Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!

[Ferris Bueller]

I once climbed up a mountain. When I was near the top, I turned and was amazed at what I saw. Stretched out for miles before me were forests, lakes, prairie, and rolling hills. The air was thin and crisp. What a view!
W'd spent hours plodding through trees and rocks, bogs and bush. Thankfully, my brother had been this way before and knew the way.
Otherwise, not only would I have not found my way, I'd have had a hard time imagining that such a vista existed or that I could've ever hoped to see it. The good Lord had made it all for me, but to see it, I had to first make the effort to get up the mountain.
This required faith.

...And a good guide.

 

[Addy]

I'm assuming you mean 'judge' as in 'call it what it is' and not 'condemn them to hell'. To an extent all of us have this job of calling out sin, but only to this extent...

"If your brother sins against you,c go and confront him privately. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’" Matthew 18:15-16
After that, it's a matter for the church leadership to deal with. We've not been given the job of church discipline and putting people out of the church. But surely some have been ordained to perform that task.

Ok... well I started this so I guess I am responsible to finish...

I'm not sure if your top comment is sarcastic... What I am talking about is a popular trend within Christianity that GAWKS at everyone around them and DECIDES who is saved and who is not = losing salvation.... These group of believers are what I call legalistic and a brood of vipers...
I am describing my family here.... and several within these forums who do nothing but CONDEMN OSAS... as if those who believe in eternal security are bottomless SIN SUCKERS.

Proper biblical correction within the church is something that I agree does not seem to happen anymore... or if it does... not very often... and YES... this has become a problem.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you think you are better than the drunk down the street...

I am better than the drunk down the street. By God's grace I am in fact better than the drunk down the street. I do not get drunk. I will not minimize what is factually true about me to placate and soothe someone who has yet to experience the grace that I have experienced. My responsibility is to not look down on those who have yet to walk in God's grace, not minimize the grace I have received.

Oh, that picnic thing. Sorry, lol.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'm not sure if your top comment is sarcastic.

No, I wasn't being sarcastic.
To judge can mean one of two things. It can mean to call a spade a spade, i.e. "you smashed my glass coffee table." Or it can mean to condemn a person, i.e. "you are going to hell because you smashed my coffee table." Every person alive can make the first kind of judgment—identifying sin for what it is. It's the condemning kind of judging that we are not to do—passing sentence for the sin they have committed. But we can consider someone to be in a lost state by how they act. Not to condemn them, but to be wary of them the way we are supposed to be.

 

[Addy]

I am better than the drunk down the street. By God's grace I am in fact better than the drunk down the street. I do not get drunk. I will not minimize what is factually true about me to placate and soothe someone who has yet to experience the grace that I have experienced. My responsibility is to not look down on those who have yet to walk in God's grace, not minimize the grace I have received.

I am not better than that drunk... that mindset keeps me humble... and in proper focus... I do not drink either... I live a celibate single life filled with much peace and joy. I am NOT minimizing what is factually true about me... I am standing on equal ground to all man-kind.

You have just hit the nail on the head regarding PRIDE... it makes people falsely believe they are better than.

I am still on for the picnic... LOL I think you and I could surely break bread together. I don't think I have disrespected you here... We have had an honest conversation is all.

 

[Truman]

@Truman the Levite I think from Scripture that sanctification is both positional - Paul addresses believers in the Lord Jesus Christ as saints (those who are sanctified) - and by way of day to day condition: the daily walk with the Lord.

We have a sanctification gift card, given to us when we first believe. We don't spend it all at once but as the Lord leads. This process is what I call walking out the daily cross. AKA - progressive sanctification.
This is not re-crucifying Christ, it is not adding to His finished work of atonement on the cross, nor is it unbelief. Rather, it is fleshing out what He bled and died for, in us.

 

[Addy]

To judge can mean one of two things. It can mean to call a spade a spade, i.e. "you smashed my glass coffee table." Or it can mean to condemn a person, i.e. "you are going to hell because you smashed my coffee table." Every person alive can make the first kind of judgment—identifying sin for what it is. It's the condemning kind of judging that we are not to do—passing sentence for the sin they have committed. But we can consider someone to be in a lost state by how they act. Not to condemn them, but to be wary of them the way we are supposed to be.

