I recall Jesus referring to the lake of fire as an everlasting punishment where there will be lots of crying and gnashing of teeth. But I also recall Jesus stating that hell was prepared specifically for Satan and his angel gang. So I've always had the view that if someone gets tossed in the fire, then they truly earned it. Who goes there will be entirely up to Jesus when it comes down to it. For all you know, the names of your unbelieving 'loved ones' might make it into the book of life. Do you believe that every single soul that ever lived will get tossed in the fire on the sole account of their unbelief even though they may never have heard of Jesus or even so much as the name "yahweh"?
Do you believe they get sent just because they aren't believers as is traditionally taught even though it is made plainly clear throughout the Bible that the judgement will be based primarily on their works? I think this is the real issue you are having with the idea of eternal torment. Its not so much it being a place of torment, but in who ends up getting sent there. The one thing I haven't been able to reconcile is the lake of fire being called the "second death", while at the same time its called an "everlasting fire". "Death" entails a finality, "everlasting" entails the exact opposite..So which one is it?? Its the eternality of hell that many, some who call themselves 'annihilationists' have an issue with.
You state: I recall Jesus referring to the lake of fire as an everlasting punishment where there will be lots of crying and gnashing of teeth. But I also recall Jesus stating that hell was prepared specifically for Satan and his angel gang. So I've always had the view that if someone gets tossed in the fire, then they truly earned it. Who goes there will be entirely up to Jesus when it comes down to it.
In Reply, it should likewise be recalled that when our Lord spoke in general, to the public he spoke in parables and dark sayings utilizing many metaphors and symbolism's in his messages that seeing they see not and hearing they hear not, nor do they understand (
Matt 13:13). Only to his disciples did he fully explain what he truly meant to be understood, the rest would be brought to their attention and understanding following Pentecost and their receiving of the Holy Spirit.
As it is written, “…it has been given to
you (the true Church) to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to
them (both the world and the professing Church, nominal Christians)
it has not been given.”
You state: For all you know, the names of your unbelieving 'loved ones' might make it into the book of life. Do you believe that every single soul that ever lived will get tossed in the fire on the sole account of their unbelief even though they may never have heard of Jesus or even so much as the name "yahweh"?
In Reply, first of all as stated in my first reply I believe as the scriptures so teach, the “
wages of sin is death” (
Rom 6:23) “
By one man sin entered into the world and DEATH by (as a consequence)
of sin.” (
Rom 5:12) As for the idea that any should be eternally consigned to death merely because they felled to believe (due mostly to the confusion coming out of Babylon, the professing Church) and/or that they were never even made acquainted with the one name under the heavens by which they might be saved we whole heartily disagree.
We (that is speaking as a Bible Student) have already made our position clear on this issue, see
Post # 81 under “
What Makes a Bible Version a Paraphrase?”
You asked: Do you believe they get sent just because they aren't believers as is traditionally taught even though it is made plainly clear throughout the Bible that the judgement will be based primarily on their works?
In Reply,
Presently (and this applies only to the Church,
NOT to mankind in general, the non-believing world)
we are being
judged according to our faith, of course works in conjunction with faith (Not any works to secure our salvation mind you, that has already been fully taken care of), but works in respects to doing good to all men, but especially those of the household of faith are acceptable through Christ Jesus our Lord and prerequisite of all those who aspire to have a share in the kingdom of God.
In the next age however when the knowledge of the Lord covers the earth even as the waters cover the sea, faith will not be as necessary as it is now, instead the world will be
judged according to their works. (
Rev 20:12) This is explained more thoroughly in our blog post entitled, “
The Parable of the Sheep and the Goats”
You state: I think this is the real issue you are having with the idea of eternal torment. It’s not so much it being a place of torment, but in who ends up getting sent there.
In Reply, Actually we have no issue with the doctrine of “
eternal torment” except that it continues to be a plague upon the professing church, but this is as the Lord stated it would be,
they (the professing church) have chosen to believe the “
lie”, the lie of the Adversary that “
thou shall not surely die”, and so one lie being built upon the next they concoct
another false doctrine to lend support to the previous one, in this instance
the doctrine of the immortality of the soul, this in turn supports the next lie, that of
eternal torment as the wages of sin. Since the soul as they imagine is immortal they believe that the sinner or non-believer cannot die and therefore a place (the Hell of their imaginations) must be created to contain all these lost souls that they might suffer there eternally for their sins.
Poor deluded souls truly as the Lord has stated, “
the fear (imaginings, the torment)
of man brings a snare.”
You state: The one thing I haven't been able to reconcile is the lake of fire being called the "second death", while at the same time it’s called an "everlasting fire". "Death" entails finality; "everlasting" entails the exact opposite. So which one is it?? It’s the eternality of hell that many, some who call themselves 'annihilationist' have an issue with.
In Reply, This is rather simple to understand when rightly understood. The reward of those who pass the final test at the end of the next age during the “
little season” is said to be
everlasting life, for those who fell this test it is the exact opposite
everlasting death.
The Lake of fire well symbolizes the second death from which there is to be no future possibility of a resurrection; it represents well the complete destruction of all that is casts into it. Symbolically it is an
everlasting fire, one which is not quenched until it shall have accomplished its purpose of complete destruction.
That which is completely destroyed no longer exists. Have you ever heard of a persevering fire? I think not, because there is no such thing.
Death is the end or cessation of life; it’s being called everlasting simply implies the length of that death is eternal, everlasting death, a death that will last through all eternity, a lasting or perpetual destruction, an everlasting extinction of being, of existence.
Understand its not the state of dying that last forever its the death of the individual that is to last forever.
"
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God [the pronounced penalty for sin, the curse, the sentence, death] abides on him." "
The soul that sins it shall die." "
The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."--
John 3:36; Ezek. 18:20; Rom. 6:23; 1 John 5:12.