Heresy, Heretics, and Hurt feelings...oh my

[DNB]

I see your point but disagree (probably because of a difference in backgrounds).

I cannot charatize heresies as venial or mortal (a heretic has to do with his or her relationship to accepted belief, not to God).

ok, ...still confused.
Thanks!

 

[Ezra]

Eternal Security is heresy; the notion that one is still saved after committing willful sin without repentance is not Biblical. A notorious modern-day false teacher of this damnable doctrine is Charles Stanley. Here are his own words.

i am getting in on this. the doctrine of eternal security has created more division more fire storm than any thing. there is a security in our salvation. you can be confident that no man can pluck us out of the fathers hand.. we can know that we have eternal life.we can also know gOD IS ABLE TO keep us from falling.. anyone thinks they can live how they want in sin .there is a good chance they was never saved to start with . southern baptist are a good group. i am not southern baptist, i did pastor a southern baptist once till i mentioned foot washing . that ended that. my suggestion instead of trying to prove it wrong and you right.. work out your own salvation with fear and trembling . focus on the lost . might i add charles stanley is nor more A notorious modern-day false teacher of this damnable doctrine. than yours talk about division your doing a fine job. you want to call something damnable head of purgatory .

 

[Ezra]

This of course depends on the heresy.

what amazes me is its always the other person guilty of heresy ..i use to get this in carm.

 

[Ezra]

We are all heretics.... In the eyes of some other Christian denomination.

aint that the truth

 

[Enoch111]

There seems to be confusion regarding the difference between heresy and a heretic.

Why would there be a *difference* between a heresy and an heretic, since heretics hold to and promote heresies, otherwise they would not be called heretic.

So let's turn to Scripture to see what a heretic is and how Christians should deal with heretics within the local church.

A man that is an heretick [αἱρετικὸν (hairetikon)] after the first and second admonition reject; Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself. (Titus 3:10,11)

So let's examine this passage and see what it teaches:

1. Fundamental meaning of heretic
Strong's Concordance
hairetikos: causing division
Original Word: αἱρετικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: hairetikos
Phonetic Spelling: (hahee-ret-ee-kos')
Definition: causing division
Usage: disposed to form sects, sectarian, heretical, factious.

HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 141 hairetikós (an adjective, derived from 138/hairéomai, "to choose, have a distinctive opinion") – a factious person, specializing in half-truths and misimpressions "to win others over" to their personal opinion (misguided zeal) – while creating harmful divisions (used only in Tit 3:10). See 139 (hairesis).

2. Response to an heretic
...after the first and second admonition reject...
This is obviously within the setting of a local assembly. The elders, who are responsible for the spiritual welfare of the flock, would speak to the heretic and admonish him. The meaning of nouthesia is warning and spiritual counsel. Which means that they would tell this man (or woman) to cease and desist from promoting his false doctrine, which is divisive. But after two warnings he is to be cast out of fellowship (rejected as a member of that church, thus shunned and avoided).

3. Spiritual condition of an heretic
...knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.
(a) He is subverted ( ekstrephó) -- corrupted, perverted, changed for the worse
(b) He sinneth -- heresy is sin to be repented of
(c) He is self-condemned -- since he has chosen lies instead of God's truth, he has condemned himself

The difference should be obvious. A heresy is not always a fundamental departure from established or orthodox doctrine. But a heretic believes contrary to the fundamental tenets of a religion he claims to belong to.

This is purely nonsensical in view of what we see in the above passage. If a heresy were not a fundamental departure from established doctrine, then there would be no need to dis-fellowship the heretic. And we are not talking about *a religion* but Bible Christianity. Not Hinduism or Islam.

 

[Enoch111]

Eternal Security is heresy

Condemning eternal security is heresy. And claiming that it is a license to sin is also heresy.

 

[Willie T]

It is confusing, but not contradictory. It is the language (words have meaning).

I am saying that one can believe a doctrine that is rejected by the group to which he belongs (a heresy) without himself being rejected by the group he belongs for holding that belief (a heretic). This depends on the group, I suppose.

For example, most Christians (historically) would consider the belief that God separated from Christ as a heresy. Theologically the dualism in that idea is too great a dichotomy with the nature of Christ to logically coexist with orthodox faith. But people holding the idea may do so without being a heretic (in terms of Christianity in general).

This is very true. The church where we attend, solidly and almost to a man, believes in the "Surprise" Rapture as the planned and intended means of escaping from this world that Satan owns.
I do not. And they all know I do not.
I believe in personal "healing" by the "laying on of hands" and verbal agreement with God.
They do not. They just pray for whatever happens, without EXPECTANTLY asking God for anything exceptionally positive in the outcome.
Yet, they accept me there, and even listen to some of what I am sure they must consider "the ravings of a madman."
(And no one has yet called me a Heretic…. at least not in my hearing. LOL)

 

[Ezra]

Condemning eternal security is heresy. And claiming that it is a license to sin is also heresy.

your right

 

[Willie T]

This whole "Heresy" mess is simple to see.