This sounds reasonable to me... LOL ... Someone in a lost state... for me not so much to be wary of... but rather to pray for. Anyways... my beef is with those who would decide someone else's state of salvation.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

These group of believers are what I call legalistic and a brood of vipers.

You have to be careful because simply calling sin 'sin' is not the definition of legalism. And two, you have to be careful to not pass judgement on them. You may consider them lost as far as discernment goes, but you and I can not pass that judgment on them. Only the Judge of all the world can make that final determination. And he will at the proper time. If you did, you would be doing what you are saying they are wrongfully doing to you.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

my beef is with those who would decide someone else's state of salvation.

Exactly! I agree. And we have to be careful to not do that to those who are doing that to us.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Someone in a lost state... for me not so much to be wary of... but rather to pray for.

Sure, you can pray for them. But I think John's reason for explaining to the church about how to identify not born again people is for the purpose of safeguarding ourselves and the church against the leaven of their ruinous teachings and ways.

 

[Truman]

...And a good guide.

My brother had lived in the area, which was a complete wilderness, grizzly bears included, with the Stoney Indians for more than a year, so he knew his way around.
As he pointed out the fresh Grizzly poop that was on the ground all around us, he said, "Most people won't come back here without guns." We didn't have any! My brother was like my dad; he seemed to delight in scaring me! Lol

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I need to ask to make sure I know what to fix in your error. What exactly and specifically (with conditions) are you calling "living in sin"?

Purposely and willingly and unrepentantly living a habitual sinful lifestyle. You know, the mindset of life you led before you got born again.

 

[Addy]

Sure, you can pray for them. But I think John's reason for explaining to the church about how to identify not born again people is for the purpose of safeguarding ourselves and the church against the leaven of their ruinous teachings and ways.

It's your wording of things Ferris.... we are good to go then BOOM.... you sneak those words in there... LOL YOU have NO right to decide who is and is NOT born again.... the inspecting of fruit is indeed for our own protection... but that is as far as it goes... NONE of your business... pray for the person and let God deal with them... without calling them NON believers... perhaps they are being disobedient... or struggling...

Anyways....I am truly done... STOP quoting me now... LOL

 

[Ferris Bueller]

My brother had lived in the area, which was a complete wilderness, grizzly bears included, with the Stoney Indians for more than a year, so he knew his way around.
As he pointed out the fresh Grizzly poop that was on the ground all around us, he said, "Most people won't come back here without guns." We didn't have any! My brother was like my dad; he seemed to delight in scaring me! Lol

My sister and her husband live in the middle of nowhere in Alaska. You do not so much as go to the bathroom without taking a gun with you.

 

[Addy]

fresh Grizzly poop

What??? As opposed to STALE Grizzly poop??? HAHAHAHAHA

 

[Ferris Bueller]

YOU have NO right to decide who is and is NOT born again.... the inspecting of fruit is indeed for our own protection... but that is as far as it goes.

And that's all I've been saying. I am free to consider a person a genuine Christian or not. In fact, I think it's my responsibility to do that. What I can't do is pass judgment on them like a judge can do. But I can certainly see for myself if a person is guilty of living in sin.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

pray for the person and let God deal with them... without calling them NON believers... perhaps they are being disobedient... or struggling...

I can CONSIDER them an unbeliever. Whether or not they truly are an unbeliever is a matter for God to establish, not me.

 

[Truman]

My sister and her husband live in the middle of nowhere in Alaska. You do not so much as go to the bathroom without taking a gun with you.

So what is it they shoot? Lol

 

[Truman]

What??? As opposed to STALE Grizzly poop??? HAHAHAHAHA

When there's steam rising off of it, be afraid...be very afraid! Lol

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Both points are fundamentally and fatally flawed and demonstrate a wholly defective understanding of salvation.

#1 is Calvinist theology. #2 is Arminian theology. Minus the details of both, of course.

#3 is Hypergrace/ Freegrace theology and is so easily dismissed by plain scripture it's hard to believe so many in the church are letting their ears be tickled by it. It's based on a fundamental ignorance of scripture. That is the condition of the church these days—extremely ignorant of scripture and dependent on so-called teachers to tell them what's in scripture and what it means.