Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Answer the question:
Do you believe that the just God preordained the Israelites and their children to punishment because nobody can keep the law?
Here is what it all comes down to—- and you’d better get it right!
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Answer the question:
Do you believe that the just God preordained the Israelites and their children to punishment because nobody can keep the law?
Concerning the Law given in covenant to Israel through Moses, it is not about whether God preordained the Israelites and their children to punishment or whatever. The Law was given by God to them with good reason and purpose.
Tong
R4256
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
Do you believe that nobody can keep God’s law?
If so, you think God did this with good reason and purpose?!
To threaten his people with disease and murder and captivity for failing to obey a law that was unobeyable?
<<<Do you believe that nobody can keep God’s law?>>>
Not with one’s own ability. Besides, God requires perfect observance no less. For it is written in scriptures “For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.”.
<<<If so, you think God did this with good reason and purpose?!>>>
Yes, I think God gave the Law because He had good reason and purpose. In fact, Scriptures tells us so.
<<<To threaten his people with disease and murder and captivity for failing to obey a law that was unobeyable?>>>
See my answer above on your first question.
Also, the giving of the priesthood and the laws pertaining to the atonement for sin, is definitely a strong indication that they will be guilty of trespassing the Law.
The commandments contained in the Law are not “unobeyable”. However, the requirement of faithful perfect observance is the matter.
Tong
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Christ, indeed has the authority to Damn anyone and everyone.....His Word declares that if you obey Him by Believing the Gospel Of 1Cor15:1-4, He will IMPUTE His Righteousness on your Heavenly Account and He will NEVER damn you......if “ obedience” Is your thing, the Bible talks about “ the obedience of the Gospel.....best concentrate on THAT Obedience for your Salvation..... on your own, even your BEST Obedience will never reach Perfection......THAT is the Standard if you think you can make it to Heaven on the basis of your sincere but pitiful PERFORMANCE .....
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I don’t have the wisdom or the guts to be “ God’s Critic”......apparently YOU do......if the day ever comes that I can speak and “ Nothing Becomes Everything”, then I might join you .....
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
Here ya go again...so soon you forget. See notes 1, 8, 10, and 11,
It is a sad thing that we are even having this discussion....Such distain for being good and doing good and obeying Christ. If it is not anti-Christian, what would be? Can you imagine Christ and Apostles preaching this? Christ saves us and from their we are to be good and do good and obey Him. What is the alternative? Why do you call me Lord Lord and not do what I say. You have been spoon feed the scriptures, but you just do not learn the truth.
1..No one is saying that being good and doing good has anything do with being initially saved, everyone agrees that, that is through Christ.
2..No one here is saying that being good and doing good justifies us, it all about the biblical requirement to be obedience to Christ.
3..No one is saying that good deeds is what gets you to heaven.
4..I am saying that being good and doing good is what Christians are repeatedly told to do. Being good and doing good is obedience to Christ. I mean really, what is the alternative that is being proposed here by some.
5..I am saying that sinful lifestyles can lead to hell...whether they believe in Christ or not.
6..I am not saying that sinful lifestyles cannot be forgiven. Even towards the end someone that has committed the worst of horrible sins or a sinful lifestyle can repent and be forgiven. That is all depends on sincerity and Christ will know the intentions and truths of the heart and will judge according. But that is Christ's choice to send that Christian to heaven or hell. I do contend that a change of heart at the last minute and expecting forgiveness is very risky, because, could someone like Hitler or serial killers change their character in that last few moments of their life? Not saying I know, but I would debate it.
7..I am saying that repentance is required to be initially saved. That repentance is not only acknowledging that you have sinned but a commitment to obey and be good and do good....the best you can. Salvation was not designed for perfection. Then after one is saved and commits sins, that repentance is required to get those sins forgiven. Again a commitment not to keep doing the same sin over and over again. It is not wrong for Christ to expect us to learn from our mistakes...we maybe slow learners but...
8..No one here is saying that you have to be perfect to go to heaven.
9..Then again, heaven is not going to be full of evildoers.
10..No one is saying that being good and doing good is salvation. It is obedience to Christ.
11..And the Bible says over and over again that we should obey Christ and our deeds will be judged, come Judgment Day.
12..Alternatively sins can lead to hell, particularly lifestyle sins because you cannot repent for something you intend to do or even continue to do. You cannot play Christ for a fool. You cannot con Christ, he know the heart and the intent.
13..I do contend that your average Christian will show up on Judgment Day and pass with flying colors.
14..In regard to sins, what is being discussed here is mostly lifestyle sins.
15..No one is saying that there is a biblical requirement to ask forgiveness for every sin or to remember every sin. Just ask forgiveness in one of your daily prayers.
