Help police! KJV is taking away my freedom of religion in USA reading another Bible versions!

[GRACE ambassador]

Oh lovely. At first we were talking about the King James Only people, and now we adding in Jehovah's Witnesses. Now that complicates something that is already complicated. Personally I would not have added them to this conversation. That should be an entirely different thread. A thread for cults.

Correct, The KJB, God's Word Of Truth, is a Very Distant, and Far Cry from:
.
.
.
the perverted/corrupt nwt. Amen?

 

[360watt]

The KJV 1611 is a church of England (Episcopalian/anglican) influenced Bible.

So.. where previous Bibles such as the Bishops Bible had congregation and assembly for 'ecclessia ' .. the kjv has 'church'.

Assembly and congregation have a more defined and localized meaning than 'church'.. which nowadays has several meanings.

So.. 1...a building..
2...an invisible, universal church..
3..a universal visible church..
4.. and a local assembly.

A building.. that's not an assembly or congregation. And not how scripture defines an assembly.

A universal, invisible church.. that's unassembled..uncongregated..and not visible. That's not how scripture defines an assembly.

A universal, visible assembly.. it is visible.. but not assembled. That's not how scripture defines an assembly.

A local assembly.. that is it. An assembly or congregation. That's how the 'church' should be.

Matt 16:18 is one of few occasions where 'church' hasn't been specified as one in particular. But is an assembly or congregation.

It is local because Jesus defines it as local every other time it's mentioned.

Anyway, point being.. the KJV.. like pretty much all translations..has taken liberty in a few areas to support the church of England.

The good thing is .. because the rest is translated so accurately.. it is very good for deep study.

There are other Bibles though that are equally accurate.. maybe more so.

The American standard Bible.. is from the same original manuscripts.. so is the NKJV the Bishops Bible.. and some others.

 

[Wrangler]

Oh lovely. At first we were talking about the King James Only people, and now we adding in Jehovah's Witnesses. Now that complicates something that is already complicated. Personally I would not have added them to this conversation. That should be an entirely different thread. A thread for cults.

I understand. The common denominator is many KJV-only folks is that only those who read that translation are right, etc.

 

[RLT63]

Oh lovely. At first we were talking about the King James Only people, and now we adding in Jehovah's Witnesses. Now that complicates something that is already complicated. Personally I would not have added them to this conversation. That should be an entirely different thread. A thread for cults.

Denominations that teach only they will be saved

https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/salvation-only-for-jehovahs-witnesses.php

www.christianityboard.com

 

[AlwaysOnAJourney]

In my opinion this is starting to get a little off topic. But I think, if every denomination would be honest with themselves. Each one thinks they got it "right" and everyone else has got it "wrong". It's a big problem, and one of the many reasons why I don't go to Church anymore. There is a right and and wrong. The problem is the subject. What subject are we talking about with "right verses wrong". In order to be a Christian you must believe in and put your faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. That is a must! It's nice to get all the other stuff correct too. At least as much as you can. But that is apart of your journey with the Lord, and everyone is in a different place with that. Churches actually think they got it right so they make "statements of faith" and get everyone to march to the same drum. If at any point someone says, "I was reading the Bible and I saw something that makes me feel like we don't have this one little point correct". The Church will simply show them the door, and say "you got to go find a Church that agrees with you".

 

[Wrangler]

But I think, if every denomination would be honest with themselves. Each one thinks they got it "right" and everyone else has got it "wrong". It's a big problem, and one of the many reasons why I don't go to Church anymore.

That's sad.

I go to a non-denominational church. The Pastors admit that even they do not know what all the doctrines are of all the other denominations to form an opinion of them being wrong. They add that they are led by the Spirit to spread the word in the manner they have.

I appreciate that non-competitive mindset and is reminiscent of Apostolic times.

As I recall, Peter was the Apostle to the Jews and Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. Two followers of Christ with different missions. Praise God.

 

[AlwaysOnAJourney]

That's sad.

I go to a non-denominational church. The Pastors admit that even they do not know what all the doctrines are of all the other denominations to form an opinion of them being wrong. They add that they are led by the Spirit to spread the word in the manner they have.

I appreciate that non-competitive mindset and is reminiscent of Apostolic times.

