Help police! KJV is taking away my freedom of religion in USA reading another Bible versions!

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Adventageous

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You keep telling us how corrupt the NWT is Enoch.....show us some examples
#18.

1 Samuel 13:1

1 Sam 13:1 KJB - Saul reigned one year; and when he had reigned two years over Israel,

1 Sam 13:1 HOT - בן־שׁנה שׁאול במלכו ושׁתי שׁנים מלך על־ישׂראל׃​

The Geneva, Young's Literal, The Living Bible, etc, and even Jerome's Latin Vulgate gets this right.

Yet:

NWT:

1 Sam 13:1 NWT - Saul was . . .* years old when he became king, a and for two years he reigned over Israel.

Acts 13:21 NWT - But afterward they demanded a king,+ and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin,+ for 40 years.​

Contradiction of 2. 40.

NIV:


1 Sam 13:1 NIV [©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011] - Saul was thirty[a] years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty- two years.

Acts 13:21 NIV - Then the people asked for a king, and he gave them Saul son of Kish, of the tribe of Benjamin, who ruled forty years.​

a. 1 Sam 13:1 A few late manuscripts of the Septuagint; Hebrew does not have thirty.
b. 1 Sam 13:1 Probable reading of the original Hebrew text (see Acts 13:21); Masoretic Text does not have forty-.​

Contradiction. 42. 40. No Hebrew for 30.

In fact the so-called LXX, LXX+ [Strong's and Robinson's Morphological Analysis codes], and Brenton's LXX, I have on E-sword does NOT list 1 Sam 13:1, it is MISSING, DELETED as in the GNT.

ESV:


1 Sam 13:1 ESV - Saul lived for one year and then became king, and when he had reigned for two years over Israel,[a]​

NASB:

1 Sam 13:1 NASB - Saul was [a]thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty two years over Israel.

Acts 13:21 NASB - Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years.​

Contradiction. 42. 40. No Hebrew for 30.

DRA:


1 Sam 13:1 DRA - Saul was a child of one year when he began to reign, and he reigned two years over Israel.

Acts 13:21 DRA - And after that they desired a king: and God gave them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, forty years.​

Saul was an infant as King?

NEB:


1 Sam 13:1 NEB - Saul was fifty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel for twenty-two years.

Acts 13:21 NEB - Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, who reigned for forty years ...​

Contradiction. 22. 40. No Hebrew for 50.

CEV:

1 Sam 13:1 CEV [Bible Gateway] - Saul was 30 years old[a] when he became king, and he ruled over Israel forty-two years.

1 Sam 13:1 CEV [E-Sword] Saul was a young man when he became king, and he ruled Israel for two years.

Acts 13:21 CEV - but the people demanded a king. So for forty years God gave them King Saul, the son of Kish from the tribe of Benjamin.​
a. 1 Sam 13:1 LXXL; Syr twenty-one; MT lacks a number; 13:1 is omitted in LXXB.

b. 1 Sam 13:1 Part of the number is missing in MT (… and two years) and all ancient witnesses. Acts 13:21 says Saul ruled forty years, as does Josephus (Ant. 6.14.9 [378]), though Josephus also says Saul ruled twenty years (Ant. 10.8.4 [143]).​

Contradiction. 42. 2. 40. No Hebrew for 30, or "young man".

MSG:


1 Sam 13:1 MSG - Saul was a young man when he began as king. He was king over Israel for many years.​

They didn't even try to attempt an accurate translation and just fudged it.

MEV:


1 Sam 13:1 MEV - Saul was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty-two years over Israel.[a]​
a. 1 Sam 13:1 Lit. “The son of a year was Saul in his ruling and two years he ruled over Israel.” Most translations read in Saul’s age and length of reign from external evidence (Josephus) or from the New Testament (Paul, who mentions a forty-year reign for Saul in Ac 13:21).​

GNT:

1 Sam 13:1 GNT - MISSING, DELETED

Treasury of Scripture Knowledge [E-Sword]:

"... reigned one year: Heb. the son of one year in his reigning, This verse is variously interpreted; but probably it only means, according to the Hebrew idiom, that, during the first year nothing remarkable occurred; but after two years (or in the second year of his reign), the subsequent events took place. Exo_12:5; Mic_6:6 *marg. ..."​
 

Michiah-Imla

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well in that case I s'pose we can dispense with Jesus!

No.

Dispense with Bible translations from corrupt men using corrupt manuscript sources.

Dispense with the garbage from the intellectuals who lean on their own understanding.

“Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” (Proverbs 3:5)
 

quietthinker

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No.

Dispense with Bible translations from corrupt men using corrupt manuscript sources.

Dispense with the garbage from the intellectuals who lean on their own understanding.

“Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.” (Proverbs 3:5)
I guess Jesus used the King James!
 

Michiah-Imla

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I guess Jesus used the King James!

If you’re happy with whatever translations you use, no problem.

But why you got a problem with the Authorized (King James) Version?

Why try to tear it down?

What spirit drives the opposition against a perfect Bible translation?

:contemplate:
 

quietthinker

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If you’re happy with whatever translations you use, no problem.

But why you got a problem with the Authorized (King James) Version?

Why try to tear it down?

What spirit drives the opposition against a perfect Bible translation?

:contemplate:
I doubt I'm tearing down anything except peoples egos. Definitely not the King James.
 

Adventageous

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I guess Jesus used the King James!
In essence, yes. The same texts that undergird the KJB (OT), are the same texts Jesus had. So, in effect, 'yes'. The KJB has the same texts undergirding that Moses himself had written.

Psa 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
Psa 12:7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

God has "inspired". God has "preserved".

The twin pillars of scripture.

One Christian has stated, that, "Divine inspiration without Divine preservation, would be a Divine waste of time."
 

Adventageous

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Now you descend into wild assumptions…

The same spirit that ASSUMES that the KJV has errors and additions to the text…
The real war is not over the KJB per se, but over a perfectly inspired and preserved word of God.

If we gave up the idea that the KJB was perfect in its words and came down to us from the time of Moses, and went with another in its place, they would assault it, for the idea of a perfectly inspired and preserved word of God, is anathema to them. It means they would no longer be able to sit in judgment of the word of God, but it over them as it should have been all along.
 

quietthinker

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Now you descend into wild assumptions…

The same spirit that ASSUMES that the KJV has errors and additions to the text…
I haven't made any assumptions re the KJV. However, consider how you've joined the dots.
 

Adventageous

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You keep telling us how corrupt the NWT is Enoch.....show us some examples
#19.

Mark 10:24

The NIV and NWT follow the same pattern:


The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), Delta, Psi, pc (no cursives cited by N/A, UBS), k, sa, bo-mss​

The extant literature which has the phrase:

"... A, C, D, E, F, G, H, K, M, N, S, U, V, X, Y
Gamma, Theta, Pi, Sigma, Phi, Omega

Cursives: MAJORITY
Old Latin: (a*), aur, b, d, f, ff2, g(1),2 , l, q
Syriac: Pes.hitta, Sinaitican, Harclean
Coptic: Bohairic
Gothic, Armenian, Ethiopic


... Also extant in 047, 055, 0133?, 0211?, 0257 ..." - A Closer Look: Early Manuscripts & The A.V.; by Jack Moorman, page 81

Additionally:

"... TAITAN, Diatessaron (I 10:87) ..." - Early Church Fathers And The Authorized Version, by Jack Moorman, page 43

Additionally:
"... Ruckman (54) p 17, states that the words are found in all four families of manuscripts. Berry's Greek text supports this passage. ..." - Manuscript Evidence for Disputed Verses

Additionally:

"... All these words - "for them that trust in riches" - are found in the majority of all texts, including the Old Latin a, aur, b, d, f, ff2, l, q, A, C, D, plus at least 21 other uncial copies, the Syriac Pesh.itta, Harkelian, Coptic Boharic, Gothic, Armenian, Georgian and Ethiopian ancient versions. ..." - Another King James Bible Believer
 

Johann

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#18.

1 Samuel 13:1

1 Sam 13:1 KJB - Saul reigned one year; and when he had reigned two years over Israel,​
1 Sam 13:1 HOT - בן־שׁנה שׁאול במלכו ושׁתי שׁנים מלך על־ישׂראל׃​

The Geneva, Young's Literal, The Living Bible, etc, and even Jerome's Latin Vulgate gets this right.

Yet:

NWT:

1 Sam 13:1 NWT - Saul was . . .* years old when he became king, a and for two years he reigned over Israel.​
Acts 13:21 NWT - But afterward they demanded a king,+ and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin,+ for 40 years.​

Contradiction of 2. 40.