Michiah-Imla
Well-Known Member
This is absolutely ridiculous.
I can’t believe that you would accept a doctrine that has God committing an unjust act of giving his people laws and commandments HE KNEW they couldn’t keep and then punishing them for not keeping an un-keepable law.
Common sense alone should wake you up to the fact that you are in grave error.
Obey your Savior!
“sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.” (John 5:14)
Otherwise:
“why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?” (Luke 6:46)
“he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.” (Luke 6:49)
Many Christians are building their faith on falsehoods. A grave danger.
@Michiah-Imla .... I see you're in your usual SUNSHINE disposition mode... LOL
Here we go again...Its a Sad thing indeed that I have to keep repeating my position.....I have no “ disdain” for being good or doing good.....it’s why God created us.....to do good and “ carry the burdens of others”.....I just know that the Bible empathizes that when it comes to Salvation, “ It is NOT by Works Of Righteousness that we have done....” Its our Faith in the Finished Work Of The Cross ...Plus NOTHING—- for * SALVATION* !!! I am talking about NOTHING ELSE here!
What do you base that conclusion on, BB?
1Cor 15:1-4..... there’s more.....( my computer ink barrel is at an Extremely low level....I must conserve.... lol)
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
I hear this term used a lot, BB. If the work of atonement was finished at the Cross, does that mean Christ's resurrection, ascension, and High Priestly ministry in the Heavenly Temple are unnecessary?
12..Alternatively sins can lead to hell
The Bible says that Jesus died for ALL of my sins.....if that is true, what sins would be left for me to be damned by....
Chastisement for sins? Certainly. Damnation for sins? Impossible. Unless God is a liar . I Trust that God will keep His Word—- “ I will REMEMBER your sins NO MORE!” Amazing Grace....Why do so many reject it? Could it be that they dont understand it because they have never received it? That would be a scary thought, wouldn’t it , because it is by GRACE that God Saves.....
The Bible says that Jesus died for ALL of my sins.....if that is true, what sins would be left for me to be damned by....
Chastisement for sins? Certainly. Damnation for sins? Impossible. Unless God is a liar . I Trust that God will keep His Word—- “ I will REMEMBER your sins NO MORE!” Amazing Grace....Why do so many reject it? Could it be that they dont understand it because they have never received it? That would be a scary thought, wouldn’t it , because it is by GRACE that God Saves.....
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I hear this term used a lot, BB. If the work of atonement was finished at the Cross, does that mean Christ's resurrection, ascension, and High Priestly ministry in the Heavenly Temple are unnecessary?
Paul said That if Christ were not resurrected.....we are ALL without hope and lost, so I would say that it is pretty important....
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
But what if a person seeks to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God rather than focusing on a specific theme that is widely taught? There is more to the Bible than a narrow, sectarian view of the Gospel, isn't there? Just asking.
On the road to Emmaus, the despondent followers of Jesus got quite a lengthy Bible Study from Christ, all from the Old Testament, didn't they?
But what if a person seeks to live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God rather than focusing on a specific theme that is widely taught? There is more to the Bible than a narrow, sectarian view of the Gospel, isn't there? Just asking.
On the road to Emmaus, the despondent followers of Jesus got quite a lengthy Bible Study from Christ, all from the Old Testament, didn't they?
There is MUCH more to the Bible than the Gospel Of 1cor15:1-4– by we must put first things first....Let’s make sure that we are SAVED , and then we can proceed to the other things....2 Peter1:3-15 declares that we should add to our Faith seven things......”Virtue, knowledge,self control,perseverance, godliness, kindness and brotherly love....”
As good and wise and vital as these things are, We are not going to be judged for these additions .....Paul said that when we stand before God we are going to be JUDGED by “ His Gospel” .....Believers need a Starting Point and an Anchor to initiate and stay grounded in their Faith......John 3:16 is a great anchor—— 1cor15:1-4 May be even better! We are not going to judged by John 3:16—- According to Jesus “Secretary” Paul, we will be judged on whether or+not we Believed in His Gospel—- Given to Him by Jesus personally......Believe THAT and God will give you His Spirit....the remaining things of importance will come to pass as God Transforms you from the inside out....yep—- it’s that “ inside of the cup” thing.....only God can clean it....
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Ephesians 6
13Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
In this famous passage, faith seems to take priority over other elements that are often pushed to the front by most Christians. It even says why faith should have priority.
Lesson 01 – Lessons on Faith
13Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 14Stand therefore, having girded your waist with truth, having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15and having shod your feet with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 16above all, taking the shield of faith with which you will be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one. 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God;
In this famous passage, faith seems to take priority over other elements that are often pushed to the front by most Christians. It even says why faith should have priority.
Lesson 01 – Lessons on Faith
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