As I recall, Peter was the Apostle to the Jews and Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles. Two followers of Christ with different missions. Praise God.

Even non-denominational churches often have their "thing". For a while I tried one that believe that you had to get water baptized or you didn't go to heaven. They weren't upfront about it, you had to stay there a while, and pay close attention to the sermons. They took Acts 2:38 out of context to form their view.

I think if anyone reads the whole book of Acts, you don't come away thinking that way. Even Paul wasn't baptizing everyone. 1 Corinthians 1:14 If you need the water mixed with your repentance then Paul should of getting everyone into the water as soon as He could! That church in my opinion was kinda messed up. Think about it, if people are going to Hell because they didn't get dunked before they died, then you had better make it a huge priority, and not "beat around the bush" about it.

It was funny they called the ones who got baptized "The Immersed Believers". I am not saying that believers should or shouldn't get baptized. All I'm saying is, as far as I can tell from scripture baptism does not directly effect one's salvation. But if I wanted to be apart of that Church then I must comply with their view of Acts 2:38. They also had a special view on something in Revelation, that you had to comply with to be apart of them too.

 

[RLT63]

Even non-denominational churches often have their "thing". For a while I tried one that believe that you had to get water baptized or you didn't go to heaven. They weren't upfront about it, you had to stay there a while, and pay close attention to the sermons. They took Acts 2:38 out of context to form their view.

I think if anyone reads the whole book of Acts, you don't come away thinking that way. Even Paul wasn't baptizing everyone. 1 Corinthians 1:14 If you need the water mixed with your repentance then Paul should of getting everyone into the water as soon as He could! That church in my opinion was kinda messed up. Think about it, if people are going to Hell because they didn't get dunked before they died, then you had better make it a huge priority, and not "beat around the bush" about it.

It was funny they called the ones who got baptized "The Immersed Believers". I am not saying that believers should or shouldn't get baptized. All I'm saying is, as far as I can tell from scripture baptism does not directly effect one's salvation. But if I wanted to be apart of that Church then I must comply with their view of Acts 2:38. They also had a special view on something in Revelation, that you had to comply with to be apart of them too.

Many denominations teach that baptism is necessary for salvation. You will probably hear from some of them after that post.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Aunty Jane said “I would give you a list but I am not allowed to speak about such things here..”. The issues brought up in the links I posted are not part of the banned topics

And if I gave you a reply to every one of those issues that you gleaned from hate sites, what would it prove.....? You wouldn't believe me anyway.
If the son of God got 'bad press' what do you think he meant when he said we would receive the same reception...? (John 15:18-21)
Are you just fulfilling prophesy? We will all know soon enough.....

Do JWs believe that only they will be saved? Watchtower quotes that only Jehovah's Witnesses will be Saved

Well perhaps a slight adjustment in what that actually means to us instead of how you interpret it.....
We are not label wearers, so what we call ourselves is what we are....Witnesses for Jehovah....Israel were called Jehovah's Witnesses...did you know that? (Isaiah 43:10)
Jesus identified himself as "the Faithful Witness" (Rev 3:14).....one who bears testimony about Jehovah and his Kingdom. It isn't that we believe that only those who belong to the modern organization known as "Jehovah's Witnesses" will be saved, but all who proved themselves to be such, both past present and future.
Label wearers even in our own brotherhood, if they are not living up to their dedication and baptism, will not make the cut.

JWs aren’t the only ones who believe that way

If we believe that we alone teach the truth, when the divided churches of Christendom can't agree on much at all except their core beliefs of the trinity, immortality of the soul, and hellfire.....and then actually claim that all will be save because at least they have those things in common, are IMO, in for a rude shock since their core beliefs are all adopted from paganism.....never taught by God's son in the first place...

If the "wheat" have to be separated from the "weeds" at the "harvest time", how will Jesus judge us? He said we had to be found "doing the will of the Father" otherwise those claiming Christ as their "Lord" will find out that the Christianity they practiced was nothing of the sort. (Matt 7:21-23) It isn't that he does not claim them as his own, but that he has NEVER known them from day one.