NIV:


1 Sam 13:1 NIV [©1973, 1978, 1984, 2011] - Saul was thirty[a] years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel forty- two years.​
Acts 13:21 NIV - Then the people asked for a king, and he gave them Saul son of Kish, of the tribe of Benjamin, who ruled forty years.​

a. 1 Sam 13:1 A few late manuscripts of the Septuagint; Hebrew does not have thirty.​
b. 1 Sam 13:1 Probable reading of the original Hebrew text (see Acts 13:21); Masoretic Text does not have forty-.​

Contradiction. 42. 40. No Hebrew for 30.

In fact the so-called LXX, LXX+ [Strong's and Robinson's Morphological Analysis codes], and Brenton's LXX, I have on E-sword does NOT list 1 Sam 13:1, it is MISSING, DELETED as in the GNT.

ESV:


1 Sam 13:1 ESV - Saul lived for one year and then became king, and when he had reigned for two years over Israel,[a]​

NASB:

1 Sam 13:1 NASB - Saul was [a]thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty two years over Israel.​
Acts 13:21 NASB - Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, for forty years.​

Contradiction. 42. 40. No Hebrew for 30.

DRA:


1 Sam 13:1 DRA - Saul was a child of one year when he began to reign, and he reigned two years over Israel.​
Acts 13:21 DRA - And after that they desired a king: and God gave them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, forty years.​

Saul was an infant as King?

NEB:


1 Sam 13:1 NEB - Saul was fifty years old when he became king, and he reigned over Israel for twenty-two years.​
Acts 13:21 NEB - Then they asked for a king, and God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, who reigned for forty years ...​

Contradiction. 22. 40. No Hebrew for 50.

CEV:

1 Sam 13:1 CEV [Bible Gateway] - Saul was 30 years old[a] when he became king, and he ruled over Israel forty-two years.​
1 Sam 13:1 CEV [E-Sword] Saul was a young man when he became king, and he ruled Israel for two years.​
Acts 13:21 CEV - but the people demanded a king. So for forty years God gave them King Saul, the son of Kish from the tribe of Benjamin.​
a. 1 Sam 13:1 LXXL; Syr twenty-one; MT lacks a number; 13:1 is omitted in LXXB.​
b. 1 Sam 13:1 Part of the number is missing in MT (… and two years) and all ancient witnesses. Acts 13:21 says Saul ruled forty years, as does Josephus (Ant. 6.14.9 [378]), though Josephus also says Saul ruled twenty years (Ant. 10.8.4 [143]).​

Contradiction. 42. 2. 40. No Hebrew for 30, or "young man".

MSG:


1 Sam 13:1 MSG - Saul was a young man when he began as king. He was king over Israel for many years.​

They didn't even try to attempt an accurate translation and just fudged it.

MEV:


1 Sam 13:1 MEV - Saul was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty-two years over Israel.[a]​
a. 1 Sam 13:1 Lit. “The son of a year was Saul in his ruling and two years he ruled over Israel.” Most translations read in Saul’s age and length of reign from external evidence (Josephus) or from the New Testament (Paul, who mentions a forty-year reign for Saul in Ac 13:21).​

GNT:

1 Sam 13:1 GNT - MISSING, DELETED

Treasury of Scripture Knowledge [E-Sword]:

"... reigned one year: Heb. the son of one year in his reigning, This verse is variously interpreted; but probably it only means, according to the Hebrew idiom, that, during the first year nothing remarkable occurred; but after two years (or in the second year of his reign), the subsequent events took place. Exo_12:5; Mic_6:6 *marg. ..."​
Saul reigned one year,.... "Or the son of a year in his reigning" (s); various are the senses given of these words: some interpret them, Saul had a son of a year old when he began to reign, Ishbosheth, and who was forty years of age when his father died, 2Sa_2:10, others, who understand the words of Saul himself, think there is an "ellipsis" or defect of the number, and that it may be supplied, that Saul was the son of thirty or forty years, or whatsoever age he may be supposed to be at when he began his reign; others take the words in a figurative sense, that he was like a child of a year old, for purity and innocence; so the Targum,"as the son of a year, in whom there are no faults, so was Saul when he reigned;''or he was but a year old, reckoning from the time he was turned into another man, and had another heart, which was immediately after he was anointed king at Ramah by Samuel; or he was but a year old with respect to his kingdom: the inauguration of a king is "natalis imperil", the birthday of his kingdom, and therefore the words are well enough rendered by us, "Saul reigned one year"; which is to be reckoned either from his unction at Ramah, or rather from his election at Mizpeh, to the renewal of the kingdom at Gilgal:
and when he had reigned two years over Israel; which the Jewish chronologers (t) make to be the whole of his reign, which is not probable, considering the many things done in his reign, the many battles he fought with all his enemies on every side of him, and his long persecution of David; and there were no less than three high priests in his reign; Josephus says (q) he reigned eighteen years in the lifetime of Samuel, and twenty two years after his death, in all forty; which agrees with Act_13:21. Some interpret it he reigned two years well, and the rest in a tyrannical way; or that at the end of two years, when David was anointed, the kingdom was not reckoned to him, but to David; and to this purpose Dr. Lightfoot writes, that he had been king one year from his first anointing by Samuel at Ramah, to his second anointing by him at Gibeah (Gilgal I suppose he means); and he reigned after this two years more, before the Lord cast him off, and anointed David; and the time he ruled after that was not a rule, but a tyranny and persecution (r); but the sense Ben Gersom gives is best of all, that one year had passed from the time of his being anointed, to the time of the renewal of the kingdom at Gilgal; and when he had reigned two years over Israel, then he did what follows, chose 3000 men, &c. In the first year of his reign was done all that is recorded in the preceding chapter; and when he had reigned two years, not two years more, but two years in all, then he did what is related in this chapter.
(s) בן שנה שאול במלכו "filius anni Saul in regnando ipsum", Montanus. (t) Seder Olam Rabba, c. 13. p. 35. Juchasin, fol. 11. 1. (q) Antiqu. l. 6. c. 14. sect. 9. (r) Works, vol. 1. p. 55.
Gill