"As a member of _________ church, I am positive we have correctly interpreted God's intended word."
"As a member of _________ church, you are positive you have correctly interpreted God's intended word."

"Therefore, that makes anyone who does not have God's word correctly interpreted as we have, Heretics."

"So, I know you are a Heretic, and you know I am a Heretic"...………… And God sits and shakes His head because both of us are probably wrong.

 

[Ezra]

This whole "Heresy" mess is simple to see.

"As a member of _________ church, I am positive we have correctly interpreted God's intended word."
"As a member of _________ church, you are positive you have correctly interpreted God's intended word."

"Therefore, that makes anyone who does not have God's word correctly interpreted as we have, Heretics."

"So, I know you are a Heretic, and you know I am a Heretic"...………… And God sits and shakes His head because both of us are probably wrong.

exactly i find it very unchrist like to attack charles stanley who hasbeen preaching for many years all because he believes in eternal security. nail someone like joel olsteen fair game . when attacking stanley your going against God anointed and a elder/father in the Lord

 

[mjrhealth]

Condemning eternal security is heresy. And claiming that it is a license to sin is also heresy.

Im not so sure about Heresy, teh religious love to throw that word around, more like ignorance. If we are all secure in Christ, than we dont need church and if we dont need church, we dont need religion, than so many pastors would have no jobs. this free gift mankind is offered was made slave labour by teh religious.

 

[reformed1689]

Im not so sure about Heresy, teh religious love to throw that word around, more like ignorance. If we are all secure in Christ, than we dont need church and if we dont need church, we dont need religion, than so many pastors would have no jobs. this free gift mankind is offered was made slave labour by teh religious.

This is directly against Scripture and is, in fact, heresy.

 

[John Caldwell]

The thing is we deal with doctrine rather than persons.

For example - @David Taylor could rightly argue my view of the Trinity (that the Father and Son are "inseparable" and God did not separate from Christ) is contrary to Reformed Theology (and in that context a heresy). But this deals with doctrine - not me (I am not Reformed).

I could can argue the idea of God separating from Christ is a heresy because the "orthodox Christian" definition of the Trinity is that the persons are "inseparable".

 

[Ezra]

Im not so sure about Heresy, teh religious love to throw that word around, more like ignorance. If we are all secure in Christ, than we dont need church and if we dont need church, we dont need religion, than so many pastors would have no jobs. this free gift mankind is offered was made slave labour by teh religious.

Ephesians 4:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: the reason we must attend

 

[Waiting on him]

Ephesians 4:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: the reason we must attend

The wife and I would love to find a church to attend, but we can’t stomach all the heretics.

 

[mjrhealth]

Ephesians 4:11-13 King James Version (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: the reason we must attend

All man needs is Christ, you can spend all your life in church studying the bible and never be saved,
whats teh BIBLE say

Act_2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

God Jesus dont need them, the blind and religious do. To much bible too much church not enough time with Christ, teh Word of God who is teh truth and in whom there is no lie. And someone else will provide a quote to keep themselves from Him, teh religious are good at that.

Mat_19:14 But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven.

religion doesnt need Christ.

 

[Ezra]

The wife and I would love to find a church to attend, but we can’t stomach all the heretics.

if you find a perfect church and start attending it will no longer be perfect your there. i dont say that to be snide.but to tell you the body of christ is composed of those who have been saved. there not perfect not totally correct in bible belief . church is not a museum for saints..but a hospitial because we all have problems and need a touch of the master hand

 

[historyb]

As a Baptist I would say "infant baptism" is a heresy. Baptist doctrine holds that the only baptism is "believer's baptism" and not for salvation.

As another example I would say as a Liturgical Christian "believer's baptism" is heresy. We all hold other in heresy and in many cases heretical. Most here consider me a heretic here because I am a Liturgical Christian and I do not believe going by the Bible alone, Sola Scriptura, etc.

 

[Ezra]

As another example I would say as a Liturgical Christian "believer's baptism" is heresy. We all hold other in heresy and in many cases heretical. Most here consider me a heretic here because I am a Liturgical Christian and I do not believe going by the Bible alone, Sola Scriptura, etc.

how can you trust any thing else ..certainly there are comments written by others backed by scripture .to reject solo scripture is crazy.. this is where your problem comes from.. not your denom

 

[historyb]

how can you trust any thing else ..certainly there are comments written by others backed by scripture .to reject solo scripture is crazy.. this is where your problem comes from.. not your denom

I totally, absolutely reject solo scriptura as a man made heresy of the highest level. I understand Sola Scriptura as Luther intended but only man made solo scriptura so they can make up wild doctrines that at best heretical and at worst pagan