The separation has to be very obvious since we are at 'the time of the harvest' right now....just as the fake wheat was clearly discernible from the genuine wheat only at the harvest time....look for those who are different to all the rest, because they will be out doing what Christ commanded.....(Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14) preaching one global message to a global audience, who will treat the messengers exactly like they treated Christ and his disciples (John 15:18-21)....and "just like the days of Noah". (Matt 24:37-39) The people are taking no notice of the warning.

Christendom bears little to no resemblance to the Christianity that Jesus and his apostles started.....but it was prophesied by Jesus himself that this would happen....yet Christendom's churches cannot see, or continue to deny that the foretold apostasy ever happened....they are all birthed from the same 'mother'....and the 'daughters' took most of their mother's dirty laundry with them when they left 'home'. Does that mean that the daughters are less guilty than the one who taught them the lies that they accept as truth to this day? We have less excuse now than ever....vast amounts of information are freely available to all of us, that was not easily accessed in times past. If we have never looked 'outside the box'......we will never know the truth. It's all there if we have open eyes....and more importantly, an open heart.

So even if you honestly believe that what you hold is the absolute truth, it will be of no value if Christ denies ever knowing you.
There is one truth, and only one group of people have it.....all are taught by the "faithful and wise servant" appointed by Jesus to feed his household spiritual "food" at the proper time (Matt 24:45).....these will be a hated minority...not a 'believe whatever you wish' majority.

'God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put the wise to shame'......Jehovah will reveal his truth to those in whose heart he sees the qualities he is looking for. (John 6:65)

 

[RLT63]

And if I gave you a reply to every one of those issues that you gleaned from hate sites, what would it prove.....? You wouldn't believe me anyway.
If the son of God got 'bad press' what do you think he meant when he said we would receive the same reception...?
Are you just fulfilling prophesy? We will all know soon enough.....


Well perhaps a slight adjustment in what that actually means to us instead of how you interpret it.....
We are not label wearers so what we call ourselves is what we are....Witnesses for Jehovah....Israel were called Jehovah's Witnesses...did you know that? (Isaiah 43:10)
Jesus identified himself as "the Faithful Witness" (Rev 3:14).....one who bears testimony about Jehovah and his Kingdom. It isn't that we believe that only those who belong to the organization known as "Jehovah's Witnesses" will be saved, but all who proved themselves to be such, both past present and future.
Label wearers even in our own brotherhood, if they are not living up to their dedication and baptism, will not make the cut.

If we believe that we alone teach the truth, when the divided churches of Christendom can't agree on much at all except their core beliefs of the trinity, immortality of the soul, and hellfire.....and then actually claim that all will be save because at least they have those things in common, are IMO, in for a rude shock since their core beliefs are all adopted from paganism, never taught by God's son in the first place...

If the "wheat" have to be separated from the "weeds" at the "harvest time", how will Jesus judge us? He said we had to be found "doing the will of the Father" otherwise those claiming Christ as their "Lord" will find out that the Christianity they practiced was nothing of the sort. (Matt7:21-23)

The separation has to be very obvious since we are at 'the time of the harvest' right now....just as the fake wheat was clearly discernible from the genuine wheat only at the harvest time....look for those who are different to all the rest, because they will be out doing what Christ commanded.....(Matt 28:19-20; Matt 24:14) preaching a global message to a global audience, who will treat the messengers exactly like they treated Christ and his disciples (John 15:18-21)....and "just like the days of Noah". (Matt 24:37-39) They are taking no notice of the warning.

Christendom bears little to no resemblance to the Christianity that Jesus and his apostles started.....but it was prophesied by Jesus himself that this would happen....yet Christendom's churches cannot see, or continue to deny that the foretold apostasy ever happened....they are all birthed from the same 'mother'....and the 'daughters' took most of their mother's dirty laundry with them when they left 'home'. Does that mean that the daughters are less guilty than the one who taught them the lies that they accept as truth to this day? We have less excuse now than ever....vast amounts of information are available to all of us, that was not easily accessed in times past. If we have never looked 'outside the box'......we will never know the truth. It all there if we have open eyes....and more importantly, an open heart.

So unless you honestly believe that what you hold is the absolute truth, it will be of no value if Christ denies ever knowing you.
There is one truth, and only one group of people have it.....all are taught by the "faithful and wise servant" appointed by Jesus to feed his household spiritual "food" at the proper time (Matt 24:45).....these will be a hated minority...not a 'believe whatever you wish' majority.