Guess he had it right?
 

Adventageous

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You keep telling us how corrupt the NWT is Enoch.....show us some examples
#20.

Acts 28:29

Act 28:29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.​

The NIV and NWT follow the same pattern:

The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:
P74, Aleph (Sinaiticus), A (Alexandrinus), B (Vaticanus), E, Psi, several minuscules, some Italic, Vulgate, Syriac, Ethiopic, and Coptic mss, and the Armenian and Georgian versions. ("...p74 S A B E Psi 048 33 81 1739 two lat earlier vg syr(p,h) cop ..." - Textual Variants: Acts 20:21-28:29 )​

Here is the extant literature which has the text in it:

"... are found in the majority of all Greek texts, as well as in such ancient versions as the Old Latin copies of ar, c, gig, p, ph, w, the Syriac Pes.hitta, the Syriac Harclean, Armenian, Ethiopian, and Slavonic ancient versions. ..." - Acts 8:37; 28:29

Additionally:

"... Most Greek texts, several ancient versions, and several church Fathers quote this verse (Chrysostom, Euthallus, Cassiodorus, Theophylact) ..." - Acts 8:37; 28:29

Additionally:

"... P 614 945 1241 2495 Byz Lect most lat later vg syr(h+) ..." - Textual Variants: Acts 20:21-28:29

Additionally:
 

RLT63

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So you need lawyers to prove that Ellen White is not a plagiarist? Even if she is not convicted of such a charge, what makes you believe that Ellen White was chosen by God to start the SDA believers on the path to God? What makes Ellen White more correct than say, Joseph Smith? He claimed to be a prophet too.

The one thing JW's do not claim is that we have prophets who are sent by God to lead people to salvation.
Jesus did not select 12 apostles because one man/woman, especially those who are as flawed by sin as anyone else, cannot dictate what Jesus taught. The body of Christ must be a body with several members who all fulfill the role that God assigned to them, as it was in the first century.
The governing body in Jerusalem was made up of the apostles and older men with spiritual qualifications. These were the ones who decided on the issue of circumcision....remember? When the apostles spoke, they echoed the words of their Master in unity, not in division.

Proverbs 11:14.... NET
"When there is no guidance a nation falls, but there is success in the abundance of counselors."

No one person should ever lead people in worship, as we can see where that leads in the multitude of sects in Christendom. They are usually followers of one man (or occasionally one woman) who lead Christ's disciples off after themselves, and what they say God has told them to do and to teach. Since they all teach different things.....who is to say, who is correct? We choose what appeals to our hearts without interference from God. He allows us all to be caught in the act of being our true selves. We can't fool him.

Jesus has allowed us in these last days to make our choices, and he will not reveal whether we are right or wrong until his judgment is made.
Only then will we know for sure if we were chosen by God, rather than us choosing him through someone other than Jesus Christ.

You have made up your mind and that is fine with me.....Jesus will tell us all whether we have listened to his "Faithful and wise servant" whom the Master will reward when he returns to find him fulfilling his assignment. (Matt 24:45-46)
 
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Adam

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We're all Christians and it doesn't matter what denomination you are or what Bible you read, what matters is doing what Jesus told you to do.
 

