Triumph1300
Well-Known Member
After this separation, most Oneness believers became relatively isolated from other Pentecostals.
This has changed in the last 15 years or so.
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After this separation, most Oneness believers became relatively isolated from other Pentecostals.
All of these Pentecostal groups started generally just after the beginning of the 20th century with William Seymour being one of the leaders. When the Oneness separated from the Trinitarians during WWI there was a third smaller group that embraced neither the Oneness nor Trinitarian doctrines but another way primarily under the leadership of William Souders. It is with this group that I have been loosely associated since 1987. My pastor, now 93, was mentored by Bro Souders for several months shortly after the attack on Pearl Harbor in 1941.Correction: I should have stipulated this part more clearly. The AoG moved away from Onness some time ago.
From the web:
However, it was not the Oneness baptismal formula which proved the divisive issue between Oneness advocates and other Pentecostals, but rather their rejection of the Trinity. In the Assemblies of God, the re-baptisms in Jesus' name caused a backlash from many Trinitarians in that organization, who feared the direction that their church might be heading toward. J. Roswell Flower initiated a resolution on the subject, which caused many Oneness baptizers to withdraw from the organization. In October 1916 at the Fourth General Council of the Assemblies of God, the issue finally came to a head. The mostly-Trinitarian leadership, fearing that the new issue of Oneness might overtake their organization, drew up a doctrinal statement affirming the truth of Trinitarian dogma, among other issues. When this Statement of Fundamental Truths was adopted, a third of the fellowship's ministers left to form Oneness fellowships.[75] After this separation, most Oneness believers became relatively isolated from other Pentecostals.[1]
My daughter and son-in-law attend an AoG. I have never belonged but visited a few times over the years.Sorry. My intention was not to cast a bad light on the AoG. I went to one here in St. Pete for a year or two.
Then why had the people of Acts 19 to be baptised over again before they could receive the Holy Ghost?What about this reference?
Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. 44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, 47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
The new Gentile believers had received the promise of the Holy Ghost before water baptism.
So is there a correct way to be water baptized? How important was it to Paul in regards to preaching the gospel?
1 Corinthians 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.........21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
So when I read a verse like this below:
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Mark is referring to the baptism of the Holy Ghost that is promised to all those that believe in Him to be saved.
and this verse below..
1 Peter 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Not water baptism when water is used in putting away the filth of the flesh, but the baptism of the Holy Ghost as that promise comes at our salvation by the answer of a good conscience towards God by believing in Jesus Christ and in His resurrection.
So there is no separate baptism of the Holy Ghost apart from the born again of the Spirit moment when a believer is saved.
Water baptism is just an ordinance for believers to follow Christ as His disciple, but it is not a requirement for salvation and therefore no correct way to be water baptized.
How can you say you love if you cannot give the truth that will save our souls. Love is corrective, not wishy washy and permissive. "Anything goes" is not love but deceptionDo you only read and pay attention to what pleases you and agrees with you? Even if you were right in every point, a lack of charity would leave you with nothing in the eyes of God. You cannot twist arms to convince people of truth. Only God gives the increase.
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing." I Cor 13:1-3
"I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase." I Cor 3:6-7
How can you say you love if you cannot give the truth that will save our souls. Love is corrective, not wishy washy and permissive. "Anything goes" is not love but deception
Here's your answer in the passage you quoted:Then why had the people of Acts 19 to be baptised over again before they could receive the Holy Ghost?
If Satan upholds God's Word then he is doing much better than your so called saints. I've seen the saints and your not it.And yet you come here accusing the saints. I fully expected you to be a satanist trying to sow discord under the guise of a Christian. These people have their fun then when they've had enough declare that they are giving up on Christianity and leave. I find it more offensive that you are serious about your legalistic and authoritarian approach to discussion.
But Acts 2:38 and Acts 19:5 is the only correct Christian baptism.Here's your answer in the passage you quoted:
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
John's baptism was NOT Christian baptism. Therefore those who had not heard of the Holy Ghost needed to hear the Christian Gospel, and then be baptized as believers.
ByeIf Satan upholds God's Word then he is doing much better than your so called saints. I've seen the saints and your not it.
The Fish surely does not represent the United Pentecostals I know.
His tone of discussion does not fit their description.
@Willie T , @JesusIsFaithful , @Triumph1300 , @amadeus , @"ByGrace"
Thanks for your answers and links.
So...they kind of believe that it's one god that changes hats? Or...has a personality disorder? Not trying to be overly disrespectful (although I thoroughly disagree), but that's sort of how we'd describe it, yeah? One 'being' acting out differing people. Either they ARE different persons, or he's acting them out. Which would beg the question 'why'? I would think.
And as far as baptism having to be in Christ's name...if Christ IS all of them, why would it even matter? In fact, it would almost matter less, wouldn't it?
Then why had the people of Acts 19 to be baptised over again before they could receive the Holy Ghost?
And what does the word commanded mean in the Scripture you just given me?
They still had to be baptised in the name of the Lord.
So why is this such a hard thing to do? Just obey the Father of Spirits and live.
But no, because like Cain, the modern day chtistian knows better. History just repeating itself. Because the truth is despised
Genesis 25:34
Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright.
How much prove do you need? And I have many other examples of direct disobedience besides the baptism that I'm still going to get to if the Lord permits.
My friend I give the truth that I know and believe to the extent that I do. I was a part of Oneness Jesus Only long ago but knew when I left why I needed to leave. If I am anything it is most certainly not "anything goes".How can you say you love if you cannot give the truth that will save our souls. Love is corrective, not wishy washy and permissive. "Anything goes" is not love but deception
My friend I give the truth that I know and believe to the extent that I do. I was a part of Oneness Jesus Only long ago but knew when I left why I needed to leave. If I am anything it is most certainly not "anything goes".