'God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put the wise to shame'......Jehovah will reveal his truth to those in whose heart he sees the qualities he is looking for. (John 6:65)

“There is one truth, and only one group of people have it”. Sure sounds like a cult to me. Everyone who repents and accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior will be saved. Not because they belong to a certain denomination but because they put their faith in Jesus.

 

[Wrangler]

“There is one truth, and only one group of people have it”. Sure sounds like a cult to me. Everyone who repents and accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior will be saved. Not because they belong to a certain denomination but because they put their faith in Jesus.

Ergo, Christianity is the worlds largest cult.

 

[RLT63]

Ergo, Christianity is the worlds largest cult.

Because Christians believe they have the truth? I wonder if I was born in Saudi Arabia would I be a Muslim? If my parents were JWs would I be one? I don’t know, my parents didn’t go to Church I went on my own. I found my faith on my own. I study on my own. Are you trying to tell me Christianity is a cult because Christians believe they worship the one and only God?

 

[Wrangler]

Are you trying to tell me Christianity is a cult because Christians believe they worship the one and only God?

I’m telling you fact. Look up the definition and understand how it is true. Your knee jerk reaction is only because ‘cult’ has a negative connotation.

How does that shoe fit?

 

[RLT63]

I’m telling you fact. Look up the definition and understand how it is true. Your knee jerk reaction is only because ‘cult’ has a negative connotation.

How does that shoe fit?

We use the word cult to describe groups like those that followed Jim Jones and don’t usually think of it as it is defined. It’s come to mean something else. Just like gay no longer means what it used to.

 

[Wrangler]

We use the word cult to describe groups like those that followed Jim Jones and don’t usually think of it as it is defined. It’s come to mean something else. Just like gay no longer means what it used to.

No. Despite the subjective connotation, there remains the objective denotation, to which Christianity applies.

 

[RLT63]

No. Despite the subjective connotation, there remains the objective denotation, to which Christianity applies.

You are correct but most people would disagree with you. It’s just not what we associate with a cult.

 

[RLT63]

You are correct but most people would disagree with you. It’s just not what we associate with a cult.

In Modern English, cult is a term, considered pejorative by some, for a social group that is defined by its unusual religious, spiritual, or philosophical beliefs and rituals,[1] or its common interest in a particular personality, object, or goal. This sense of the term is controversial and weakly defined, – having divergent definitions both in popular culture and academia – and has also been an ongoing source of contention among scholars across several fields of study.[2][3]: 348–356 
An older sense of the word involves a set of religious devotional practices that is conventional within its culture, is related to a particular figure, and is frequently associated with a particular place.[4] References to the "cult" of a particular Catholic saint, or references to the imperial cult of ancient Rome, for example, use the word in this sense.
While the word is still being used in its literal and original sense, a derived sense of "excessive devotion" arose in the 19th century.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#cite_note-5 Then, beginning in the 1930s, cults became an object of sociological study within the context of the study of religious behavior.[5] Since the 1940s, the Christian countercult movement has opposed some sectsand new religious movements, labeling them "cults" because of their unorthodox beliefs. Since the 1970s, the secular anti-cult movement has opposed certain groups and, as a reaction to acts of violence, frequently charged those cults with practicing mind control. Scholars and the media have disputed some of the claims and actions of anti-cult movements, leading to further public controversy.
Sociological classifications of religious movements may identify a cult as a social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices,[6] although this is often unclear.[7][8][9] Other researchers present a less-organized picture of cults, saying that they arise spontaneously around novel beliefs and practices.[10] Groups labelled as "cults" range in size from local groups with a few followers to international organizations with millions of adherents

 

[Aunty Jane]

“There is one truth, and only one group of people have it”. Sure sounds like a cult to me. Everyone who repents and accepts Jesus as Lord and Savior will be saved. Not because they belong to a certain denomination but because they put their faith in Jesus.

As I have said before...if Jesus had begun his ministry in our day, he would be deemed the leader of a cult....the rank and file religious leaders of the day would have found every excuse to disparage him, and to assassinate his character, just as the Pharisees did to Jesus. His disciples would likewise have been hated and persecuted just for believing him, and following his instructions....he was not mainstream you see.....