Adventageous

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You keep telling us how corrupt the NWT is Enoch.....show us some examples
#21.

Romans 16:24

Rom 16:24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

The NIV and the NWT follow the same pattern:

The words do not occur in the following corrupted texts:

Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), A (Alexandrinus), C​

Here is the vast extant literature which has the text in it:

"... D, E, F, (G*), L,
Psi
Cursives: MAJORITY (including 88, 181, 326, 330, 451, 614, 629, (630), 1241, 1877, 1881, 1984, 1985, 2492, 2495.)
Old Latin: ar, d, dem, (e*), (f*), (g*), gig, (x*); Vulgate: Clementine, tol, harl, demid;
Syriac: Harclean
(Gothic)
Chrysostom, Constantinople, 407.
Euthalius, Sulci, 458.
Theodoret, Cyrus, 466. ..." - When The KJV Departs From The "Majority" Text of Hodge & Farstad, cited by the Corrupt NKJV, by Jack Moorman, page 67

Support for the Doxology being placed at the end of Romans 16:24.

"... P61,
Aleph (Sinaiticus), B (Vaticanus), C, D, D-abs,
5, 81, 88, 256, 263, 296, 365, 436, 623, 630, 1319, 1739, 1838, 1962, 2127, 2464, others.
Old Latin: a, ar, b, d, e, f, gig, x, 2 Vulgate: am, fuld, demid, harl, tol, others.
Syriac: Pes.hitta
Coptic: Sahadic, Bohairic
Ethiopic.
Clement, Alexandria, 215.
Origen, Alexandria, Caesarea, Greek and Latin, 254.
Ambrosiaster, Latin, 354.
... The Latin mss. dol Origen, in his commentary on the Epistle claimed that confusion in the Greek mss. can be traced to the influential heretic, Marcion, who removed chapters 15 and 16 from his edition of Romans. ..." - When The KJV Departs From The "Majority" Text of Hodge & Farstad, cited by the Corrupt NKJV, by Jack Moorman, page 67

Additionally:
"... Romans 16:24 is found in the Majority of all remaining manuscripts including D, L, Psi, and it is found in the Old Latin copies ar, d, f, g, mon and o. It is also found in the Syriac Harclean and Pesh.itta as well as the Slavonic, Armenian, Ethiopic, Coptic Boharic and Georgian ancient versions, though some place it at the end of the chapter. ..." - Another King James Bible Believer
 
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RLT63

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Aunty Jane

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I wonder if Jesus had come to be born in our day, how many ‘hate sites’ would be publishing "facts and the real truth" about Jesus and his apostles. There would be news on the TV about how many times had they been denounced by those in religious authority.

Jesus had been publicly shamed as a false Messiah and his apostles were arrested many times after his death, demonstrating what "criminals" they were. The population were convinced, just as they are now. Propaganda works as we see every day how easily people’s opinions are swayed by a good spin on the news, or in a YouTube video, or good old hate sites.
History repeats as it always does when people do not learn that the devil has no new tricks....just new forms of delivery.

Since Jesus said that his true disciples would be “hated and persecuted” just as they were in the first century, (John 15:18-21).....I would see all that you have posted as ‘proof’ to some people that JW’s are the last people on earth who would have the truth.....but you are fulfilling prophesy, just as we are....only not in the way you imagine.

Are we perfect? Nope....were the apostles perfect? Nope.....what does that prove? Only that we are human, but we are “doing” what Jesus commanded his disciples to do, and we have completely separated from “Babylon the great” as per the instruction in Revelation 18:4-5.

A major judgment is coming and only Jesus knows who belongs to him.....he doesn’t read labels....he judges by faith and works......I will let him do the judging while we continue to call on people "in all the inhabited earth as a witness to all the nations", with one message as one united global brotherhood, doing what Christendom has failed to do. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20) Will it matter then what translation they used?

When Christ is backing the work, it will not fail.....and no one will be able to say..."nobody told me". There was to be one testimony offered....just one.....but not everyone wants to hear it. This is the choice we all have. But as Jesus said....these last days will be “just like the days of Noah”. (Matthew 24:37-39) The people back then stumbled over the messenger too, even ridiculed him, but they saw what he did and in the end they knew he had told the truth......but too late. History will repeat and there will be no excuses accepted.

Most people will accept a comfortable lie, rather than an uncomfortable truth. The devil relies on the fact that human nature does not change.
 
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