.
    And as far as baptism having to be in Christ's name...if Christ IS all of them, why would it even matter? In fact, it would almost matter less, wouldn't it?
     
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  6. Small Fish

    Small Fish Active Member

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    Then why had the people of Acts 19 to be baptised over again before they could receive the Holy Ghost?

    Acts 19:1-6
    And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
    2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
    3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
    4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
    5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


    And what does the word commanded mean in the Scripture you just given me?

    Acts10:48
    And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.


    They still had to be baptised in the name of the Lord.

    So why is this such a hard thing to do? Just obey the Father of Spirits and live.

    But no, because like Cain, the modern day chtistian knows better. History just repeating itself. Because the truth is despised

    Genesis 25:34
    Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright.


    How much prove do you need? And I have many other examples of direct disobedience besides the baptism that I'm still going to get to if the Lord permits.
     
  7. Small Fish

    Small Fish Active Member

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    Revelation 3:1
    And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

    Thou has a name that thou livist (but not Christ's name) and art dead.

    2 Thessalonians 2:10-11
    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
     
  8. Small Fish

    Small Fish Active Member

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    How can you say you love if you cannot give the truth that will save our souls. Love is corrective, not wishy washy and permissive. "Anything goes" is not love but deception
     
  9. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    And yet you come here accusing the saints. I fully expected you to be a satanist trying to sow discord under the guise of a Christian. These people have their fun then when they've had enough declare that they are giving up on Christianity and leave. I find it more offensive that you are serious about your legalistic and authoritarian approach to discussion.
     
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  10. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Here's your answer in the passage you quoted:

    And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.


    John's baptism was NOT Christian baptism. Therefore those who had not heard of the Holy Ghost needed to hear the Christian Gospel, and then be baptized as believers.
     
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  11. Small Fish

    Small Fish Active Member

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    If Satan upholds God's Word then he is doing much better than your so called saints. I've seen the saints and your not it.
     
  12. Small Fish

    Small Fish Active Member

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    But Acts 2:38 and Acts 19:5 is the only correct Christian baptism.

    Galatians 1:8-9
    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

    So it begs the question, where do you stand? Seems that the only skill modern christians have is to make the Word of God of none affect.
     
  13. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    Bye
     
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  14. Triumph1300

    Triumph1300 Well-Known Member

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    :)

    The Fish surely does not represent the United Pentecostals I know.
    His tone of discussion does not fit their description.
     
  15. lforrest

    lforrest Well-Known Member Staff Member Admin

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    We expect Legalism in a synagogue. Goes to show there are some everywhere, even in a charismatic church.
    Given time any place can get old and musty.
     
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  16. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    Well it does bring scripture into reproving such a notion when Jesus is referring to the Father & in other places to the Holy Spirit as a "he" rather than saying "I", thus separated from Himself. It would be read as deceptive to apply that false notion in Bible reading.

    Jesus also said that He could not bear witness of Himself, otherwise His witness would not be true. ( John 5:31 )

    Plus, by His words, Jesus said that two witnesses makes a testimony true in John 8:17 .

    That was why the Father spoke form Heaven and the Holy Spirit bore witness at Jesus's water baptism by lighting on Him to bear testimony that Jesus is God in fulfilling the prophesy in Isaiah 48:16-17 that the Lord God and His Spirit sent Him, the God our Redeemer that will teach us the way to go.

    Even though Jesus is the name to call on to be saved and the water baptism is done in Jesus's name in the Book of Acts, the Son is the Christ; the Bridegroom, the King of kings, the One that died on the cross for our sins so that we may be made the righteousness of God in Him.
     
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  17. JesusIsFaithful

    JesusIsFaithful Well-Known Member

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    Because they were disciples of John the Baptist's. They were not believers in Jesus Christ, otherwise they would have been water baptized in Jesus's name. Check out verse 3 by what water baptism they were under in being disciples of. That was why Paul told them about Jesus being the One John the Baptist was preaching about because they did not know in verse 4.

    Acts 19:1-6
    And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
    2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

    3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
    4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
    5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
    6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.



    Acts10:48
    And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

    The commandment to believe in Him is all that is required for salvation in receiving the promise of the Holy Ghost. The commandment to be water baptized in His name is the commandment in following Him as His disciples.

    Your thread was about the question about believers being water baptized correctly. The scripture provided earlier in another post is why it is not necessary for salvation, but it is a commandment; an ordinance for believers to follow as His disciples in being witnesses of Him to fellow believers and to any unbelievers in the midst of that event.

    Our birthright is not dependent on Jesus Christ and water baptism to save us. Jesus Christ can save us quite well without water baptism. That is not only the point, but the truth as read in scripture for all those that believe in Him, even in His name.

    Since Paul places the emphasis on how we are saved which is by believing in Him at the calling of the gospel, and not by way of water baptism, it should comfort any sinner should they find death at his door where they cannot even have the strength to call on Him to be saved, but they believed in Him anyway for which He has promised in His words on numerous occasions that they will be saved by believing even in His name.

    It certainly happened that way in Acts 10 when they did not come forward yet to be water baptized or even confess Him with their mouths yet, but by believing in Peter's words which was by believing in Him for the remission of sins, was when they had received the promise of the Holy Ghost at their salvation.

    John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
     
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  18. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    My friend I give the truth that I know and believe to the extent that I do. I was a part of Oneness Jesus Only long ago but knew when I left why I needed to leave. If I am anything it is most certainly not "anything goes".
     
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  19. Helen

    Helen Well-Known Member

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    If you check, you will find that when lforrest said "Bye"
    He was saying goodbye for all of us...small fish has now gone.
     
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  20. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit - in the bond of peace.
    There is -
    one body, and
    one Spirit, even as ye are called in
    one hope of your calling;
    One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
    One God and Father of all, Who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

    (Eph 4:3-6)

    Hello there,

    During the period covered by the book of Acts there were two baptisms in operation (by water & Spirit), but now, according to the sevenfold unity of the Spirit of Ephesians 4, which we in this present administration of grace are exhorted to 'Keep' there is only one baptism: and that is baptism 'by' the Holy Spirit, who identifies us with Christ in His death, burial, quickening and resurrection, and in which the flesh plays no part.

    Praise God!

    In Christ Jesus
    Our risen and glorified
    Saviour, Lord and Head.
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
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