Jesus said he would appoint one slave to "feed" his entire household......all were to "eat" the same "food".....it wasn't a buffet.

 

[Wrangler]

You are correct but most people would disagree with you. It’s just not what we associate with a cult.

Truth doesn't depend on majority vote. Christianity is a cult and it is the world's largest cult. So, it is funny when Christian cultists say other Christian denominations are cults. They are disparaging their brother's and sister in Christ for no reason. It's just a non-value added smear that does not actually differentiate the two groups.

Although more precise, it does not carry the connotation of derogatory judgement: Denomination X has policies and doctrines I do not agree with. Are we supposed to tear each other down using negative connotations? Actions are the true test of faith. Let Scripture be our guide:
Romans 14:1 (NASB) Principles of Conscience Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not to have quarrels over opinions.

v10 But as for you, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or you as well, why do you regard your brother or sister with contempt?​

​

v 13: Therefore let’s not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this: not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s or sister’s way.​

​

Jam 4:11-12 Do not speak against one another, brothers and sisters. The one who speaks against a brother or sister, or judges his brother or sister, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it. 12 There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you, judging your neighbor?

I think it is fine to discuss what Scripture says but once there is a disagreement, I believe these verses are germaine. Cultist Christians who disparage other denominations as being cults - for not sharing the same doctrines and policies - are failing the Biblical standard.

 

[Adventageous]

You keep telling us how corrupt the NWT is Enoch.....show us some examples

#23.

Colossians 2:2-3

Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

Col 2:3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.​

The NIV and NWT follow the same pattern:

Bible Gateway passage: Colossians 2:2 - New International Version

https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/study-bible/books/colossians/2/#v51002002​

The words do not occur as in KJB, in the following corrupted texts:

"...TEXT: "knowledge of God's mystery, of Christ"
EVIDENCE: p46 B (Vaticanus)
TRANSLATIONS: ASV RSV NASV NIV NEB TEV?
RANK: B

NOTES: "knowledge of God's mystery, which is Christ"
EVIDENCE: D* four lat
TRANSLATIONS: TEV?

NOTES: "knowledge of the mystery of God, Father of Christ"
EVIDENCE: S* A C 048 four lat cop(north) some cop(south)
TRANSLATIONS: TEVn

...

NOTES: "knowledge of God's mystery"
EVIDENCE: Db H P 1881 one cop(south)
TRANSLATIONS: TEVn

OTHER: "knowledge of the mystery of Christ"
EVIDENCE: 81 1241 1739

OTHER: "knowledge of the mystery of the God and Father of Christ"
EVIDENCE: Sb Psi syr(h) ..." - Textual Variants: Colossians 1:2-4:15​

Here is the extant literature which has the text in it:

"... NOTES: "knowledge of the mystery of the God and Father and of Christ"
EVIDENCE: Dc K 104 614 630 2495 Byz Lect syr(h+) syr(p) ("God the Father")
TRANSLATIONS: KJV NIVn TEVn..." - Textual Variants: Colossians 1:2-4:15

"D 06 - Paris: Claromontanus (corrected), K 018, L 020, Byzantine Text (450-1450 A.D.)" - Colossians 2:2​

Additionally:

​

"... All the words "AND OF THE FATHER, AND OF" are found again in the Majority of all texts - του μυστηριου του θεου και πατρος και του χριστου

The other so called "oldest and best" are in hopeless confusion. Vaticanus has a nonsensical reading which is "the mystery of God, of Christ."- του μυστηριου του θεου, χριστου

Sinaiticus original had -"the mystery of God Father of Christ" - τοῦ θεοῦ πατρὸς Χριστοῦ

Then Sinaiticus was changed to read like A and C - "the mystery of the God and Father of the Christ" τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ πατρὸς τοῦ Χριστοῦ

But D original had "the mystery of God who is Christ - τοῦ θεοῦ, ὃ ἐστιν Χριστός

and then D was changed to read like the Majority, K, L, and the TR - "the mystery of God and the Father and of Christ." - τοῦ θεοῦ καὶ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ Χριστοῦ ...

... The words "the mystery of God, AND OF THE FATHER, AND OF Christ" are found in Lamsa's translation of the Syriac Pes.hitta" - Another King James Bible Believer​